18.7 Final Adjustment Requests

[Cranberri]

personal service towers are poppable like pets, and provide a buff called "Drone Shield". It's a ac buff and a very very small hot. The current highest ql ingame is 225, ql300 are long coveted and hardly game breaking. It's more of a side request, not really part of the patch. Just something to throw in there now that I've reminded them :-)

[Emma]

Could we get an NPC near the robots, waste collectors, garbage fleas ... to have a question we can ask about the shoulder-pad pieces that drop? Perhaps even tell us the combination sequence so that we can combine them so that they take less of our valuable space while on Arete?

Not complete the full quest, just an intro with the combine sequence.

Emma

Edit: I received a response from Michi today that tutoring devices will be yesdrop with next patch.
Edit: Suggested IP for fixers still has multi-ranged even though starter weapon is no longer dual-wieldable. Also, the starter staff for MP's on Arete is not upgradeable ... is that as intended?

[Genie]

When you are the target of a double, can we get a hostile program in our NCU that lasts about 5s, that have a higher stacking order than doubles?

This will have no effect for a single NT attacking you, but it will take care of the MB NT armies out there killing everyone with a single click.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

When you are the target of a double, can we get a hostile program in our NCU that lasts about 5s, that have a higher stacking order than doubles?

This will have no effect for a single NT attacking you, but it will take care of the MB NT armies out there killing everyone with a single click.

LOL

you don't like being targeted by more than one person?

What next? blockers in case someone dumps a fling shot and a AS on you?

or, wait, I know... lets just give everyone a 3s 100% reflect anytime a perk lands.

YES! this idea has PROMISE!

[Genie]

LOL you don't like being targeted by more than one person?

Not what I said.

What next? blockers in case someone dumps a fling shot and a AS on you?

We already have blockers for fling shot and AS, etc.

or, wait, I know... lets just give everyone a 3s 100% reflect anytime a perk lands.

NTs already have 100% reflect, and it works against every attack, not just perks.

So now that you've had your laugh, we can move on to talk about the problem. 4+ NTs launching an attack, for which there are no defense, against one target at the exact same time instantly killing them, is an actual problem. You can twist and turn it anyway you want, or ridicule it in an attempt to continue your own practices, but it still is a problem.

Funcom has said that they will not do anything to solve the MB problem. Thats fine, I don't see MB as the problem here really. The problem is the combination of MBing and an undefensable attack that break the 30% cap.

Since funcom won't do anything to solve either of the two problems, instead introduce a band-aid fix, which they love. When a pierce reflect nuke lands on you, add a program to your NCU that runs for 5s with a higher stacking order. Won't affect single NTs at all, only multiple NTs attacking at once using the same nuke, such as MB NTs.

Lets examine your failed attempt at ridicule once more shall we?

LOL you don't like being targeted by more than one person?

Again not somthing that I actaully said, but here goes: With this "idea" you will still be targeted by more than one person. You will still be attacked and killed by multiple persons at once. The only thing that will change, is that MB NTs will loose their effectiveness. Multiple NTs controlled by multiple persons will still be able to use other nukes and nanos on the target. Nothing about the "idea" stopping anyone to be targeted by more than one person. Oh and guess what? This "idea" is already in use in the game, except that it is used for roots and snares instead.

Do you have an actual argument against this? Or just more failed attempts at ridicule?

[Vinkera]

Not what I said.

We already have blockers for fling shot and AS, etc.

NTs already have 100% reflect, and it works against every attack, not just perks.

So now that you've had your laugh, we can move on to talk about the problem. 4+ NTs launching an attack, for which there are no defense, against one target at the exact same time instantly killing them, is an actual problem. You can twist and turn it anyway you want, or ridicule it in an attempt to continue your own practices, but it still is a problem.

Funcom has said that they will not do anything to solve the MB problem. Thats fine, I don't see MB as the problem here really. The problem is the combination of MBing and an undefensable attack that break the 30% cap.

Since funcom won't do anything to solve either of the two problems, instead introduce a band-aid fix, which they love. When a pierce reflect nuke lands on you, add a program to your NCU that runs for 5s with a higher stacking order. Won't affect single NTs at all, only multiple NTs attacking at once using the same nuke, such as MB NTs.

