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Thread: 18.7.3 Live - Discussion

  1. #1

    18.7.3 Live - Discussion

    This is what’s happening today:
    18.7.0 Update Release Notes


    (Test live Advy thread: Patch Notes: 18.7.0. 20 - 24 [Testlive])


    A lot will change and some you’ll like, some you won’t and somethings might be broken or not work as intended. Therefore I’ve created two separate threads.


    1. [This thread] Discussing this new Patch live Adventurer related stuff.
    2. [The other thread] For all bugs, suggestions and other problems regarding 18.7.0.

    18-7-0-Live-Bugs-Suggestions-and-other-Problems



    GL all
    Last edited by Zwelgje; Apr 21st, 2015 at 11:58:17.

  2. #2
    Some things have not been changed. Below however you’ll find the most important things that did change.

    Profession Nano Changes: Adventurer
    Adventurer morph buffs have been updated to increase the buff values with the adventurer's level. Morph nanos will become self buffs only for the adventurer.
    • The Wolf Morph will increase Dodge, Duck, Evade , Run Speed and Perception and be in the Runspeed Buffs, Perception Buff and Major Evasion Buffs nano lines.
      • Adventurers will get a short term high value Add all Def buff which can only be used in wolf form.


    • The Sabretooth Morph will increase all damage types, Add all off and be in the Damage buff and aao buff nano lines.
      • Adventurers will get a short term high value damage add/ Add all off/init buff which can only be used in sabre form.


    • The Pit lizard buff will increase AC, Max Health and Aggressiveness. It will be in the AC Buff and HP Buff nanolines.
      • Adventurers will get a short term high value damage shield buff which can only be used in pit lizard form.
      • Adventurers will get an AOE taunt dot nano to execute when in the form of a Pit Lizard.
      • Adventurers will get a taunt nano to execute when in the form of a Pit Lizard.


    • The Tree is still a tree and has kept its Root, Snare and Stun resist. Old team buff has been removed and replaced by a slightly different version (See Morph Aura’s)


    • The Leet/Shadowleet Morph will increase Concealment, Critical Increase and Run Speed and be in the Runspeed Buffs, Concealment Buff and Critical Increase Buff nanolines.
      • Adventurers will get a short term high value critical increase buff which can only be used in leet form
      • Adventurer mezz is now a proper mezz nano and can be used when in the leet form.


    • The Reet Morph will increase your Dodge, Duck, Evade and Run Speed and be in the Vehicle nano line.


    Morph Aura’s:
    Added new team Aura’s, based on the Morph of the Adventurer:
    • Wolf auras affect: AAD, RunSpeed, and Perception
    • Sabretooth auras affect: AAO and +damage
    • Dragon auras affect: AC, health, and adds 1% reflect
    • Tree auras affect: HealEff, NanoDamage, and HealDelta
    • Leet auras affect: CritMod, Concealment, and RunSpeed


    Morph Related Other Nano’s:
    • Any morph can be casted into another one; ending a morph will terminate nanos that were associated with that morph
    • Added "A Return to Form" - removes any Adv morphs on the player
    • Adventurers can only use the morph heal nano formula when in the pit lizard form.
    • Lowered requirements for Poisonous Bite
    • The first 2 Tree morphs can be cast a lower levels


    General nano’s and other changes:
    • Adventurer TEAM Eagle Eye buff should now increase the target's Aimed Shot skill by 165 points.
    • Adventurer Backstabber-line has been opened for Adventurers and will increase the targets Sneak attack skill up to 70 and self up to 150 points.
    • Adventurer nukes has been removed.
    • Adventurer "pull nano" / "Proximity Range Debuff" can only be executed on targets that have not engaged in combat. This nano will now taunt the npc it is cast on and make sure the npc doesn't tell his friends that he is being attacked. NPCs within 10-20 meters of this npc will get mezzed for 5 seconds to make sure they do not attack the adventurer or the adventurer's team. At the end of the mezz nano, the npc will get his cry for help and proximity range reduced so that he will not aggro any players standing really close, and if the npc does aggo a player, he will not be able to tell his friends unless the friends stand extremely close.


