CCP making changes to EULA and multi boxing rules.

[Freor]

I heartily disagree. I think we'll bleed out if you remove it. It's a mistake that will ruin the economy, the subscriber base and the player base right now.
The issues in PvP are bad, but are minor compared to what would happen with a more general ban that includes 100% of the PvM multiboxers as well (like CCP's)

What would happen is people would have to play normally again, alt-tabbing etc. Or heaven forbid, team others. You can still farm stuff alone without boxing if you want to, likely not Collector etc though - and that place wasnt meant to be soloable in the first place. If we'd lose a few EGpal creditfarmers, I say good riddance.

And if FC feels certain raids need to be soloable, they can change mechanics etc. It doesn't have to happen via boxing software.

[Psikie]

Unfortunately it's also LOWERING a small population.

And before you say "I would like to see some tangible proof of that" stand by GMI at peak time now, and compare with 6 months ago.
Look at the amount of people on LFT compared to 5 months ago
Look at the prices on GMI
Watch the pvm channels, boxers selling services dominates.

What a load, I don't even really care but this is such BS it's ridiculous. I could just as easily said the population decline is from people losing their toon names after server merge and getting random1234 names. Or population decline is from raid bots changing admins. Or population decline from side xp bonus being huge for 1 side.

Or more realistically because it is a 12+ year old game with few updates and expansion that is loosing interest. What a bunch of malarkey you guys spew sometimes. O woe is me I don't like something so it's the root of all AO problems and must be banned or game will die. lol

[jorricane]

What would happen is people would have to play normally again, alt-tabbing etc. Or heaven forbid, team others. You can still farm stuff alone without boxing if you want to, likely not Collector etc though - and that place wasnt meant to be soloable in the first place. If we'd lose a few EGpal creditfarmers, I say good riddance.

And if FC feels certain raids need to be soloable, they can change mechanics etc. It doesn't have to happen via boxing software.

Yeah, but team with who? When? I can safely say that during the hours that I have been able to play recently, there is no chance I will get a BoC on my latest tl7 without buying LR. A tl7 crat (me) sat on LFT every day for about 4 hours a night, watched the bots, spammed chat, and got on exactly 2 beast teams - and lost every single roll on both, for anything that I actually needed.

If they weren't filling a niche in the AO economy, they wouldn't exist, simple as that. There are MB farmers because right now, the economy support MB farmers. Whether it's good or bad is irrelevant - they exist because they are necessary.

And again, I am reasonable certain that boxers aren't bothering to sell to EgPal. These mentions of it will hopefully be moderated, but do me a favor and ask how much they pay per billion. Let's put it this way - you ain't making enough multiboxing to even pay for a Nascence garden key weekly. I know that some people have tons of free time, but selling anything less than a few trillion credits is barely worth the time.

I think it's a lame way to play the game - I have never had less fun than when I MB encounters. But I also think GMI mercantilism is boring as hell. People spend their entire time buying cheap and selling high, and make far more than MB'ers do. Whose to say that's the wrong way to play a game, as long as it's within the rules and they get some form of enjoyment out of it?

[Caloss2]

What a load, I don't even really care but this is such BS it's ridiculous. I could just as easily said the population decline is from people losing their toon names after server merge and getting random1234 names. Or population decline is from raid bots changing admins. Or population decline from side xp bonus being huge for 1 side.

Or more realistically because it is a 12+ year old game with few updates and expansion that is loosing interest. What a bunch of malarkey you guys spew sometimes. O woe is me I don't like something so it's the root of all AO problems and must be banned or game will die. lol

You could say all those things and they would be contributing factors.

As for malarkey, well you can take a horse to water; but you can't make it think.

[jorricane]

What a load, I don't even really care but this is such BS it's ridiculous. I could just as easily said the population decline is from people losing their toon names after server merge and getting random1234 names. Or population decline is from raid bots changing admins. Or population decline from side xp bonus being huge for 1 side.