Lets examine your failed attempt at ridicule once more shall we?

Again not somthing that I actaully said, but here goes: With this "idea" you will still be targeted by more than one person. You will still be attacked and killed by multiple persons at once. The only thing that will change, is that MB NTs will loose their effectiveness. Multiple NTs controlled by multiple persons will still be able to use other nukes and nanos on the target. Nothing about the "idea" stopping anyone to be targeted by more than one person. Oh and guess what? This "idea" is already in use in the game, except that it is used for roots and snares instead.

Do you have an actual argument against this? Or just more failed attempts at ridicule?

I'm not 100% opposed to that idea, but do keep in mind, I'm not totally sold on the idea of nerfing my profession simply because of exploiters / multiboxers.

This suggestion of yours is largely a bandaid fix for a problem I really am not interested in getting involved with, honestly.

[Genie]

I'm not 100% opposed to that idea, but do keep in mind, I'm not totally sold on the idea of nerfing my profession simply because of exploiters / multiboxers.

I completely sympatize with that, and its not my intention to nerf NTs with this idea. That's why I wanted to make sure such a bandaid fix did not affect a single NT in any way, just something that would stop MB teams from abusing it.

It would be good to get a discussion going on ways to address the problem, and air some alternatives.

[DigitalBath]

So.. rendering a legitimate team of NT's worthless is fine in some people's eyes. Makes ZERO sense, sorry.

You can't stop a team of shades, adventurers, crats, engineers.. and you shouldn't. Multiboxing or not.

NT's shouldn't be held to a different standard, especially after doubles were nerfed and triples were removed. I'm surprised this is even a thing.

[Genie]

So.. rendering a legitimate team of NT's worthless is fine in some people's eyes.

And it would be really cool if people didn't use strawmen everytime they want to make an argument.

You can't stop a team of shades, adventurers, crats, engineers.. and you shouldn't. Multiboxing or not.

Its not about stopping. But your strawman argument has changed the premise of my idea, so explaining this further is pointless.

NT's shouldn't be held to a different standard, especially after doubles were nerfed and triples were removed. I'm surprised this is even a thing.

They are not, its the combination of broken mechanics that creates a problem, not the profession.

[DigitalBath]

And it would be really cool if people didn't use strawmen everytime they want to make an argument.


Its not about stopping. But your strawman argument has changed the premise of my idea, so explaining this further is pointless.


They are not, its the combination of broken mechanics that creates a problem, not the profession.

You may not know what a strawman is. My example fits within your proposed limitation just fine.

Your "solution" clearly states that a second (or third.. or 10th..) NT's double would be rendered useless. If there was a legitimate team (or just random grouping) of NT's in a place, attacking you within the same 5 second window with a double (very much possible since doubles are used fairly often).. only 1 NT would damage you with doubles every 5sec.

This is absolutely ridiculous, sorry. It's equivalent IN PRINCIPLE to doing the same with special attacks.. maybe even certain high damage perks? (think shade PM perks). The "side effect" of negating two or more people playing together with the same profession is what makes it ridiculous. Let's say me and Vinkera are both attacking you... why shouldn't we both get to use doubles?

It's about stopping a group (coordinated or not) of NT's using an already nerfed part of their toolset within a 5 second time frame. So if you want me to be a little more literal.. it's similar IN PRINCIPLE to doing the same to multiple shades using PM perks+SA+BS(if attacking others), multiple advs using AS+FA+Burst+Fling+PM perks or multiple engineers stacking all their pets on you, which is wrong and poorly thought out. (keep in mind NT's have no special attacks and that our nukes are effectively our weapons, doubles being a clearly PvP-oriented part of our weaponry)

There's no "combination of broken mechanics" as much as there is a person being focused by more than 1 NT, which is legitimate and intended (when there are multiple NT's facing you, that is).

With many professions.. sometimes you alpha others and it feels good, sometimes you get alpha'd and it feels bad. But that's always been part of what this game is in PvP. I, as a NT, know that very, very well.

[Vinkera]

Settle down you two.

I'm personally not a huge fan of doubles anyway, but it is a big part of our offensive toolset. We can't just allow someone to become immune to it because someone else used it. Situationally, that's just causing complication and confusion to legitimate players.

