Fail -000- Weaps

[Derenbruder]

The new Patch has absolutely destroyed the 000 Weaps..

FC why did u lower the min dmg, so it's no use for it anymore...

[Michizure]

I lowered the min damage (while also raising the max damage and lowering requirements) mainly because I did not want these weapons to outclass weapons people had to farm and twink on.

My main goal with these weapons was to fill the weapon shops with weapons that are more viable that what was there previously, at least at lower levels. The Neutral shops still have the older inventories, should you need them.

[Gatess]

Thank you.
One of the problems explaning this game to my friends was never explaining the twinking /stats/towers parts of the game... was explaining that they shouldn't buy ANY stuff from armor and weapon stores.

[Raggy]

The weapons have gone from a waste of DB space to actual usable things for froob players. How is this a fail?

[Caloss2]

The weapons have gone from a waste of DB space to actual usable things for froob players. How is this a fail?

Yup much better, there was no end of practically useless items before and it did confuse new/er players a lot, they are much better, but not better than a weapon you need to farm for.
Spot on I'd say, solid learning weapons that don't leave toons gimped and confused

[Illisrab]

They are a bit of a fail in regards that they weren't useless before. I actually know some froobs who made them work in endgame with highend equips (includen the Threadcreator).
They needed some time/stuff/money, but done right, those setups worked realy well - those setups are now destroyed.

[Auct]

The point being that the changes aim to open up many more viable set-ups, rather than maintain a few (often impressive) niche set-ups.

[Rhodesian]

The upgraded Joint Clans Scout Pistol WAS a nice gun @ QL200 on my froobie pistolero adventurer; the higher min made for a fun toon to play in raid situations. now it's a gun that is worse than other guns I have that aren't suitable for higher AC's, such guns being way better than the new version for non-raid RK situations. If being level 200 still nerfs reward xp on team missions then that ends a rarely logged on career.

[Peltiperse]

This is a nice patch

[Cratertina]

I personaly feel these weapons should still get better damages, faster recharges etc..

Just tested assaultrifle on 220 soldier. 21 second recharge on fullauto. How is that useful at low level for anyone?

Also damage ranges are.. hmm to infeerior to superweapons. in some cases 3-4x worse.

Even if these would be 80% as good as best weapons people would still go for best weapons, while newbies would have ready access to decent gear.

So all of these weapons could get a 100% increase and be right about there.

[Auct]

OK, looking at Assault Rifles then, the current fr00b AR progression (as debated over at AOFroobs ) is complicated and there weren't many decent weapon option that allowed for a smooth progression, and the weapons that could were level locked or rare dyna drops.

I haven't had the chance to test these fully, but an initial look at the damage ranges (and calculating average for comparison) has the following results.

Weapon
QL
AR
FA
Burst
Fling
LVL
min
max
Average
Crit
Attack
Recharge

Bolter Cannon - C0C
100
504
305
255
x
x
34
176
105
67
1.8
1.8

Neutrino Flash
50
301
x
151
x
x
50
160
105
75
1
1

Bolter Cannon - C0C
120
604
365
304
x
x
40
205
122.5
80
1.8
1.8

Hellspinner
84
440
368
329
x
71
51
205
128
100
1.5
2.5

Bolter Cannon - C0C
130
654
394
329
x
x
44
219
131.5
87
1.8
1.8

Bolter Cannon - C0C
200
1003
603
503
x
x
67
318
192.5
133
1.8
1.8

MTI F-88 Cinteration
165
822
x
617
411
x
18
377
197.5
471
1.5
2.5

MTI F-88 Cinteration
175
872
x
654
437
x
20
400
210
500
1.5
2.5

Boosted Hellspinner
190
998
511
494
x
175
157
396
276.5
100
1.5
2.5

Augmented Hellspinner
190
1018
528
516
x
190
201
443
322
100
1.5
2.5

It seems that, as Michi has indicated, these weapons will provide an acceptable "baseline" level of damage across many level ranges, but won't overtake the current dyna/dungeon weapons at their appropriate level.

Now, I know it's more complicated than this (damage emulator/dumper would be more representative) and I don't know if it's "perfect" but I can see the rationale (and I think Michi has shown that he's willing to tweak things if needed).

[fakiiri]

while it is nice that rifles and such have slightly higer dmg than pistols or swords etc. Inits are just too high compared to 1h weapons. should have 1.5/1.5 or even 1/1.5 instead of 2. At full def these are definately way too slow and having 2 1/1 1 hand weps make lot more dmg than 2h ones. Also slap on diffent damage types on these. Most are same atm.