    Healing Nano’s
    • Nano Invocation of the Phoenix will completely heal the target, and not cause massive hate


    Adventurer Light Bulb/ Tower:
    • Has it’s SL req removed and can now be used on RK and indoors.
    Last edited by Zwelgje; Apr 22nd, 2015 at 13:00:09. Reason: TEAM

  3. #3
    Profession Perk Changes

    • Adventurer
      • Added +30 1HE skill to the Shadowstalker perkline
      • Added a snare to perk "Shadow Killer"
      • Shadow Stab can be executed from any side of the target
      • Ferocity of Nature perks should be possible to be executed from any morphed form
      • Gutting Blow will not require Freak Strength perks to be running


    Research Proc Changes

    • Adventurer
      • Flaming Hit: Renamed to "Ferocious Hits," changed to Type 1, adds +15 damage.
      • Basic Dressing: Changed to type 2
      • Machete Slice: Changed to type 2
      • Durable Bandages: Renamed to "Self Preservation," changed to type 1, triggers defensively, changed to a damage shield.
      • Charring Blow: Changed to type 2
      • Machete Flurry: Increased +damage

  4. #4
    Are you going to put pressure on michi to address the loss of team evades for all TL's of advy or am I going alone?

  5. #5
    about wolf defence buff

    since when advs use PM ? Your Psychological Modifications is required to be at least 1444! this is totally wrong

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Are you going to put pressure on michi to address the loss of team evades for all TL's of advy or am I going alone?
    Yes and no.

    First, I like that we have gotten an aura. We've even gotten multiple aura's. That was a big gain over loosing it completely. But I also agree that the Aura buff's as they currently are will also reduce the flexibility of the Adventurer again. You'll have to cast other stuff when morphing/ switching. This makes the toolset in general slower again. And the quickness in adapting to a situation was the biggest gain we've gotten in decades! (This is the Wow factor for Adventurers, and the Agents are jealous... )

    On top of that I'm still not sure if the loss on evades is that big a deal. As a trade-off Adventurers have gotten more and more versatile aura's in return to aid the team.

    I'll first await more reactions on this (or PM me if you have suggestions on the rework of the Wolf aura version).

  7. #7
    TBH with the morph reqs - I'd like to see all of them at the same range as the current reqs for the wolf. (1843 BM/MM and 1834 SI) What I don't want to see is advs going for morph swaps mid fight. I have an adv myself and I really like a lot of the changes - but the reqs on wolf are the same as they were before so I don't understand why they need to be reduced now. It would make more sense to me if all the highest morphs had the same reqs as the highest wolf now. I mean I have to swap 2 items to self buff wolf... its not THAT bad lol. Did you never log into test and realize the wolf reqs are the same lol? TBH if that was a concern it should have been brought up quite some time ago IMO.

    What I don't want to see is people starting with say leet morph - throwing crit buff and throwing alpha - if alpha fails remove leet and go to wolf or dragon for sustain until you can recast the crit buff. Once you can recast drop morph - releeet - crit buff - alpha again.

    I'm not saying this will happen - but it would definitely open the door for it. I think it should be you pick a morph for the fight your up against and you stick to it - and not use a assortment of morphs in a single fight.

    I guess it comes down to - how "on the fly" do you really want the morphs to be and I guess I missed the memo stating that was the goal here? (which is very possible) It seems like by wanting them to be used "on the fly" is another way to ask for it to be castable in fight without coming right out and saying it.... Is swapping 1-2 items really that hard and how is it any different than it was before? I was under the impression that the idea was to make the other morphs more viable... not make the current ones easier to use. :P
    Last edited by Krustyleet87; Apr 22nd, 2015 at 19:39:23.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Krustyleet87 View Post
    What I don't want to see is advs going for morph swaps mid fight.
    But that's the whole point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krustyleet87 View Post
    I was under the impression that the idea was to make the other morphs more viable... not make the current ones easier to use. :P
    Why not both?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    But that's the whole point.



    Why not both?
    Yea I understand thats the point of the OP's request - but I'm not sold that the purpose behind redoing the morphs was to provide that. Show me where michi or someone else has said they wanted to adjust the morphs so advs could freely swap between morphs and make use of all the short buffs that each morph can have in one fight and I'll let up on it.