Doniger, I know what you're saying, but that really doesn't stop that same multiboxer from logging in his team of agents to AS everything instead or whatever. Should AS have a target lockout? Of course not, and for the same reason.

Like I said before, I have no interest in getting into a discussion, or suggesting changes based on multiboxing. I'm here to suggest changes for my profession, but also to protect the interests of my legitimate NT players. There's no reason NT's need to be singled out, since other professions are abused by multiboxers also, and multiboxing, in general, should be a concern of a level above me.

[Genie]

You may not know what a strawman is. My example fits within your proposed limitation just fine.

My idea is to put a stop to an expolit, and you turned it into some kind of crusade against NT saying "a team of NTs would be useless". That is not true, this is a strawman, and it's a lot easier to argument against.

This is absolutely ridiculous, sorry. It's equivalent IN PRINCIPLE to doing the same with special attacks.. maybe even certain high damage perks? (think shade PM perks). The "side effect" of negating two or more people playing together with the same profession is what makes it ridiculous. Let's say me and Vinkera are both attacking you... why shouldn't we both get to use doubles?

They could, as you say, use other professions in an MB to do the same with specials. IN PRINCIPLE that should produce the same result. But they don't use other professions to get the desired result, the specifically use NTs. Why is that? It's because NTs are the only ones that have an attack that breaks the 30% cap and for which there is no defense against. A team of MB NTs using this kills ANYONE instantly, and those using it are well aware of that fact. That is IMO a combination of broken mechanics put together to create a situation where you get an unfair advantage over others.

Against AS for instance, which is the special most obvious to compare to, there are defenses that more or less work, such as crit reduction, reflects, deflect and blockers. If there were equivalent defences against reflect piercing nukes, then the situation would be different. But atm there aren't any.

With many professions.. sometimes you alpha others and it feels good, sometimes you get alpha'd and it feels bad. But that's always been part of what this game is in PvP. I, as a NT, know that very, very well.

Please don't turn this into a "he got alphaed by an NT" whine. I want to try and find a solution to something that IMO is an exploit that ruins the fun of the game, NOT in any way nerf NTs.

I have died against NTs so many times, and equally many times cursed them to hell and back. But everytime was fair fights, where I actually had a fighting chance. I have also faced multiple NTs at the same time, and do you know what I noticed? They very, very rarely used a double on me at the EXACT same time. I got doubles, sure, but also CBed, rooted, blinded and normal nukes. The doubles I received were spaced out over time.

If the 5 second lockout thing is a bad idea, then fine, no problem. Let's discuss alternatives. Would you accept a lockout of 1-2 seconds? Even a 1 second lockout would most likely fix the problem, and then the impact to a team of NTs would be close to nothing. Casting time is afterall 1 sec min. Would the NT community accept to drop the pierce reflect part, so that reflects become a viable defense? That would make soldiers happy, and maybe help put them back into the role as "zerg breakers".

[Wakizaka]

I would rather see something added to all specials, perks, 'special nukes' to place something running on the target for diminishing returns within ~6 seconds.
ie. 6x Aimed Shots incoming, first is 100%, second 80%, then 70%, 60%, 50%, 40%.
The same applying for other specials etc.

The one problem I see with that, is the amount of work that would be required to create diminishing return target cool-downs for so many different items, and to ensure the DR item ticks back appropriately, also without spamming the hell out of your NCU window.

The other problem, is getting quorum from the community regarding such an idea.

[DigitalBath]

WARNING: This post came out way longer than I thought it would and I'm too lazy to trim it down.

My idea is to put a stop to an expolit, and you turned it into some kind of crusade against NT saying "a team of NTs would be useless". That is not true, this is a strawman, and it's a lot easier to argument against.

There's actually no exploit involved in multiple people using doubles, which was the case I presented to you as wrongfully affected by your solution. IF the multiboxer doesn't break the EULA (check FC's statements on this, as it IS easily doable without breaking it), there's also no exploit involved (e.g. use 1 keypress per client per action, 5 doubles on you would require 5 keys pressed by the MBer, no automation involved, just relaying/broadcasting). Not defending multiboxing (pvp or pvm), just pointing out a false/misinformed statement in your post.
You may want to review things. I also didn't turn it into what you said, you're the one attempting a strawman by saying that, curiously. Read my post again, I was even overly literal for you.

