Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Add dmg vs crit breakdown

  1. #1

    Add dmg vs crit breakdown

    I'm no master of shade, neither do I have one.

    But I wanted to assess for myself the actual breakdown of what add dmg is worth since the add dmg to perks and procs patch.


    This calc requires a fair number of steps so I'll break the calc down into it's respective parts:


    Choosing your perk setup

    this perk setup: http://auno.org/ao/perk.php?saveid=89956

    SL perks

    Piercing mastery:
    stab 60s/30s
    double stab 60s/30s
    perforate 60s/30s
    lacerate 60s/30s
    impale 60s/30s
    gore 60s/30s
    hecatomb 60s/30s
    2x7=14

    sublime rapport
    exultation 60s/12s = 5
    disorientate 60s/40s =1.5
    dimensional fist 60s/16s (but requires ethereal touch to run, but ethereal touch can be up 100%) = 3.75
    convulsive tremor 60s/60s = 1
    5+3.75+1.5+1=11.25

    totemic rites
    ritual of devotion 60s/40s = 1.5
    devour vigour 60s/40s = 1.5
    ritual of zeal 60s/40s = 1.5
    devour essence 60s/40s = 1.5
    ritual of spirit 60s/40s = 1.5
    devour vitality 60s/40s = 1.5
    ritual of blood 60s/40s = 1.5
    7x1.5 = 10.5

    AI perks
    diffuse 60s/90s = 0.67
    chaos ritual 60s/90s = 0.67
    crave 60s/65s = 0.92
    feast 60s/65s =0.92
    bot confinement 60s/120s =0.5
    bore (dmg no effect)
    0.67+0.67+0.92+0.92+0.5= 3.68

    procs
    blackheart (5%) yellow proc (about 767dmg)
    siphon being (5%) yellow proc (drain/heal 580 dmg)
    for true DPS, you'd go with concealed surprise (blue proc) 134 dmg

    so two 5% procs from LE, but also nano procs:

    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=224167 is a 26% chance

    Assessing white damage

    Count number of hits/minute:

    36 normal hits, 10 fast attack
    not sure if procs fire off backstab but I think they can, and I assume they can proc off sneak attacks. I'll assume 1.5 Backstabs/minute (40s recharge), and 1 sneak attack/minute for total of 46.5 attacks per minute:

    Assessing proc chance

    46.5*5%+46.5*5%+46.5*26% = 16.74 proc chances/minute

    Totaling number of contacts/minute

    Perks+procs = 14+11.25+10.5+3.68+16.74 = 56.09
    normal/crit affected = 45.5
    total attacks/minute = 101.59

    Next assess crit damage benefit

    Assuming these are the weapons of choice:

    Improved hacked Medi-blade
    315-360 (500)
    Max AR 2650

    Deceit of the Xan
    300-350 (500)
    2750 max AR

    The two different weapons have two different damage ranges and or max AR modifiers.

    Calculating each AR multiplier separately:

    DotX
    [[(2750-1000)*0.3]/400+3.5]= 4.8125
    and for medi-blade:
    [[(2650-1000)*0.3]/400+3.5]= 4.7375

    we get an AR crit modified bonus of:
    4.8125*(500)=2406 for DotX and
    4.7375*(500)=2369 for medi blade

    Now since the mediblade is on the right hand the fast attack come off that weapon, which means the crit modifier bonus is skewed down to be dominated by the mediblade:

    DotX: 18*2406 = 43308
    Mediblade: (18+10)*2369 = 66325
    1%*(43308+66325)=1096

    *note I'm assuming the crit chance won't matter on BS/SA's since they will likely cap - however this IS an assumption, and I am not sure if critical rate affects these specials in the traditional sense.

    Hence: 1096 is the gain in damage per minute for 1% increase for continuous average fighting.

    Comparing crit bonus gained per minute in terms of add dmg bonus dmg

    So.. drumroll please... 1% crit equates to:

    1096/101.59 = 10.79 add dmg


    Conclusions

    That means that shades, despite having so many gazillion perks and procs/minute, still have quite a low value on add damage compared to, say, keeper (1% crit = 16 add dmg), for crit rate.

    So, if each 1% crit is equivalent to 10.79 add dmg, it means that it is extremely close in value to 300 CM/CC (at 10 add dmg per piece) compared to, say, 1 piece of DB gear with 1% crit.

