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Thread: 18.7.0.22 Testlive Patch Notes

  1. #1

    18.7.0.22 Testlive Patch Notes

    Some more changes on Testlive for us Bureaucrats. We have some debuffs back!

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...7M%20/%20Peren

    Bureaucrat:

    Added two lines of initiative debuffs:
    "Wasteful" nanos reduce a single initiative by 450
    "Inefficient" nanos reduce a single initiative by 200
    Only 1 nano from each line can run on a target

    After discussing things with Michi we've been given a little of our debuffing power back.

    Hop on Testlive and give it a try & post your feedback in this thread.

    New nanos info:

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Inefficient Arm Movements)
    On Self:
    Must not have nanoprogram: Inefficient Arm Movements and
    Bureaucrat and
    Psycho Modi from 500 and
    Bio Metamor from 500

    Description:
    Slows down the attacking speed of the target by lowering martial art initiative by 200 points.


    Nano Crystal (Bur: Inefficient Close-Quarters Combat)
    On Self:
    Must not have nanoprogram: Inefficient Close-Quarters Combat and
    Bureaucrat and
    Psycho Modi from 500 and
    Bio Metamor from 500

    Description:
    Slows down the attacking speed of the target by lowering close combat initiative by 200 points.

    Nano Crystal (Inefficient Marksmanship)(Note the slightly different name, it'll be noted in a bug report)
    On Self:
    Must not have nanoprogram: Inefficient Marksmanship and
    Bureaucrat and
    Psycho Modi from 500 and
    Bio Metamor from 500

    Description:
    Slows down the attacking speed of the target by lowering ranged weapon initiative by 200 points.

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Inefficient Nanobot Control)
    On Self:
    Must not have nanoprogram: Inefficient Nanobot Control and
    Bureaucrat and
    Psycho Modi from 500 and
    Bio Metamor from 500

    Description:
    Slows down the attacking speed of the target by lowering nano casting initiative by 200 points.

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Wasteful Arm Movements)
    On Self:
    Must not have nanoprogram: Wasteful Arm Movements and
    Bureaucrat and
    Psycho Modi from 800 and
    Bio Metamor from 800

    Description:
    Slows down the attacking speed of the target by lowering martial art initiative by 450 points.

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Wasteful Close-Quarters Combat)
    On Self:
    Must not have nanoprogram: Wasteful Close-Quarters Combat and
    Bureaucrat and
    Psycho Modi from 800 and
    Bio Metamor from 800

    Description:
    Slows down the attacking speed of the target by lowering close combat initiative by 450 points.

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Wasteful Marksmanship)
    On Self:
    Must not have nanoprogram: Wasteful Marksmanship and
    Bureaucrat and
    Psycho Modi from 800 and
    Bio Metamor from 800

    Description:
    Slows down the attacking speed of the target by lowering ranged weapon initiative by 450 points.

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Wasteful Nanobot Control)
    On Self:
    Must not have nanoprogram: Wasteful Nanobot Control and
    Bureaucrat and
    Psycho Modi from 800 and
    Bio Metamor from 800

    Description:
    Slows down the attacking speed of the target by lowering nano casting initiative by 450 points.
    Last edited by Aiken; Feb 25th, 2015 at 23:35:21. Reason: Added nano info.
    One profession to RoO them all, one profession to proc stun them, one profession to calm them all and in the darkness Exp perk them!

    Crataiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution - 3rd AI 30 'Crat on RK 1 Setup
    Calms 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution
    Medicaiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution Setup
    Newen 220/30/70 President - The Galactic Milieu
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    Krataiken 150/18/40 General - Primal Evolution Setup

  2. #2
    Awsome, now we just have to figure out what mobs/bosses use what initiative
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  3. #3
    So... there will be 4 nanos of each ? Like melee-init-debuff/ranged-init-debuff/phys.-init-debuff/nanoc.-init-debuff ? And I assume "inefficient" is lower nanoskill-reqs than "wasteful" ? (asking because I can't get on test atm)

    Are they usable in pvm ? (hope so, and kinda cool, so we can FINALLY know 100% if mortiigs uses ranged or melee! )
    Jihnna 220/30/80 Shade
    Underworld

  4. #4
    So we went from .... 4 regularly used init debuffs to ... ... Malaise + 8 seperate init debuffs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  5. #5
    I believe that a few mobs like cyborgs use both MA + ranged
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  6. #6
    It looks like you can run malaise + wastefull + ineffecient nano on a target, judging from what lies to they belong to.


    so a total of 200+450+1450-ist for ~ -2100
    Sure we could debuff more before, but i guess it's ok now as well. As long as you can use the wastefull and inefficient debuffs effectively by figuring out what debuff works on what boss
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  7. #7
    returned to AO a few months ago and saw crat has became quite a popular dish.. esp. for the init debuffing. But already having 6 debuffs on my bar atm to debuff stuff and soon 10+... What is the point of splitting them up? Most players/mobs just use 2 types nano init and ranged/melee/phys.

    So if you want to break it down can't it be atleast be reduced to 4 nano's? phys/melee/ranged init on one and nano init seperate? With the durations cut in half or even more.. this is kinda stupid.. and with no clear indication what type of inits a mob uses..