They could, as you say, use other professions in an MB to do the same with specials. IN PRINCIPLE that should produce the same result. But they don't use other professions to get the desired result, the specifically use NTs. Why is that? It's because NTs are the only ones that have an attack that breaks the 30% cap and for which there is no defense against. A team of MB NTs using this kills ANYONE instantly, and those using it are well aware of that fact. That is IMO a combination of broken mechanics put together to create a situation where you get an unfair advantage over others.

See.. Multiboxers have mostly used agents (the classic froob 5x agent combo) and crats (for towers, arty's well known army of crap is *very* well known). Your statement is false. They use NT's too, but it's not even the most used class.
For the multibox alpha with exploits there's even a few lame videos proving that the commonly used setup by those who actually *are* breaking the pvp portion of the game is 5 agents and a fixer (or 6 agents fp doc and 1 fixer, not sure on that bit)
I get your problem with this, but the solution is more likely to curb PvP multiboxing than to nerf anything on any profession. The angle is just wrong.

Against AS for instance, which is the special most obvious to compare to, there are defenses that more or less work, such as crit reduction, reflects, deflect and blockers. If there were equivalent defences against reflect piercing nukes, then the situation would be different. But atm there aren't any.

Against LEGITIMATE teams that aren't just a MB gank.. Some examples of things you left out: Perk NR (unique way to fully disable our entire arsenal even with 100 NT's on you, btw! better than a 100% perma reflect for that effect!), use stuns, nsd, deprive/ransack/gth, heals, cocoon and other absorbs, init debuffs and snares. Use Root and get out of range of nuking until Aegis is down and then alpha the NT (since we can't use NS II and Doubles, they lock each other out in case you forgot).
Against MB'ers.. they'll just mow you down with their agents or whatever else and laugh even if doubles are removed.. you're not actually solving anything.

There's sacrifices to using Doubles already and they were nerfed already (and triples were removed). That's why your request seems waaay out of reason.
There's more, but I'm not going to explain everything that can work against a NT using doubles, it's not the point of this thread or discussion.

Please don't turn this into a "he got alphaed by an NT" whine. I want to try and find a solution to something that IMO is an exploit that ruins the fun of the game, NOT in any way nerf NTs.

That's exactly what you come off as with that type of solution. Something can't be an exploit "in your opinion". It either is or isn't. FC and FC alone decides on that.
Crippling a legitimate team of NT's (let's say me and 4 friends make NT's and are on voice chat, for the sake of this argument alone) is NOT a viable solution in any way, shape or form.

I have died against NTs so many times, and equally many times cursed them to hell and back. But everytime was fair fights, where I actually had a fighting chance. I have also faced multiple NTs at the same time, and do you know what I noticed? They very, very rarely used a double on me at the EXACT same time. I got doubles, sure, but also CBed, rooted, blinded and normal nukes. The doubles I received were spaced out over time.

I have fought alongside NT's and we have used doubles (or triples) together. This is highly situational and your experience (or mine) may not reflect a majority. Note that many NT's choose to fight in defensive focus and use NS II, losing access to doubles/triples(or timed nukes now). This means IU and DM are their nukes of choice, this can further mislead you.

If the 5 second lockout thing is a bad idea, then fine, no problem. Let's discuss alternatives. Would you accept a lockout of 1-2 seconds? Even a 1 second lockout would most likely fix the problem, and then the impact to a team of NTs would be close to nothing. Casting time is afterall 1 sec min. Would the NT community accept to drop the pierce reflect part, so that reflects become a viable defense? That would make soldiers happy, and maybe help put them back into the role as "zerg breakers".

The 1-2s lockout scenario wouldn't fix your problem as multiboxers can easily introduce automatic delays (which break the EULA but those doing it don't care) and you still wouldn't be able to do much vs. 6 staggered doubles+timed nukes on you). It would, however, possibly cripple legitimate NT's who are simultaneously targeting you and can't coordinate it with automatic delays. It's just not a proper way to go about it.