    I will say now that despite the rigour in this calculation, that BASE perk damage will drop when you remove a piece of CM/CC due to the nature of perk damage being reliant on "specialhit" which basically increases in damage/QL for each point of base skill (for shade this is usually piercing, whereas for keeper it is 2he, for MA it is MA skill etc.). The bottom line is, it will be a close tradeoff, but for 1% crit adding pieces of gear, it's probably a safe bet that 300 CC/CM will be JUST as good if not slightly better.

  2. #2
    Except Gatester proved that AR to AAD difference of the target has a direct correlation to crit as well, it's not that clear cut.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Notcrattey View Post
    Except Gatester proved that AR to AAD difference of the target has a direct correlation to crit as well, it's not that clear cut.
    I can vouch for this, my enforcer at some point while doing some group activity had like 1500+ AAO from teaming with crat, keeper and having chall/chall procs going and I was critting like every other hit when he only had like a 5% crit chance or something.
    Brofist 220/30/70 Engineer
    Techbro 220/30/70 Nano-Technician

  4. #4
    Awesome. But that's not the purpose of the calc. The purpose of the calc is to help players assess whether they want to use Dchest or DB chest, purple hud 3 or a 12% scope... Igoc or MOTR.

    Gatester is a smart guy and he put together a lot of great calcs. But I don't see the relevance of mentioning his work here unless you have some solid evidence that you can get 100% crit rate with no crit adding items due to AR vs def differential.

    Edit: My comment isn't right... I think there is relevance, but I'm wondering if he was able to document the numbers or if it merely a gut feel.

    I also can attest to the validity - even on my 170 keeper I used to be able to see about 8-9% crit rate even without a single % modifier in my setup.

    What makes that a difficult modifier to consider is that the AR to Def ratio will be different on all mobs/people/etc. so you'll have variation every few seconds of play.

    While it's a valid observation, and it's even more defendable if there are some good data taken, this calculation is not meant to show anything about AR modifiers or crit outside of what 1% crit is worth from the sole perspective of what you might swap out in add dmg.
    Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; Oct 6th, 2014 at 10:24:10.

  5. #5
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    Shade perks scale with piercing skill.

    If i remember correctly the step happens every 500 points of raw piercing skill (no aao included).

    My atrox shade can get over 2500 piercing with 5 parts of strong based armor and ofab gloves. Without those ai parts im way below.

    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=225652 here is 2000 piercing hecatomb Melee -6369 .. -12229
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=225654 2500 piercing hecatomb Melee -7059 .. -14309

    I had both of those setups (strong vs db armor mostly), strong gives feeling of better dmg.

    I see many shades with kuma tonfa. Thats the question for me. So far i wasnt ODed by any of them, i usee dual melee sabas and melee dmg rings. That would be a huge loss with energy dmg weapon. No idea whats better.
    Last edited by Ciex; Oct 9th, 2014 at 13:34:24.
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciex View Post
    I see many shades with kuma tonfa. Thats the question for me. So far i wasnt ODed by any of them
    and you shouldn't get OD'd. MA has never been most dd. ever.

    and mcknukcle, you'r calcs are missing +dmg affecting nano damages.
    Last edited by Otansaanpas; Oct 9th, 2014 at 14:02:49.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
    ---
    How much is enough?
    Member of Halinallet!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Otansaanpas View Post
    and you shouldn't get OD'd. MA has never been most dd. ever.

    and mcknukcle, you'r calcs are missing +dmg affecting nano damages.
    I have it included on proc dmg, not on your health drain.

    Edit: Actually, that's not true, my orgmate has a setup with shade touch, and maxed MA skill and he's ODing other shades by a pretty significant margin.

    Mind you, he was only running with 3 defensive perks in acrobat... so he didn't even have DOF. but still he was ODing the two other 220 shades in team by upwards of 60k dpm. dunno what gear my mate has but the other two shades looked like CC.
    Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; Oct 10th, 2014 at 00:16:43.

  8. #8
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    ST you can use with piercing weapons so it doesnt really matter in discussion about tonfas. Spirit dissolution doesnt scale with skill and can be landed on most mobs without any skill in ma, you just need to land drains first.
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Edit: Actually, that's not true, my orgmate has a setup with shade touch, and maxed MA skill and he's ODing other shades by a pretty significant margin.