Or more realistically because it is a 12+ year old game with few updates and expansion that is loosing interest. What a bunch of malarkey you guys spew sometimes. O woe is me I don't like something so it's the root of all AO problems and must be banned or game will die. lol

Exactly - and to contrast the point you were responding to -

The boxers are the ones selling services BECAUSE the population is low - multiboxing is a SYMPTOM of the game being empty, not the CAUSE.

In fact, that's the only logical inference that can be drawn from "And before you say "I would like to see some tangible proof of that" stand by GMI at peak time now, and compare with 6 months ago.
Look at the amount of people on LFT compared to 5 months ago
Look at the prices on GMI
Watch the pvm channels, boxers selling services dominates."

The statement that boxing is lowering the population is actually contrary to everything you list as a reason that boxing is lowering the population - every single item is proof positive why boxing is the only thing keeping things even remotely stable.

Edit: Once again, a thread about boxing has drawn me in and gotten me to argue with...things that do not make any sense. No more, done here.

[Caloss2]

Exactly - and to contrast the point you were responding to -

The boxers are the ones selling services BECAUSE the population is low - multiboxing is a SYMPTOM of the game being empty, not the CAUSE.

In fact, that's the only logical inference that can be drawn from "And before you say "I would like to see some tangible proof of that" stand by GMI at peak time now, and compare with 6 months ago.
Look at the amount of people on LFT compared to 5 months ago
Look at the prices on GMI
Watch the pvm channels, boxers selling services dominates."

The statement that boxing is lowering the population is actually contrary to everything you list as a reason that boxing is lowering the population - every single item is proof positive why boxing is the only thing keeping things even remotely stable.

Edit: Once again, a thread about boxing has drawn me in and gotten me to argue with...things that do not make any sense. No more, done here.

Boxing is not an exclusive cause, but it is a contributing factor; stop thinking in terms of one cause to rule them all and absolutes.

Player A wants to progress and gear up, can't find team so buys EGpal creds and pays a boxer, because player A took this root, player B can't find a team either because player A took that root in the first place, how can this cycle be broken ?

Simple

BAN THE BOXERS.

Player A wants to progress and lvl up, finds player b finds player c etc forms raid group, group raid, raid group learn and grown, group start a guild, guild grows.

This was the basic design of AO, boxing is breaking this simple sub-routine.

[DigitalBath]

Boxing is not an exclusive cause, but it is a contributing factor; stop thinking in terms of one cause to rule them all and absolutes.

Player A wants to progress and gear up, can't find team so buys EGpal creds and pays a boxer, because player A took this root, player B can't find a team either because player A took that root in the first place, how can this cycle be broken ?

Simple

BAN THE BOXERS.

Player A wants to progress and lvl up, finds player b finds player c etc forms raid group, group raid, raid group learn and grown, group start a guild, guild grows.

This was the basic design of AO, boxing is breaking this simple sub-routine.

So the fact I routinely get gear on my toons without multiboxing and without paying multiboxers means what? (note that my work schedule is variable so my "prime time" varies a lot)

The scenario described above is flawed/not adjusted to reality because there is no real NEED to pay multiboxers anything. They just keep items available at current prices instead of the massively inflated ones we would otherwise have without them (this part should be logical and obvious to anyone). This means veterans with the creds can skip content if they want.. just like they always could. (also egpal buyers but that's

As I'm typing this, I'm taking a 15min "snack" break from playing with a few friends on voice chat. We're farming albtraum for PB's and we'll do the PB's after. It's fun and I'd recommend it. We'll leave with ~4 bracers and a nice exchange of jokes and quips. I'm even playing my main (NT) for once!
We're not paying a multiboxer for those bracers. Others could do the same.

Pretty good gear can be obtained with raid bots (iraid prolly being the easiest) from a relatively early level and those run often enough for most people to get geared in a reasonable time frame. The rest of the gear (non ipande/sectors/12m) can be obtained in many easy ways too, including duo'ing mitaar/db2 (many profession combos can do this) or trio'ing it. Or just getting immunity for Vortexx and doing that.

This means you can have endgame or near endgame armor, weapons and utils if you're willing to actually play the game for it. Join an active enough organization (mine has 3 active people, we join up with a few friends of each on voice chat and make things work most days of the week for at least 1-2hrs..). YMMV but I can't complain.
AI armor can be farmed by most people at 220 if they're about halfway through this gearing process, too. Just do ground raids. Don't have a city? Join an active org.