I'll remind you that to have that much offense via doubles and timed nukes, NT's have to give up a good chunk of their defense. (and we get our nano set to 0 after our only form of defense is gone). I'll also mention that our defenses (NS II) are broken by doubles just as much as a soldier's. Few things hurt as much as a NT popping doubles on me when I go Defensive focus.. and boy do they hurt. It's fair though, since they can be easily killed too with some tactical play.

I get that you may be annoyed by multiboxers with NT's alpha'ing you without a chance to get back at them or surviving. But unless FC takes action on Multiboxing in PvP (they sort of stated they won't several times, don't get your hopes up), there's not much you can do about it. Nerfing legitimate groups of NT's will serve no greater purpose unless you nerf every single thing in the game that does high damage and scales in a team pvp setting, specials, nukes, perks.. everything.

Multiboxers in pvp may be a bad thing, but they're not unbeatable. They are extremely dedicated to what they do, though. So if you band-aid fix it, they'll have something else ready before it hits live. Look at examples of multiboxing in similar games and how it's handled by the community.

The question that stands: Why should two/more legitimate NT's who choose to use doubles at the same time on a target pay for a problem created by multiboxers, who will just use another class and use different means for the same purpose?

Sorry for the somewhat redundant/badly organized and possibly too defensive, in some points, post, but I just see your idea as something with the right intentions but nearly 0% chance of actually accomplishing what you want, while unnecessarily damaging a profession that I play and love for the past 12 years. Worse, you're doing this at a time where NT's are immense fun to play and there's plenty of them coming back. The high-risk/high-reward game type is finally worth it in PvP (at least in BS, haven't been to towers) and PvM without it being game-breaking. CB was nerfed (line cooldown), Doubles were nerfed. Triples were replaced by something that does less damage and requires timing to use properly (e.g. can be disrupted by stuns/debuffs). That should be enough, already.

P.S. -- Waki's idea is much better and more viable.. but there's three issues with it.

1. It requires a will from the Game Developers to end coordinated alphas and target calling situations (like in a proper Tara and such places, where AS is often king)..
2. As he stated, it requires support from the community.
3. On a note for viability, MB'ers who want to keep BM'ing PvP could simply try and min-max the whole thing by having different profs with different pets, specials, perks, etc all combo'd up. It wouldn't be as effective.. but it would be considerably harder to fight against as you can't just take out the multiboxer's characters without a similarly varied assortment of professions. Just imagine if the solution makes multiboxers even stronger/harder to kill..

The development effort depends on how the systems handle these things but it shouldn't be impossible to do it in a manner that doesn't fill up our NCU too badly.

[Genie]

I think the combination constitutes an exploit, you don't, thats fine. We just have to disagree. Its pointless to argue over semantics. And I know they used to use agents at first, but they learned that MB agents are much more vulnerable to disruption than NTs and the effectiveness of AS is more hyped up than it actually is, which is why they changed. From my point of view NTs being used is just incidential.

Against LEGITIMATE teams that aren't just a MB gank.. Some examples of things you left out: Perk NR (unique way to fully disable our entire arsenal even with 100 NT's on you, btw! better than a 100% perma reflect for that effect!), use stuns, nsd, deprive/ransack/gth, heals, cocoon and other absorbs, init debuffs and snares. Use Root and get out of range of nuking until Aegis is down and then alpha the NT (since we can't use NS II and Doubles, they lock each other out in case you forgot).

Yes, you are right, NR8 is a defence, BUT it cripples most professions so much as to render them close to useless. And the tactics you mention are all viable, and they work against normal player controlled NTs. BUT with machine synchronized MBs you never get the chance to employ any of these tactics, because you are instantly killed. And I'm not talking single person vs MB here, I'm talking raids that are wiped by just a handful of people.

You see, I don't have a problem with NTs or their toolset. If I came off as that, then sorry, mea culpa. I don't really have a problem with MB'ing either. It's the combination, with the attack power of the double, machine synchronized as a single attack, that I have a problem with.

All I want is to try to find a way to disrupt that synchronization, NOT nerf idividual NTs.

You say:

The 1-2s lockout scenario wouldn't fix your problem as multiboxers can easily introduce automatic delays (which break the EULA but those doing it don't care) and you still wouldn't be able to do much vs. 6 staggered doubles+timed nukes on you). It would, however, possibly cripple legitimate NT's who are simultaneously targeting you and can't coordinate it with automatic delays. It's just not a proper way to go about it.