[Mzbiznezz]

I think the only way to compare these weapons is apples to apples. Meaning DON'T try to compare them versus Ofab, SL, AI weapons, only versus other RK froob weapons. Realize these weapons for what they are, a solid choice for froob players lvl 1-199.

[fakiiri]

as side note. neleb rod from what lvl 80 or so dungeon has better damage than these at ql 200

[Dollcet]

Imho the Update is good overall , lowlevels get some halfway decent Weapons to use until they can get theier Hands on our All-Time-Favourites , just think about Fixer before Gammaejectors fit or any 2he User before Scythes etc .
The higher ql Versions have the Potential to close some Gapes in between Dungeon/Dyna Weapons see 1hand blunt with the really large delay between ToTW and IS Skulls .
And best of all even the for Fr00bs underrepresented Weaponlines like Grenade , Melee Energy and Piercing are now back in the game .

Michizure i say " Thumbs up " .

[Jihnna]

Then again; I have a level 200 froob atrox fixer, and I say it's sad that the endgame weapon-setup for him is Blinded Blackbirds dual-wielded. They do not require any kind of twinking to put on at level 200, just rclick in your QL 200 smg/burst implants, then rclick your Blinded Blackbirds, and you're set. To top it off, the damage is ridiculous even with all the add-damage a froob can get (Rings of Power/MotR/Barrow Strength/Add.Rad-dmg jobe-clusters/etc) I tried making a pair of QL 200 Viper IX - C04 just to see if they were better or even comparable, but they're not, they even fall short of the Blinded Blackbirds. The point being; these weapons may close a gap somewhere along the lines of leveling, but they do not add anything to the game for a fixer.

PS.: Fixers need better froob endgame weapons

[Dancingrage]

It really goes without saying that this has been one of my big pet peeves for years, to the point that it's been in my Signature for years. That said, I'd made arguments on changing them to be viable and useful if you'd open up the min damage at lower qls a bit.

Please tell me they at least made ql300 scale to 1500 skill instead of 2000? Still useless hunks of junk if that's the case.

[fakiiri]

Please tell me they at least made ql300 scale to 1500 skill instead of 2000? Still useless hunks of junk if that's the case.

Does not matter as max QL in game is 200 sadly.

[Dancingrage]

While that's unfortunate, my bigger concern was that it didn't require some 1300 ish skill to put most of these on at ql200. That was one of the huge beefs I had with the original set as they were designed. They aren't AI Weapons, they shouldn't scale with the same kind of skill requirement.

[vitriolic-v]

If these are going to be good weapons for froobs to level with, what about easing up on the tradeskill requirements to make them? Not *everything* should require twinking to do. Expecting low level froobs to put together weapon smithing implants sounds pretty lame when they just want to equip the next weapon and keep leveling.

Also, there's the matter of getting the parts. While they commonly drop, lowbie froobs in need of weapons will have trouble killing things by themselves of the appropriate level to drop an appropriate QL part, Andre Bottle charges a lot for his stuff (in terms of lowbie froob credits), they don't sell for billions of credits on the market so people just won't bother putting them up for sale because of the stupid limits to how much can be listed (and to an AO player, two or three mouse clicks must net a few million credits or it isn't worth it). This leaves only Engineer Heath Bridges who can help players who don't have the credits to pay other players to do the work, but he requires level 60 to even talk to you (IIRC; let me know if I'm mis-remembering.)

If you want this to be good for froobs, and you want froobs to bother to stick around long enough to subscribe (or even just view ads if they ever come back):
- I suggest making the parts' QL requirement be 50% (reduced from 90% according to AOU) of weapon QL. Level 15 twinking on QL50 weapon needs to kill level 25ish mobs to get an appropriate QL drop. That's more than adequately challenging.
- I suggest reducing the weapon smithing requirement to 2x (reduced from 5x according to AOU) weapon QL. Again, level 15 building a QL50 weapon needs 100 weapon smithing. If this *really is* for froobs, org city benefits and expansion-only items should not be considered as part of the process of reaching the weapon smithing requirement. This would still require some moderate implanting.
- I suggest removing any present level requirement to get quests from Engineer Heath Bridges.

The modifications to the weapons so far seem like a good start, though. QL200 requirements are halved. I dig it. Also, it provides some easy-to-click-in alternate weapons for expansion players who need to kill mobs that are resistant to certain damage types without having to twink something else on just to kill some dyna. Though, 50% reduction in min damage is a bit steep; how would you feel about a 25% reduction instead?