    I think people making the request to have a change made should need to provide good reason why it should be done and I don't feel wanting reqs lowered for the soul purpose of being able to cast them in your pvp gear is justified. People lived with these reqs for quite some time when wolf was the most used morph - now that there are other options people all the sudden feel that the reqs are to high now? I also find it hard to believe that the adv professional didn't log into test and take a look at this stuff before it hits live and hadn't talked this over with mich and others... and if it was maybe there is a reason things stayed like they did?

    Anyway I realized I posted this in the wrong thread - Im going to copy my original response to the correct one and let it go from there.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Krustyleet87 View Post
    Yea I understand thats the point of the OP's request - but I'm not sold that the purpose behind redoing the morphs was to provide that. Show me where michi or someone else has said they wanted to adjust the morphs so advs could freely swap between morphs and make use of all the short buffs that each morph can have in one fight and I'll let up on it. I think people making the request to have a change made should need to provide good reason why it should be done and I don't feel wanting reqs lowered for the soul purpose of being able to cast them in your pvp gear is justified. People lived with these reqs for quite some time when wolf was the most used morph - now that there are other options people all the sudden feel that the reqs are to high now? I also find it hard to believe that the adv professional didn't log into test and take a look at this stuff before it hits live and hadn't talked this over with mich and others... and if it was maybe there is a reason things stayed like they did? Anyway I realized I posted this in the wrong thread - Im going to copy my original response to the correct one and let it go from there.
    The request was made that morphs should be able to be casted one over the other. Being able to switch on the fly was intentional and could for now be considered a part of the Adventurer toolset. Only the top Wolf Morph is out of line within that scope and might need adjustment. That, before this patch, we've lived with that high req. was only because Wolf was the only Morph we played with // We only had to buff once...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    A lot of text: Any morph can be casted into another one; ending a morph will terminate nanos that were associated with that morph.
    And it's true, we can, but it's far from practical atm.
    Casting that last Wolf morph is just possible with at least +/- an extra 200 point of nano skills (while using full alphas and fully IP the appropriate skills) to cast.. So in full PvP gear, with cm or the best Umbral , you won't cut it. That last Wolf should also not only be usable for the 220 endgame Adventurer that like to PvP, but for everyone from TL7 and up. Using the better Morphs is the reward of being a paid player. And therefore it might even be fair to say that it should be in line with req for that lvl around the starting of TL 7. (even the last Dragon is out of reach for early TL7, I might even plead for to adjusted all the higher Morph version to be adjusted to that scope..)

    But I think the morph itself isn't your main issue, but: the ability to rotate the short buffs is. Well, with or without that last Wolf we are able to so, just use the lower version of the Morph. But in honesty, only 2 Booster buffs are viable for PvP, (1ste = Leet // Sure crit , 2de = Cat // AR and DD). On top of that, rotating Morphs will loose the Aura's and those are slow to cast. Casting the morph and Booster buff will eat time from your ability to heal. And it's just a big hassle to swap back and forth, managing all that will become a skill on its own...
    Last edited by Zwelgje; Apr 22nd, 2015 at 23:49:53.

  11. #11
    Personal opinion - which I'm actually a bit hesitant to give, as I don't play Adv, and so don't have a stake in this.

    The team buff aura each morph allows should be part of the morph nano and cast automatically when the morph nano is cast. The aura buff would cast only on the Adv's team mates, not on the Adv. The Morph modifiers would equal the sum of the current Morph modifiers and that Morph's current Aura. The Aura would buff the Adv's team mates (again, not the Adv) by an amount equal to 1/2 the Morph modifier (rounded up or down depending on what makes sense).
    This change would let Advs more fluidly switch between morphs without having to cast the buff aura each time.

    For the top morphs and team buffs, that would look like this (all values @lvl 200, all revised morphs buff only the team-mates, not the Adv):

    1. Leet Morph/Aura
    Now: Morph gives +700 Runspeed, +700 Conceal, +18 crit. Aura gives 100 Runspeed, 200 Concealment, 7 Crit.
    Revised: Morph gives 800 Runspeed, 900 Conceal, 25 crit, Aura gives 400 Runspeed, 450 Conceal, 12 Crit.