I disagree with this, because in that second (since I'm talking about raid attacks here), you have the time get some healing, and maybe start to employ some of the tactics you already mentioned, which will increase (not guarantee) your chance of survival. And I don't really see how it would cripple legitimate NT's. From the NT's point of view you'd just get a message like "can't execute nano, better already running", or some such, and you would still be able to cast another nano. It won't be like the nano got resisted and attack and recharge is spoiled. I would like to hear more about why you think NTs get crippled by this, because I think at best they would just be inconvenienced. But MBs would loose their synchronized attack, even with delays built in, and that's all I really want.

The question that stands: Why should two/more legitimate NT's who choose to use doubles at the same time on a target pay for a problem created by multiboxers, who will just use another class and use different means for the same purpose?

Yes I agree, it will be a trade off. But how much of a trade off would it be? Legitimate NT's wont be as coordinated and synchronized as an MB unless they get really lucky. And legitimate NTs can very easily adapt by combining different attacks. The target can be doubled again after just 1 sec.

Waki's idea is much better and more viable.. but there's three issues with it.

Yes its a very interesting idea. Like a force field strengthening itself in anticipation of another lethal attack. But the reason for my "band-aid" fix suggestion, is because it is very easy for developers to implement. I feel that this kind of change will probably require a lot more development effort, and because of that unfortunally, unlikely to happen.

It wouldn't be as effective.. but it would be considerably harder to fight against as you can't just take out the multiboxer's characters without a similarly varied assortment of professions. Just imagine if the solution makes multiboxers even stronger/harder to kill..

TBH, as long is it would take away their ability to instantly kill someone without a single chance of response or survival, I would be ok with that.

[DigitalBath]

I think the combination constitutes an exploit, you don't, thats fine. We just have to disagree. Its pointless to argue over semantics. And I know they used to use agents at first, but they learned that MB agents are much more vulnerable to disruption than NTs and the effectiveness of AS is more hyped up than it actually is, which is why they changed. From my point of view NTs being used is just incidential.

FC's policies are what rules exploits. What I (or anyone else) personally feel(s) should/shouldn't is irrelevant. Other than that, agree to disagree.

Yes, you are right, NR8 is a defence, BUT it cripples most professions so much as to render them close to useless. And the tactics you mention are all viable, and they work against normal player controlled NTs. BUT with machine synchronized MBs you never get the chance to employ any of these tactics, because you are instantly killed. And I'm not talking single person vs MB here, I'm talking raids that are wiped by just a handful of people.

Many professions are crippled but remain viable with NR8, while completely disarming NT's, who won't have anything to do other than watching them regardless of what they do. Somehow that sounds wrong to me.
I write about both normal team play and MB "sets" because both are affected by the countermeasure.

You see, I don't have a problem with NTs or their toolset. If I came off as that, then sorry, mea culpa. I don't really have a problem with MB'ing either. It's the combination, with the attack power of the double, machine synchronized as a single attack, that I have a problem with.

All I want is to try to find a way to disrupt that synchronization, NOT nerf idividual NTs.

Fair enough. I get that.

I disagree with this, because in that second (since I'm talking about raid attacks here), you have the time get some healing, and maybe start to employ some of the tactics you already mentioned, which will increase (not guarantee) your chance of survival. And I don't really see how it would cripple legitimate NT's. From the NT's point of view you'd just get a message like "can't execute nano, better already running", or some such, and you would still be able to cast another nano. It won't be like the nano got resisted and attack and recharge is spoiled. I would like to hear more about why you think NTs get crippled by this, because I think at best they would just be inconvenienced. But MBs would loose their synchronized attack, even with delays built in, and that's all I really want.

The problem is that they'll just switch to something else and/or ramp up the numbers if they have to. Seriously, look up serious multiboxers in other games.. it gets pretty insane.

Yes I agree, it will be a trade off. But how much of a trade off would it be? Legitimate NT's wont be as coordinated and synchronized as an MB unless they get really lucky. And legitimate NTs can very easily adapt by combining different attacks. The target can be doubled again after just 1 sec.

