18.7.0.20 - Traders!

[Saetos]

But that isn't just to fix Traders. The prerogative isn't because Protection changed. It's because the system is horribly flawed - we're just in one of the most fragile positions. As it stands, you can bind all your independent perks and specials to one key and ignore every defense boost done afterwards.

[Raggy]

But that isn't just to fix Traders. The prerogative isn't because Protection changed. It's because the system is horribly flawed - we're just in one of the most fragile positions. As it stands, you can bind all your independent perks and specials to one key and ignore every defense boost done afterwards.

I still firmly believe perk checks should be done at the end of cast, not the start.

[Scottik]

But that isn't just to fix Traders. The prerogative isn't because Protection changed. It's because the system is horribly flawed - we're just in one of the most fragile positions. As it stands, you can bind all your independent perks and specials to one key and ignore every defense boost done afterwards.

I agree, binding several action to one key is stupid and should be removed however I'm not sure if that's so easy to do especially when Michi is no programmer. But that alone wouldn't solve squishiness of your prof. For example I wasn't aware of key binding up until recently but TL7 traders were always piece of cake to kill on my MA if I jumped on them first. I simply used to click on every perk action with mouse, E for AS, F for SA and 1-9 button for main hotbar.

[sannz]

I still firmly believe perk checks should be done at the end of cast, not the start.

Amen!

[lufa1982]

CiB alone is nowhere near enough to help. I doubt if double CiB would be enough. We're talking about balancing the loss of 700 def, loss of SS, loss of predrains, losing 10% of NBG's reflect and 35% slower recharge on our main weapon special. This is not a nerf, its a tactical nuke.

Improved recharge on our nanos doesn't help in the slightest, because the loss of def happens after we've drained the target.

Base defenses of full endgame Trader are around ~3k. Even now on live, landing Divest and CP only puts on you on the defense level of 4050 versus one target only. That's more or less base defense of Crat, and Crats aren't exactly AO's pinnacle of survivability.

With current test changes, landing the same two debuffs on the target has you at 3575 def, which is still very much perkable by nearly everybody. Landing all debuffs puts you at 3850, compared to 4550 on live.

Even at 4550 currently on live, its not like you suddenly become an immortal God. You're still vulnerable to big specials and MR alphas, and its still against just one target. Every Acrobat class can get that level of evades, and they will work just as well vs. 50 opponents as they work vs. one.

I'd love if we can brainstorm a creative solution that doesn't just include simply giving us +1k def, because frankly that's just boring, but its important to emphasize just how big of a dent this patch puts into our defense.

[sannz]

I wonder... how would a 3sec 100% reflect 2000dmg shield (pvp, so halfed to 1k) defense nano work for you?

Basically, it would give you around the time that SS gave, eat up quite a bit of alpha and hurt the opponent in the process. Fast Alpha profs more so than the slow ones, but then, those fast ones are the problem, aren't they? An unlucky Fixer, Shade or MA could certainly drop to half hp. Hell, a quick hard AS & Easy Shot might just be enough at that point.

Put it on a say... 30s cooldown, and you're good. Just as an idea.

[Raggy]

I wonder... how would a 3sec 100% reflect 2000dmg shield (pvp, so halfed to 1k) defense nano work for you?

Basically, it would give you around the time that SS gave, eat up quite a bit of alpha and hurt the opponent in the process. Fast Alpha profs more so than the slow ones, but then, those fast ones are the problem, aren't they? An unlucky Fixer, Shade or MA could certainly drop to half hp. Hell, a quick hard AS & Easy Shot might just be enough at that point.

Put it on a say... 30s cooldown, and you're good. Just as an idea.

Hilariously OP....


I like it


Honestly though, all that would be doing is bringing back SS in a manner that is actually better than SS was. Also Damage Shields are not really our thing.

What about a HP Swap? For XYZ amount of time both the Traders and his targets HPs are reversed, this has the dual possibility to being hilarious against Shades to want to gank you AND it would be a wonderful team saver in PvE.

[sannz]

Hilariously OP....


I like it

And right in tune with your signature: Watch them slap themselves silly doing the chicken dance while enjoying that cup of Earl Grey.

On a serious note: Yes, it's OP. Probably even bloody OP. But then, think about it. Shouldn't a trader be like a con man? Offer them something for nothing, while giving them nothing for something? E.g. Taking their dmg and throwing it back at them? The high dmg shield as the closest thing I could think of to achieve that with the current mechanics.
The only other thing equally funny to watch would be a 3s def nano that creates a 100% chance def proc healing the trader 2k hp for each hit getting past the defenese.

Anyways, the result would be that in either case, either you're sure you'll get AND finish the drop on that trader, or you take your time with him, denying him to fully utilize those tools. And time certainly never hurts.

[lufa1982]

That's very cool, sannz. And it works with Trader theme of turning opponent power against him. The more fast perks you have, the more you are at risk. Defensive stun proc would also work I guess. I'd love having some sort of attacking deterrent. Make them think twice about just facerolling that perk alpha.

Give me one of those and Unstunnable perk line and we might be onto something here.