    Mind you, he was only running with 3 defensive perks in acrobat... so he didn't even have DOF. but still he was ODing the two other 220 shades in team by upwards of 60k dpm. dunno what gear my mate has but the other two shades looked like CC.
    well i doubt he will od real DD shade with piercing weapon (Pm 10 Tr10 SP 10 SR10). The amount of add dmge you get in those setup is amazing and with SR up you do 5K+ crit with medi+deceit. That is with perfected bracer+masterpiece, no acdc, no dmge ring,no beserk spirit and without any AI part.

    http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2...5#.VDfIBVczJNs that is without DD setup (mosly db armor+nomad boot+ssd+ofab glove and 15% scope)
    http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2...8#.VDfTiVczJNs with 2 lowbiz AI gen
    http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2...8#.VDfT_VczJNs SL heck (Osb Ibehe)
    Last edited by dritst; Oct 10th, 2014 at 13:45:26.
    Eilistrae 220/30/70 MA equip pic //Araushne 216/30 NT equip pic // Nhaundar 220/30 pic equip // Ahlysaaria 220/30 equip
    Dritst 220/30 Agent equip pic // Vhaeraun 218/30 fixer // Dylinrae 217/30 trader // Seldszar 220/29 adv
    Nhaundar 216/16 Trox enf <3 equip

    * http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=544974 <3 ty, how some ppl can be
    * S*rovi1: cant log in game funcom not responding Mrdex: they're translating Mrdex: give em some time.
    * Phante: whining is directly proportional with incompetence imo the more you sux the more youll cry and ask for stupid stuff.
    * [Provision]: 500m if you can even dent me You gained 103 PVP Solo Score.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    my orgmate has a setup with shade touch, and maxed MA skill and he's ODing other shades by a pretty significant margin.
    Doesn't mean anything. I have that setup also and i used to OD most shades. Still, medi+deceit is the best choise if you want to dd.
    MA isnt bad, and i do that for lolz, but seriously, its the case of how focused you are, what buffs/debuffs and cooldowns you use.

    Your friend most likely ODs other shades because only viable way to play MA-shade is to go all out. MA sucks for soloing and pvp, so you are only left with team-dps.
    Ask your friend to put medi-deceits and he still will OD slackers in CC.

    anyways, your conclusion is right. CC/CM is better than 1% crit. which is interesting, FC still makes gear that are worse than what we had in 2006.. talk about progression.
    Last edited by Otansaanpas; Oct 10th, 2014 at 14:05:46.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
    ---
    How much is enough?
    Member of Halinallet!

  11. #11
    you don't need a combined MA weapon to use shade touch.

    Overall it's better to use 2x piercing weaps due to lower AR with the tonfa/shen.

    You just need to Max MA skill and obviously buff it/use armour that raises it to take advantage of the perk specialhits.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dritst View Post
    well i doubt he will od real DD shade with piercing weapon (Pm 10 Tr10 SP 10 SR10). The amount of add dmge you get in those setup is amazing and with SR up you do 5K+ crit with medi+deceit. That is with perfected bracer+masterpiece, no acdc, no dmge ring,no beserk spirit and without any AI part.

    http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2...5#.VDfIBVczJNs that is without DD setup (mosly db armor+nomad boot+ssd+ofab glove and 15% scope)
    http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2...8#.VDfTiVczJNs with 2 lowbiz AI gen
    http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2...8#.VDfT_VczJNs SL heck (Osb Ibehe)
    hi, im the shade in question (nightedge/metaa). You missunderstood here, im still using piercing weapon! just had one tonfa in left hand. I removed it cause i'd need a second one for ma combined to be active, and that wont work since R-hand need to be piercing, right.Also having Brawl is irrelevant in pvm. Tho they are piercing weapon with ma combined out there, but not really end game (unless luck with QL..). Please do your DPM test on punching ball, here you will do about your max DPM, for testing purpose it's the best place imo, cause you can do many run in a short amount of time and parameter are almost the same every time ( Crit may vary a little bit tho).