    2. Cat Morph/Aura
    Now: Morph gives 200 Add All Damage, 100 Add All Offense. Aura gives 65 Add All Damage, 100 Add All Offense
    Revised: Morph gives 265 Add All Damage, 200 AAO. Aura gives 133 Add All Damage, 100 AAO

    3. Wolf Morph/Aura
    Now: Morph gives 728 Runspeed, 300 Duck/Dodge/Evade, 800 Perception. Aura gives 400 Runspeed/Perception, 100 Duck/Dodge/Evade.
    Revised: Morph gives 1,128 Runspeed, 400 Duck/Dodge/Evade, 1,200 Perception. Aura gives 564 Runspeed, 600 Perception, 200 Duck/Dodge/Evade.

    4. Lizard Morph/Aura
    Now: Morph gives 10,000 Max Health/All ACs. Aura Gives 1,500 All ACs, 1,000 Max Health, 1% Reflect
    Revised: Morph gives 11,000 Max Health, 11,500 All ACs, 1% Reflect. Aura gives 5,500 Max Health, 5,750 All ACs, 1% Reflect.

    Even though these changes would mostly only have a quality of life impact on a solo Adv, it could be argued that they would make Advs too good at buffing team mates.

    But when is the last time you've ever heard someone (outside of weird scenarios where the root/snare tree immunity is useful) say "we need to get an Adv for this team"? I don't think I ever have. Besides, I'm not sure any one of these would even equal the total buff utility Advs are losing from Calia's Form: Wolf (Other), Istare and Mother Wolf.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    Personal opinion - which I'm actually a bit hesitant to give, as I don't play Adv, and so don't have a stake in this.
    The general approach is pretty much in line with what I'd been thinking: have the auras not affect self, adjust morph mods appropriately. No idea if any kind of aura can work like that though.
    Last edited by Scum; Apr 24th, 2015 at 19:19:51.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    Personal opinion - which I'm actually a bit hesitant to give, as I don't play Adv, and so don't have a stake in this.
    Actually you do have a stake in this, because you could be teaming an Adventurer

    How values are set might be for later as this idea would solve multiple things.

    1) Aura's are slow casting
    2) Aura's need to be recasted upon switching, This in combination with "point 1)" reduces flexibility by alot.
    3) Lowest version is now Spec 1 locked
    4) Would/ could solve the evade nerf at the lower TL's addressed by McKnuckleSamwich and which is hitting the Froobs very hard atm.

    +1 and I'll have to rework this in the Idea/ Suggestion thread


    I've been rethinking this. and With respect for post 4, 9 and 11, I think I might want to suggest this to be reworked as followed.

    1) Add the aura's to the Morphs then selves.
    2) Morphs get a 20 cooldown after casting. OR 2) The Morph get to keep there current Cooldown and all Booster specials are moved into the same line.
    * This will fix being able to cycle though specials in PvP and is a tradeoff for nolonger having to cast aura's after switching.
    3) Aura's buff team of roughly 50% of what the Morph buff's an Adventurer.
    5) Lower version of the Moprh and thus that aura, is useable again for Froob.

    I still have the problem for the lower version of the Wolf in that matter, as the Evade nerf there is hardest where it wasn't realy needed. Because the morph will buff less at lower TL lvl's and can't be stacked with other Speed/ Evande buffs. Double nerf there.
    Even if other speed/ evade buff would stacked, the total would be lower (but less worse) then before the patch. So removing ONLY the "Lower" Wolf Morph from the Speed/ Evade line could be a possibility, but I'll need more numbers on this. (Just an Idea for now).
    Last edited by Zwelgje; Apr 24th, 2015 at 11:54:12.

  14. #14
    I missed that (haven't been able to bring myself to log my advy in yet) - but now all the team Auras require SL?

    Well I had thought Michi wasn't into the froob hatred like Genele was. Guess I was wrong.