As much as your mileage may indeed vary, this can be done for most new or, perhaps more realistically returning players since the game has low retention atm. It's how I geared most of my characters as a neutral when I didn't have the daily farming setup I currently have with my friends, some of them quite recently.

Multiboxing is bad in towers PvP. I get that. I also get the low population is a huge part of what makes it bad nowadays. It doesn't really drastically reduce/affect total population though.. or I wouldn't have gotten the teams I do. If anything, I'm seeing more players return as of the last month.
In PvM it doesn't scare people away, for sure. It just creates a convenience for some and helps stabilize market prices to some degree by maintaining some supply. Non-multiboxing players can just do what I am doing today.

Funny thing is.. if I streamed this it would still likely get less views than Soju. People like watching multiboxers.

[Psikie]

So the fact I routinely get gear on my toons without multiboxing and without paying multiboxers means what? (note that my work schedule is variable so my "prime time" varies a lot)

The scenario described above is flawed/not adjusted to reality because there is no real NEED to pay multiboxers anything.

+1

But that all makes too much sense.

[Anonimofied]

Multibox is evolution and it is necessary for AO to sustain operational in its current situation. It will be bad idea to ban MB, what FC should do instead is ban the cheaters that uses 3rd softwares to exploits, or release the new engine already.

[Psikie]

I mean seriously, for the few seconds that MB shaves off of plain multi logging i cant believe this subject has even gotten this much attention.

Keybind alpha, alt-tab Keybind alpha, alt-tab Keybind alpha, alt-tab Keybind alpha...wow that takes all of 2 extra seconds per multi logged toon with SAME RESULTS you're dead in pvp.

Get over it.

[Anonimofied]

"Keybind alpha" requires 3rd softwares which is lame in video games, only handicaps who cant play video games needs 3rd softwares to be competitive.

[Caloss2]

So the fact I routinely get gear on my toons without multiboxing and without paying multiboxers means what? (note that my work schedule is variable so my "prime time" varies a lot)

The scenario described above is flawed/not adjusted to reality because there is no real NEED to pay multiboxers anything. They just keep items available at current prices instead of the massively inflated ones we would otherwise have without them (this part should be logical and obvious to anyone). This means veterans with the creds can skip content if they want.. just like they always could. (also egpal buyers but that's

You drifted off there, but

Yes because you have per-existing and established friendships in game, and nobody is forced to use boxers due to instanced content, how about trying some dynas with some friends then stream it as boxers come in and WTF zerg od you all;

Why are a few of you so resistant to having boxing made ban able?

Oh let me guess....

[DigitalBath]

"Keybind alpha" requires 3rd softwares which is lame in video games, only handicaps who cant play video games needs 3rd softwares to be competitive.

I hope you're not serious. But here's a guide for you and anyone else who wrongly assume 3rd party tools are required:

Press F10, go to Preferences -> GUI -> Control Center -> Number of Shortcut bars.
Add one or two to what you already have and know what # they are. For example, add a 5th and a 6th bar.
Load your alpha on to those bars. Even the most refined alpha can be put in two bars, I'm sure. Specials, perks, items and nanos can be put on there.
Press F10 again, go to Key bindings -> Bar_05_01 through Bar 06_10 (or whatever bar # yours is) and set that all to the same key / button.
Optional: Remove that key from your keyboard and have it painted red, with white or yellow lettering for IWIN.

For people using multiple weapons for their alpha, they can use two keys and have the last action on Bar 5 switch the weapon so you can press Bar 6's key for the rest of your alpha.

--

[DigitalBath]

You drifted off there, but

Yes because you have per-existing and established friendships in game, and nobody is forced to use boxers due to instanced content, how about trying some dynas with some friends then stream it as boxers come in and WTF zerg od you all;

Why are a few of you so resistant to having boxing made ban able?

Oh let me guess....