[Saetos]

How in the world would it help in PVE? You drop all your +HP gear and target an Enforcer to ruin the raid?

It's also super abusable in PVP and would grant near instant victory over Doctors, and probably Enforcers and Agents as well, using a low HP setup to exploit the mechanic. No; we don't need gimmicks or more perklines. We need to fix what is broken.

[Raggy]

Had another ridiculous idea!

"Living on Borrowed Time -

The Trader makes a particularly risky deal with some very questionable people, greatly increasing his HP for a short duration. The HP will gradually be removed until the Trader is left almost destitute."

+20000HP for 20s
after 20s lose 2k every 2s.

Places a debuff on the Trader that leaves him with -3000 HP or something similar, gotta balance what is essentially SL Ess on an Evade prof somehow


Either that or I want to start using my credits as armour.

*Reaches for the PVA glue and bank account*

[lufa1982]

I definitely think Trader should be slippery and deceptively hard to kill instead of just flat out tanky, but for the sake of sanity we should establish some baseline power creep solution.

Enhanced Alien OFAB Trader Protective Gear Infused by The Xan

On Equip 	User 	Modify 	Max health 	500 	 
	User 	Modify 	Strength 	15 	 
	User 	Modify 	Psychic 	25 	 
	User 	Modify 	Projectile AC 	2100 	 
	User 	Modify 	Melee AC 	2100 	 
	User 	Modify 	Energy AC 	2100 	 
	User 	Modify 	Chemical AC 	2100 	 
	User 	Modify 	Radiation AC 	2100 	 
	User 	Modify 	Cold AC 	2100 	 
	User 	Modify 	Poison AC 	2100 	 
	User 	Modify 	Fire AC 	2100 	 
	User 	Modify 	NCU memory 	25 	 
	User 	Modify 	Max nano 	500 	 
	User 	Modify 	Defense modifier 	600 	 
	User 	Resistance 	Calm 	100%

This it what I'd do. It brings part of our defense back, and being unstunnable is another way of replacing SS. Stuns are key component to most of perk alphas. If devs think Traders are supposed to be perkable, that's fine, but then we need another way to counter perk damage. If I still have ability to execute actions, instead of standing there stunned and eating 25k damage, that definitely helps.

[nanoforcer]

I did like the whole 2k damageshield idea for something like 5 sec, nano "setting the bait" that would set your hp at 30% (if it's above 30%. not if below to avoid a heal situation) and -1k aad together with a heal-on-hit much like a reversed shade nano where you get healed when they hit YOU. the -1k aad would be useful so you can be perked for sure and therefore heal you more

[Saetos]

I did like the whole 2k damageshield idea for something like 5 sec, nano "setting the bait" that would set your hp at 30% (if it's above 30%. not if below to avoid a heal situation) and -1k aad together with a heal-on-hit much like a reversed shade nano where you get healed when they hit YOU. the -1k aad would be usefull so the for sure can perk you and heal you more

Then everyone kills you with perks and nukes because neither action counts as triggering on-hit effects.

We're just throwing nonsense at the wall to put ourselves back to square one. This doesn't fix PVP, it invalidates setups and playstyles and throws ludicrous wrenches into how players operate. Trader toolset, as it is now, is largely quite solid, in a vacuum, but the mechanics in play deliberately prevent us from executing this toolset at all. If you'd rather we just hammer more wood on this leaky boat then that's your deal. But recognize it won't ever fix the real issues at hand that will only serve to bring this issue up again the next time another profession gets shiny toys.

[nanoforcer]

I don't yet have any sane suggestions so why not throw out some crazy stuff, i know michi reads the boards so in the best case perhaps something usefull can come out even from silly things Inspiration to madness

[Saetos]

I don't yet have any sane suggestions so why not throw out some crazy stuff, i know michi reads the boards so in the best case perhaps something usefull can come out even from silly things Inspiration to madness

I've already listed my own suggestions that don't involve us getting band-aids slapped on our own toolset and armor. At this point it's just becoming spam.

[lufa1982]

Saetos, so suggest something that's actually functional, your ideas so far would accomplish nothing.

I agree with you on principle that AO's core mechanics are beyond awful. But real-world survivability problems that Traders experience won't be fixed just by changing game mechanics. You could change the entire perk system and that alone doesn't help us.

System-wide changes to perks and specials wouldn't just affect Traders, they would make everyone's survivability go up, all while we're still perkable. You would have them rework half the game while not moving a step from the same hole we're currently in.

[Saetos]

OK then. Remove +NR mods from HHAB and associated rings.

[lufa1982]

And how is that supposed to help me, when I'm still perkable even after landing my entire toolset?

The issue we're dealing with here, is patching a meteor-sized hole in our defenses, created by patch 18.7. How do you expect to address it with system changes? Its called system changes for a reason. They affect everybody. Say there's no more Aimed Shot. Great, now they can't hit me anymo...oh wait I just lost my only reliable weapon special.

Whatever system changes you can come up with, the balance shift will unavoidably sum up to zero. Meanwhile we'd still have -700 def, -10% reflect and no SS.

[Raggy]

OK then. Remove +NR mods from HHAB and associated rings.

But that would then also hurt us.