NT's in Offensive Focus will usually stick to CB (line cooldown) GIVA (line cooldown), Timed Nukes (line cooldown) and, ofc, Doubles which "replace" IU as the "spammable damage".
They will, usually, cast doubles the most as the rest will be on cooldowns, so assuming that doubles will, often enough, be cast within similar time windows isn't a stretch, they're our "normal hits".

Yes its a very interesting idea. Like a force field strengthening itself in anticipation of another lethal attack. But the reason for my "band-aid" fix suggestion, is because it is very easy for developers to implement. I feel that this kind of change will probably require a lot more development effort, and because of that unfortunally, unlikely to happen.

Sometimes it's worth it to take the time to do things right. Michi's 18.7 was a good way to show it.

TBH, as long is it would take away their ability to instantly kill someone without a single chance of response or survival, I would be ok with that.

Agree to disagree here as an unstoppable multiboxer to me is worse than one who can alpha 1 person down "for sure". You get a chance for survival and/or response but may lose the ability to get them off the tower field. Too much of a trade-off. It'd have to be a veeery well-studied DR mechanic.. and it'd have to be something FC wants.

[Bendaar]

I'd like a migration for keeper heal/nano auras as following :

Nano auras - no spec
if user has uploaded "Tone of Accord" and not uploaded "Tone of Clarity", upload "Tone of Clarity".
if user has uploaded "Tone of Purity" and not uploaded "Tone of Clarity", upload "Tone of Clarity".
if user has uploaded "Tone of Tranquility" and not uploaded "Tone of Clarity", upload "Tone of Clarity".
Delete "Tone of Accord".
Delete "Tone of Purity".
Delete "Tone of Tranquility".

Nano auras - spec 2
if user has uploaded "Tone of Rapport" and not uploaded "Tone of Harmony", upload "Tone of Harmony".
if user has uploaded "Tone of Benevolence" and not uploaded "Tone of Harmony", upload "Tone of Harmony".
if user has uploaded "Tone of Unity" and not uploaded "Tone of Harmony", upload "Tone of Harmony".
Delete "Tone of Rapport".
Delete "Tone of Benevolence".
Delete "Tone of Unity".

Nano auras - spec 4
if user has uploaded "Tone of Bliss" and not uploaded "Tone of Serenity", upload "Tone of Serenity".
Delete "Tone of Bliss".

Heal auras - no spec
if user has uploaded "Ambient Alleviation" and not uploaded "Ambient Restoration", upload "Ambient Restoration".
if user has uploaded "Ambient Rehabilitation" and not uploaded "Ambient Restoration", upload "Ambient Restoration".
if user has uploaded "Ambient Rejuvenation" and not uploaded "Ambient Restoration", upload "Ambient Restoration".
Delete "Ambient Alleviation".
Delete "Ambient Rehabilitation".
Delete "Ambient Rejuvenation".

Heal auras - spec 2 (see note below)
if user has uploaded "Ambient Regeneration (old)" and not uploaded "Ambient Regeneration (new)", upload "Ambient Regeneration (new)".
if user has uploaded "Ambient Amelioration" and not uploaded "Ambient Regeneration (new)", upload "Ambient Regeneration (new)".
if user has uploaded "Ambient Revitalization" and not uploaded "Ambient Regeneration (new)", upload "Ambient Regeneration (new)".
Delete "Ambient Regeneration (old)".
Delete "Ambient Amelioration".
Delete "Ambient Revitalization".

note :
"Ambient Convalescence" in 17.7 = "Ambient Regeneration" in 18.7 = "Ambient Regeneration (new)"
"Ambient Regeneration" in 17.7 = "Ambient Regeneration" in 18.7 = "Ambient Regeneration (old)"

Heal auras - spec 4
if user has uploaded "Ambient Invigoration" and not uploaded "Ambient Renaissance", upload "Ambient Renaissance".
Delete "Ambient Invigoration".

[Emma]

Any chance of lowering the skills required to cast the new Form of Cerberus? Maybe 50 or 100 points?

Emma

[Le-Quack]

hi

LeQuack

[Emma]

Or, perhaps make all the "new" nano crystals that are not "quest" nano's Rollable ... ? Even in the VP/LE shop it adds up.



Emma