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 210/26/60 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    The general approach is pretty much in line with what I'd been thinking: have the auras not effect self, adjust morph mods appropriately. No idea if any kind of aura can work like that though.
    Sure it can. Aura's just need to check if the Morph is runnig or not, If the Morph is present the aura wont apply on that teammember (or self), otherwhise another Adventuere could buff a fellow Adventurer to the Max! So that check should be part of this as well. Another solution would be that all Morphs buff 50% and the aura Buffs 50%, Aura is casted on every member and would result in 100% for the adventurer and 50% for teammembers.

    I've also thought about this idea in the way that Adventurers Morph for 67% and only from the point they "team" the team-aura kicks in for all Teammebers Boosting the remaining 33%!

    Only have to figure out what 6 Adventurers in one team would be like !!!
    Last edited by Zwelgje; Apr 24th, 2015 at 12:05:11.

  16. #16
    That's more work than necessary , just make each morph be in the same line as the aura.

    The main buff that refreshes the aura is in the Fortify line but the aura that the advy and teammates get are in seperate lines expample: Squeaking from the Darkness nanoline: Controlled Rage Buff.

    So you just add Controlled Rage Buff to the leet morph's nanolines.

  17. #17
    Why are all the new adv auras locked behind VPs when they don't have the LE expansion requirement? Including the return to form nano, which is supposed to be castable even by the lowliest of froobs?! Sense: this makes none.

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 210/26/60 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  18. #18
    First, all in all I'm quite fine with the changes, but two (and a half) things I don't like so much:
    First: Parrot... why self only? I can't remember how often I used the Team-Parrot as an emergency evac in outdoors activities and so saving the team from soldiergridding. Or gave parrot to other players so they could get somewhere they had definte troubles to get there without (esp lowbies).
    Second: Lizard...Yes, I guess I'll use it more often now than before, but could we get a little more size? As it is now it feels to me like being a winged pig and somewhat ridiculous.
    Last edited by Alina; Apr 26th, 2015 at 10:08:36.
    "Some lose all mind and become soul: insane.
    some lose all soul and become mind: intellectual.
    some lose both and become accepted"
    - Charles Bukowski

    Diplomacy means: Win all the battles .... and lose the war.

  19. #19
    Bump for Team-Parrot (or casting on other Players)!!!

  20. #20
    In no particular order:

    Morph Buffs

    In the original rebalance documents the cat damage buffs had the wonderful feature of having a cooldown a bit shorter than their duration, which was nicely balanced by a somewhat high nano cost. I'd like to see this idea brought back, though I'm not sure what sort of costs would work since, unlike the old doc, we don't have new shadowlevel versions extending the line. I don't think a similar approach makes sense for the other morph buffs though.

    Tree doesn't get any 'morph buff,' but what if—though it would seem to necessitate a name change—the lizard self heals were enabled for tree as well? Or the idea of emergency heals from the old docs could be brought back and tree would also enable healing others with them. As an aside, what do people think about enabling walk-speed movement in tree?


    Morph Requirements

    We have higher level versions of the morphs because (presumably) level-scaling doesn't really keep up with shadowlevels, but the new high level morphs are altered versions of the highest level old morphs, and they've kept those same high cast requirements and nano cost. While before 18.7, advs had a progession of new SL morphs as they leveled up, now they're stuck with the lesser versions for most of their time leveling. Lower the reqs/cost.

    I think the 'RK' morphs should be castable without serious twinking or outside buffs by about levels 15-20 for wolf, 40-50 for cat, 90-110 for dragon, and have costs to match. I think they're already pretty close to that anyway, but lizard could probably use some slacking of the reqs/cost.


    Calms

    Unless the real cc profs are getting their calm durations nerfed to under 120s in the future, I don't see much justification for miniscule durations on adv calms. I don't think doubling their 20/25/30s duration would be out of line. Also, I don't think tacking an 'or shape == unmorphed' req onto them would be inappropriate, in spite of their l33tspeak names.


    Other Buffs

    I hope we continue to see changes to all the remaining untouched buffs (for all professions) even if, in some cases, it's only to add the now-standard 4h duration and 1/1 cast/recharge. I still really want to see the lvl-reqs knocked off the three lowest weapon and multi buffs.


    And since it seems to be a theme lately, let's get an adv req on Chef Cleaver/Chief Cook Cleaver and any other weapons advs should be able to use that have reqs excluding advs.

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