  8. #8
    So I spoke a bit with Aiken and wanted to put in a suggestion.

    Remove these init debuffs and intergrate them into Pink Slip/Workplace Depression Combo.

    Keep Workplace Depression as it is now on testlive except with making the defense: check Nano Resist 85% (as Pink Slip currently has).

    Changes I would like to have made to Pink Slip...

    Target Hit Health Energy -2173 .. -3323 (keeping the old damage)

    Raising the defense: Nano resist 100 % (as Workplace Depression currently has).

    And adding four stages of debuffs to Pink Slip like the current (not testlive version - doc nano) of Malpractise has. Each stage debuffing all inits by ie. 100, upto 400.

    And adding as requirement to having these init debuffs build up that Workplace Depression is running.

    /Discuss!

  9. #9
    I would like it consolidated but not sure i want it in a nuke. Either way it feels like the crat is over and its really the only class I love. At least if its ruined I will save myself from paying for 4 accounts.

  10. #10
    I don't know about anyone else, but I effing hate this change.

    It's a colossal waste of coding effort, has exactly ZERO precedent, and the biggest clusterf*ck of it all is that ALL it's going to do is take up a crap-tonne of slots on crat hotbars that are already completely filled up with stuff.

    There are several VERY obvious reasons why this change is really, really annoying and totally stupid.

    1. few - if any mob use more than 1 init type (beast does nuke, but I've never in all my years playing AO seen his nuke interrupted)
    2. It stands to blazingly obvious reason, that there's no BENEFIT to the other 3 init debuffs in any particular init debuff if a mob is only debuffed by 1 out of the 4.
    3. It's this just a mindf*ck waste of time? The most obvious adjustment here is to separate COMBAT inits from NANO inits (if you're going to break the debuffs into usable parts, AT LEAST make it so we don't have to have 4-8 stupid nanos on our hotbar... what a joke!

    Dear Michi

    I appreciate your balancing efforts. In no way will I criticize your overall effort, however, I feel that you've made a small error in this adjustment.

    Please consider the following plausible alternative:

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Inefficient Arm Movements)
    - ranged init
    - phys init
    - melee init

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Inefficient Nanobot Control)
    -nano init

    And the obvious change for the second set.

    This at least would cut down the number of debuff nanos by 4 on the hotbar, and while I don't even really agree with this, at least it's a step in the right direction.

    It begs the question though: why aren't ALL init debuffs split into similar categories?

    Why does UBT affect all 4 inits? why does malaise affect all 4 inits? Why does shade debuffs affect all 4 inits?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    I don't know about anyone else, but I effing hate this change.

    It's a colossal waste of coding effort, has exactly ZERO precedent, and the biggest clusterf*ck of it all is that ALL it's going to do is take up a crap-tonne of slots on crat hotbars that are already completely filled up with stuff.

    There are several VERY obvious reasons why this change is really, really annoying and totally stupid.

    1. few - if any mob use more than 1 init type (beast does nuke, but I've never in all my years playing AO seen his nuke interrupted)
    2. It stands to blazingly obvious reason, that there's no BENEFIT to the other 3 init debuffs in any particular init debuff if a mob is only debuffed by 1 out of the 4.
    3. It's this just a mindf*ck waste of time? The most obvious adjustment here is to separate COMBAT inits from NANO inits (if you're going to break the debuffs into usable parts, AT LEAST make it so we don't have to have 4-8 stupid nanos on our hotbar... what a joke!

    Dear Michi

    I appreciate your balancing efforts. In no way will I criticize your overall effort, however, I feel that you've made a small error in this adjustment.

    Please consider the following plausible alternative:

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Inefficient Arm Movements)
    - ranged init
    - phys init
    - melee init

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Inefficient Nanobot Control)
    -nano init

    And the obvious change for the second set.

    This at least would cut down the number of debuff nanos by 4 on the hotbar, and while I don't even really agree with this, at least it's a step in the right direction.

    It begs the question though: why aren't ALL init debuffs split into similar categories?

    Why does UBT affect all 4 inits? why does malaise affect all 4 inits? Why does shade debuffs affect all 4 inits?

    I agree. I am not a fan. How about we just see the current nano's stay the same. Or just consolidate them into 1 extra nano. Personally I like teaming with docs and have a line of debuffs that stack. Just seems like a really bad decision for the crat and isn't changed much from what Genele had. It was said to be a bad idea then so why continue on the same path. I think I would rather see our init debuffs stay as is and get some other type of CC or even a deflect debuff. Anything then what is going to happen.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by paperjockey View Post
    I agree. I am not a fan. How about we just see the current nano's stay the same.
    Because as it stands, it trivializes raids when combined with doc debuffs and makes it too easy for crats to solo certain instances that some other professions can't even touch without needing other players to stand a chance.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  13. #13
    I'de be perfectly happy with keeping the -600 debuff on the nuke as it is on live today and skip these, i'm guessing we'll see this revised.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  14. #14
    Things don't get revised unless people make noise about it.