    And yes tonfa or or not i can do that DD or even more on a single mob because ( 5K+ crit just as deceit with symbiosis running)...hence all the testing I've done, you can do good DD with any end game weapon in your left hand.On the other side the setup will more likely change that amount from good to sick that's about it , so alpha 's choice, perk choice and obv gear choice.. I did a few inf hard with a full defensive shade (Newbeez) and while i was doing 6M dmg (253K-ish) he did 5M(200K-ish) on consistant basis SO it not worth loosing LOTS of survivability for so little dpm delta (200K is sick already). I just wanna see where shade dpm hit the wall and start to be flat
    Also dont forget melee disconnect lower by a lot your dpm. You're showing dpm on a single target, for the purpose of testing it's right, but not realistic. This goes for the dpm number you will find below, they are not realistic. self buffed only btw.



    here a few logs on punching ball I averaged (3 try per category)
    Setup is :
    blade+deceit , full offensive perk line, mixed CM, evade back & shoes, ofab glove & head.
    ( fyi damage boost delta from totemic is +275 or -275 ~ ish with or without symbiosis)

    #1
    using shade touch perk not using symbiosis line
    Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
    You ( 1.402.698 / 395.100 / 176 / 100 / 56% / 14.651 )

    #2
    using all the ligne including symbiosis ( not waiting for boosted damage buff runnning out so wasting normal damage buff from TR, therefore running w/o dmg buff for little amount of time)
    Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
    You ( 1.406.222 / 401.760 / 171 / 104 / 60% / 16.608 )

    #3
    using all the line ( missed to buff one totemic chain with symbiosis so even with this misstake I did better than the two other try, wanted to show for the purpose of the fact that a few misstake doesnt matter much)
    Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
    You ( 1.400.920 / 404.100 / 172 / 96 / 55% / 15.010 )

    #4
    using all the line but shade touch line ( not waiting for boosted dmg buff to run out)
    Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
    You ( 1.402.079 / 378.900 / 184 / 103 / 55% / 13.489 )

    #5 using all the line but shade touch line (waiting for boosted TR buff to run out so I can apply normal TR buff while symbiosis on CD)
    Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
    You ( 1.402.421 / 358.400 / 182 / 102 / 56% / 13.072 )

    #6 with tonfa it was about 387K dpm w/o symbiosis so acrobat and cib9, but i didnt kept the log, only remember the amount :/


    I can conclude a few things from these and from my personnal experience, of course open to critics and testing hasnt ended yet (need to test SP perk line hard)

    1 -shade touch own symbiosis fairly easy (solo game play)
    2 -waiting on TR boosted symbiosis damage buff to apply regular TR buff = loss of dpm
    3 -left hand weapon is irrelevant for pvm purpose. pvp is another story I suppose
    4 - god damn melee disconnect make me mad, i'd like more time before a perk chain break, so frustrating. Add in lag and it's even worse.
    5 - defensive setup seems too good to pass it
    Last edited by Faramaz; Oct 13th, 2014 at 11:44:54.

  13. #13
    Well i tryed on punch bag but result are kinda weird

    http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=m...8#.VDukqlda8ZE
    1: 485,027 : Nhaundar : 95.0% | 469,380 | 40-9-141

    http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1...8#.VDumOVda8ZE
    1: 1,388,218 : Nhaundar : 96.5% | 460,182 | 115-24-539
    Last edited by dritst; Oct 13th, 2014 at 11:16:22.
    Eilistrae 220/30/70 MA equip pic //Araushne 216/30 NT equip pic // Nhaundar 220/30 pic equip // Ahlysaaria 220/30 equip
    Dritst 220/30 Agent equip pic // Vhaeraun 218/30 fixer // Dylinrae 217/30 trader // Seldszar 220/29 adv
    Nhaundar 216/16 Trox enf <3 equip

    * http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=544974 <3 ty, how some ppl can be
    * S*rovi1: cant log in game funcom not responding Mrdex: they're translating Mrdex: give em some time.
    * Phante: whining is directly proportional with incompetence imo the more you sux the more youll cry and ask for stupid stuff.
    * [Provision]: 500m if you can even dent me You gained 103 PVP Solo Score.

  14. #14
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    I can add I was wrong with my theory about perks scalling with piercing skill. I get top ql hecatomb (340 dot ticks) with less than 2500 piercing and less than 3000 ar. Maybe its ar and top ql comes with 2500? No idea tbh but pure piercing buffing items (ofab gloves, piercing ncus etc.) aint worth using at all for dmg setups.