I did it without any of those pre-estabilished friendships on iraid mostly. Especially on my Enforcer and Shade (my org was dead, see below). My friendships helped me through the few couple of weeks because it's a lot more fun doing it with friends and on-demand instead of relying on raid bots for everything. Doesn't make them mutually exclusive.

What's stopping people from making friends and joining orgs? Post-merge the org I was in for over a decade (New Movement, RK2) died out. I joined another org and met new people! They were from RK1 mostly, which made everything pretty fun. I may have lucked out there. But it's a matter of looking for an org that fits you as well as you fit the org. Just like any other game with guild-like systems.

Guessing is guessing. It leads to false assumptions.

I don't farm inf dynas too obsessively. But when I check the spots I don't see multiboxers.
Usually all I see is someone with their crat. Sometimes Crat+1 toon.

When I'm passing by I check Tuq'usk and Creepy most days. Sometimes I go up to Crete.
I never saw multiboxers there. Not saying they don't do it at all, just that I happened not to see them.

I just did gauntlet rush for fun.. Our team has gotten the buff item. There was one multiboxing team against us and they lost the race. We were enf, crat, doc+agent (dual log, not MB) and soldier.

The "devastating effect" of MB is just not there atm outside of tower pvp. And it fades away if you have enough people pvp'ing on the other side, which is what we ALL should aim for.

This should be enough of an answer for most people.. yet.

--

Tell you what, I'll check the spots right now.

--EDIT:

Remains of Creepy Spider -> No one around it.
Tuq'usk isn't up atm. It's being farmed by a 220 clan shade. "(03:51) NAME REDACTED: yeah have been last few but just out of boredom" -> No multiboxing there!
Same shade's also doing Conflagrant.. and just gave me the timer for Tuq'usk. Kindness ftw.
Killed Crete myself.

With some variations, this is what Inferno Dynas have looked like to me for the last few months, at least..
Maybe it looks different when you're obsessively doing inf dragons and the OD wars scale up. But that's silly in itself if you think about it.

[Anonimofied]

Nice thanks for the guide but i thought were talking about MULTIBOX here i guess im in wrong place

[Psikie]

"Keybind alpha" requires 3rd softwares which is lame in video games, only handicaps who cant play video games needs 3rd softwares to be competitive.

WOW...no words i'll just let it speak for itself.

Keybind is not same thing as Hotkey fyi.

[Anonimofied]

And hothey is not the same a shortcut fyi

[DigitalBath]

Nice thanks for the guide but i thought were talking about MULTIBOX here i guess im in wrong place

You replied to Psikie saying you needed 3rd party tools to do what I explained. You don't.

Alphakey - alt tab -> repeat that enough and you'll kill someone with the needed effectiveness. No multiboxing needed. Broadcasting the input to multiple clients just makes it easier/faster. It doesn't "make it".

EDIT: I'll remind you though - I'm NOT a multiboxer. Not by any means. I dual-log often enough on 2 screens while keeping a froob fixer alt on an old laptop for fgrid. I have set up comfortable keybinds and hotbars for when I dual-log.

I tried multiboxing those two characters but I don't like the relative loss of control per character. Maybe it would make sense when playing more characters but I don't think I would have fun doing it.. so I don't do it.

[Traderjill]

An alpha kill for a single player is slightly different than an alpha kill for a multiboxer.. I'm guessing Unindentified was referring to a multiboxer's alpha (which would include damage from all toons at once) since this is a thread discussing multiboxing.. at least that's how I took it, for what its worth.

[DigitalBath]

I mean seriously, for the few seconds that MB shaves off of plain multi logging i cant believe this subject has even gotten this much attention.

Keybind alpha, alt-tab Keybind alpha, alt-tab Keybind alpha, alt-tab Keybind alpha...wow that takes all of 2 extra seconds per multi logged toon with SAME RESULTS you're dead in pvp.

Get over it.

+

"Keybind alpha" requires 3rd softwares which is lame in video games, only handicaps who cant play video games needs 3rd softwares to be competitive.

@Traderjill:

I responded under the impression the latter was a reply to the former which would make it not about multiboxing, but multilogging. I apologize if I got UNIDENTIFIED wrong on this one.