    I do agree crats are OP in PVM, and they can debuff inits so badly ... but they can only debuff them marginally more effectively than doc's.

    The thing that's really got me hung up is that nobody has made a fuss over the Troaler change crat side. Crats have to use a scope to keep troaler out of OE so it's not like the setup will change a lot, but the recharge time will be about 15-16 seconds I think with crats scoped AS skill.

    I don't see anything except nerfs for crats, and while I understand it from a PVM perspective, it sure doesn't look good from a PVP perspective. Crats are going to be squishbait after 18.7.

    DTB = 19s
    ES = 30s
    ...
    50s? That's it? Seriously. I honestly don't see how any PVP crat is going to last longer than 1 minute in PVP with the changes I've seen on test.

  15. #15
    do i smell justice?

    i think its funny because everyone, literally everyone playing ao half way serious has at least one crat by now. i think soju has 4 or something, and my guess is its not for the init debuff alone (that one could do). so here you go.

  16. #16
    Yea, I get your point, crats have been very strong for a while, but that doesn't negate the fact that the current process FC staff is engaged in is called "rebalancing" or "system changes" It's not called: nerf traders, or nerf crats.

    Pressing the point - crats will get a much harder shaft than engies or doctors when it comes to using the Troaler.

    Consider this: many people think that the only prof that needs an adjustment (nerf) with regards to the troaler is Advy. (Advy is OP as hell, they have been for 3-4 years), whereas, engi/crat/doc have been somewhat reasonably balanced - engi a bit weaker, crat a bit stronger, doc a bit stronger still. So, the nerf to troaler affects these three profs significantly more than it affects advy (who arguably won't even feel the effect since they have well over 1800 AS skill which is well over whats needed to cap the troaler recharge).

    My point here is that the nerf is affecting the wrong classes and nobody crat-side has even mentioned it yet - engies aren't exactly up in arms, but at least they are rummaging through the DB to assess what options are available.

  17. #17
    i appreciate the detailed reply to a rather trollish post of mine

    but i disagree on the troll pistol thing. i am against it as a whole, and not just on advies. I want it patched out completely. I also very much believe that crats, engis, mps (i know they're not users) they all should not use such a pistol. They should rely on pets for what they have to do. Now if those pets are adequate in their current form is a different discussion altogether (for the record: i feel at least engi and crat pets provide enough dd, they can even shred your beloved fixer profession - should for any reason the fixer not get away from them), but if you ask me, a pet prof should not have aimed shot. let alone a viable aimed shot. if you ask me, they should not have any special worth a dime but aimed shot should be the last thing they should get their hands on.

    again - if in such a scenario they would actually require a different boost i cannot say for sure. my guess is at least crats in their current form and engis don't. with crats, who would even argue. there was a time where remod crats poped up and did just fine. nothing substantial (that i am aware of) has changed since then. not with 18.7 of course - different story. and engis, i remember slytha won the pvp tournament with a dshark engi. couple of changes since then, yes, but still.

    i know, i know. most people will heavily disagree with me on this. nonetheless, my point stands. and whether or not pet profs without as is viable was true in the past or is now does not matter in the slightest. right now, we have to decide how we want ao to be in the future. and i for one would like an ao were not all profs run around with aimed shot. or as, burst, fling, as usually crats and engis do. and docs. but were different professions use different toolsets. and pet profs are pet profs.
    Last edited by Xootch; Mar 9th, 2015 at 07:55:45.

  18. #18

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Dear Michi

    I appreciate your balancing efforts. In no way will I criticize your overall effort, however, I feel that you've made a small error in this adjustment.

    Please consider the following plausible alternative:

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Inefficient Arm Movements)
    - ranged init
    - phys init
    - melee init

    Nano Crystal (Bur: Inefficient Nanobot Control)
    -nano init

    And the obvious change for the second set.

    This at least would cut down the number of debuff nanos by 4 on the hotbar, and while I don't even really agree with this, at least it's a step in the right direction.
    I can attribute the short-sightedness to making changes late in the evening.

    I'd be fine with grouping the debuffs into "weapon inits" and "nano init," though RE: the lack of precedence, I did want these to be a little different than what currently existed; I am fan of requiring players to consider their options before firing off the nanobots.

    Of course, there may be better avenues to offer such choices, but this seemed like a good idea at the time, and was different enough for me to justify adding -650 inits back to the Crat toolset.
    Henry "Michizure" Senger
    Lead Designer
    ___________________________________
    Twitter - Welcome to Testlive - Customer Service

  19. #19
    Options and choices are fine. But the thing is, splitting debuffs into different weapon init types, doesn't actually allow us to make an informed choice what to use. We have no way of knowing which init type each mob is using. We'd basically have to guess.

  20. #20

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by lufa1982 View Post
    Options and choices are fine. But the thing is, splitting debuffs into different init types, doesn't actually allow us to make an informed choice what to use. We have no way of knowing which init type each mob is using. We'd basically have to guess.
    Of course, and coupled with requiring almost an entire hotbar, the current implementation is flawed and will be adjusted.
    Henry "Michizure" Senger
    Lead Designer
    ___________________________________
    Twitter - Welcome to Testlive - Customer Service

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