    I also think that symbiosis is broken and should be fixed so it gives better TR all the time. Spending 10 perks to have better dmg for half of the time and worse for other doesnt make much sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by dritst View Post
    Well i tryed on punch bag but result are kinda weird

    http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=m...8#.VDukqlda8ZE

    1: 485,027 : Nhaundar : 95.0% | 469,380 | 40-9-141
    Try this on longer run? How high is your crit rating? 40%? Do you have dmg buffs like 12m? Do you start dmg dump before fight or during it once you have TR and drains up? Whats your +melee dmg before perks?
    Last edited by Ciex; Oct 13th, 2014 at 11:21:35.
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

  15. #15
    i did a 3 min run result is the same. But i'm not in dd setup at all, i can solo scary* and other stuf and i doubt dd setup will be able to do same. (erf i even dont have Might of revenant or coon on it :X lazy shade )

    result: http://oi57.tinypic.com/16h22iu.jpg 3 min punching
    Last edited by dritst; Oct 13th, 2014 at 11:54:58.
    Eilistrae 220/30/70 MA equip pic //Araushne 216/30 NT equip pic // Nhaundar 220/30 pic equip // Ahlysaaria 220/30 equip
    Dritst 220/30 Agent equip pic // Vhaeraun 218/30 fixer // Dylinrae 217/30 trader // Seldszar 220/29 adv
    Nhaundar 216/16 Trox enf <3 equip

    * http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=544974 <3 ty, how some ppl can be
    * S*rovi1: cant log in game funcom not responding Mrdex: they're translating Mrdex: give em some time.
    * Phante: whining is directly proportional with incompetence imo the more you sux the more youll cry and ask for stupid stuff.
    * [Provision]: 500m if you can even dent me You gained 103 PVP Solo Score.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dritst View Post
    i did a 3 min run result is the same. But i'm not in dd setup at all, i can solo scary* and other stuf and i doubt dd setup will be able to do same.
    sure thing dd setup more like glass canon or so,

    your first try , somthing went wrong , idk what. need to kill the punching ball yup
    of course dont be OSB ^^ I can see you have dmg buff running, that change everything I suppose ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciex View Post
    I can add I was wrong with my theory about perks scalling with piercing skill. I get top ql hecatomb (340 dot ticks) with less than 2500 piercing and less than 3000 ar. Maybe its ar and top ql comes with 2500? No idea tbh but pure piercing buffing items (ofab gloves, piercing ncus etc.) aint worth using at all for dmg setups.

    I also think that symbiosis is broken and should be fixed so it gives better TR all the time. Spending 10 perks to have better dmg for half of the time and worse for other doesnt make much sense to me.
    symbiosis need a fix right. it's clunky as it is, dmg buff need to last longer than it's refresh that's it or at least same so you can realy chain it
    Last edited by Faramaz; Oct 13th, 2014 at 11:42:06.

  17. #17
    Sup folks,

    This is a pretty nifty thread here so jus thought id post my 2 cents.

    http://i57.tinypic.com/2mesvwy.png Thats with PM/SP/TR/SR 10 and CoNC/CoLI/Shadow 10.

    http://i59.tinypic.com/2vruah4.png Thats with PM/SP/TR 10, ST 7, SR 3 and CoNC/CoLI/Shadow 10

    Personally punching bag test is stupid to me since it has such low def and you crit way more than you really should, but it is the easiest to do so no biggy. Both these perks set ups are near equal when played right. Each has its own advantage in diferent situations.

    Both of these shades are in 100% identical gear set ups. The only difference is the perks.

    I've tried pretty much tried every different type of set up you can on shades. I've done full def all the way to my current full suicide set up and all sorts of mixes inbetween. To me, full out dmg set up is the way to go. The extra def just does not beat out the pure dmg gain for me. Of course everyone has their own play style and own preferences, and every set up doesnt work out for everyone else.

    Just noticed that one shade had on MoTR and the other had IGoC, rest was the same tho.
    Last edited by Fadedboah; Oct 13th, 2014 at 21:30:06.

  18. #18
    Hi Bo im your biggest fan <3
    Devil Inside

    Spead 220/30 Fixer Fpea 170/24 Agent
    Default1025 144/18 Trader Imaganker 75/8 Agent
    Franklucas 30/3 Trader Battleprod 13/0 Trader
    And exactly 137 other alts that you dont need to know

  19. #19
    lol boah, that's some awesome damage bro!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    lol boah, that's some awesome damage bro!
    indeed, using might add in for a bit sure.
    nice crit rate ! what's your base chance? I think SP and your gears make it better, hence a great gap in punching bag dpm.
    when you say full suicide set, you mean all offensive alpha including feet?

    ho and last question, you are playing crat now arent you?(might be wrong) easier time doing damage I guess?
    thank you for passing by
    Last edited by Faramaz; Oct 14th, 2014 at 01:49:34.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •