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Thread: [TEST] Going 1 to 220 as a noob MP

  1. #1

    [TEST] Going 1 to 220 as a noob MP

    Since a massive NPE related patch with a big impact in MPs in general have hit Test Server, I decided to just go there and test it and check how it affect us overall.

    I'm going to share here my personal experience as I go through the game and point out what I think it is good and what is still lacking. I'm also going to try analize everything as a new player (not sure if I'll sucess).

    Feel free to post here your experiences as well. They are all welcome.

    P.s.: I'm slowly going back to my professional duties and I'm deeply sorry for my vanishment.
    __________________________________________________ ___________

    Starting character - Minilain Nanomage MP

    • Arete Landing - lvl 1:
      • Looking around and see a bunch of mobs and one NPC (with a blue name) - good. NPC (and friendly target) HP bar is right behind the shortcut bar - bad.
      • Mousehover him and it says to right click - good. A question mark saying "Shift+Click" - good. Talking about "Ctrl + 4" - good. It is really easy to figure out you can move windows around - good.
      • Nothing mention inventory, how to equip items, uploading nanos and so on - half bad. No mention about other menus as well - half bad. Not bad because those are some game intuitive stuff, not good because several people just want to pewpew and go check nothing on their screen.
      • Nothing mention Pet Info window when pet is casted (assuming the noob me already figured out I can right click to upload your magics) - bad. No help info about pets - bad. No awfull green tips windows - awesome.
      • You are sorta forced to explore a little to make your way out - overall good.
      • Overall: Doesn't threat the player as a complete stupid with those 'use wasd to move' instructions. Missing key basic and profession related tutorial.

    • Arete Landing - lvl 2~15:
      • Skill popup window! - good. Sugested IP distribution - still awfully bad. You start with a bow and it sugests 2hb? Maybe it should contain only real core MP sugestions and a quest, a popup, anything that explains about good MP main weapons? Give more startup weapons?
      • Easy to figure out NPCs with blue name are quest givers/related - good.
      • Pet not returing to owner when attacking a mob and master running away is still going - bad.
      • LE perk window pop up at lvl 5 - good. No explanation at all - bad.
      • Money is not a problem while in Arete - good.
      • Tradeskills, Insurance, Hacking, Implants explained - GREAT.
      • Patrick killed me :/
      • Quest to buy new nanos - ok. No NCU explanation - bad.
      • Poison Bracers changing your damage to poison - Awesome :3
      • Nowhere talk about ammo and that you actually really need arrows to fire with teh bow - bad. Nothing like pet tutorial so far...
      • Lvl 5 custom made implants are not that expensive. Due implant quest, a newbie may figure out how to make more of then. New implant icons are amazing.
      • SL perk window pop up! Spend a point in Channel Rage. Action window does not pop.... - bad. Channel rage still requires you to target the pet - bad.
      • Just noticed that there are no description about Mezz pet scaling with player nano skills...
      • Arete mobs have too much NR, ever for MPs.
      • Some quests are way too easily misseable. So does that credit card.
      • Reets are way too social '-'
      • Wrath of the Leet King is awesome!
      • Found shaddy Aliens. They are the hardest thing to find here. Only a true adventurous soul would go there w/o a quest. That should be anything directing players to there. Really.
      • Note about Medinos: It seems to have more nano, takes a while more for it to run out of Nano. - good I supose.
      • Note about Meatballs: Still old untouched ones. Only the nano itself changed, the casted pets are exactly the same. :/
      • Best Level to leave Arete: 15.
      • Level you adquire doing all quests: 14.
      • Level you adquire with only main ID quest: 6.
      • Overall: All of the profession related tutorial and explanations are missing. Some of quests are easily misseable. Still better than Noob Isle - explain implants, tradeskills and such. Arete give more than enough money to survive inside Arete (and get full lvl 5 impl set)
      • Personal sugestions:
        • Tutorials! It is missing. Right now it is just like Noob Isle where people ignores Brandon and go left;
        • Any sort of Quest marks on Quest givers, blue names isn't cutting it;
        • Put 'Find a Friend' quest in ID chain (or at least make it easier to find);
        • Rework the GUI for at least separate Chat and Combat in diferent windows;
        • Put any sort of filter in Implant Clusters vendor! It is way too confusing for newbies (and most vets) to figure out which cluster go where just with ingame info. Something like "Filter - Head" or something like that would be amazing;
        • Aliens should drain less nano. It hurt lowbies way too much;
        • MP nukes! It should have at least 2 nukes on NPE, since you can go easily till lvl 15 and first nuke is useless;
        • Rework the MP nukes: low level nukes does too lil damage compared with pets and weapons, waste too much nano. No worth casting, besides the debuff;
        • Make Mezz pet scale like Attack ones;
        • Heal pet still runs out of nano. A LOT. I thought it would be fixed ;
        • Give MP diferent options of weapon. Make it a quest to choose your way to fight or something;
        • Try design creation weapon to be on core MP set till the beginning (prolly controvertial)


    • Rubika ICC - lvl 15:
      • Average shop prices are outrageous - awfull bad. They scale till ql 200 - good.
      • Quest guiding you to Subway! - good.
      • Quest guiding to Shadowlands!!! - good.
      • Mail terminal quest - O.o good.
      • Shop design are awesome. Yet it is way too dificult to guess they are shops at first glance and what exactly they sell.
      • No low ql clusters on Mainland? Seriously? - AWFUL BAD.
      • There is still an awful lack of okayish weapons to buy on shops - bad.
      • Nothing talks about The Grid - bad.
      • I failed to find the Cultist in ICC without help. He is way too hidden.
      • Agencies for daily missions aren't hard to find. But clue that you need to r-click those agency propaganda is elusive.
      • MP Nano deck in nano shop. So is Odin's Other Eye - O.o.
      • Nothing tells you about rolling missions and about mission rolable only nanos - really bad.
      • I'm still waiting that "Learn the profession related stuff" quest to pop out...

    • Rubika ICC - Subway - lvl 15~25:
      • Subway seems to remain the same. - not good.
      • Pet scaling starts to kick off. I just casted a lvl 28 pet when lvl 20 just with ql 5 implants.
      • Subway does not provide a good ammout of money and xp - really bad. So I moved to missions for a while.
      • I may be unlucky, but I saw 0 Morphing Memory.
      • Nowhere is stated Subway is level locked to 25.
      • I know I already said it, but... Healpet runs out of nano way too quickly!!!
      • Overall: No real diference MPwise in subway. You are squish, your pets are slow, healpet runs out of nano, you are stuck with gray mezz pet. Good news is that first Chant is casteable on lvl 25 with ql 50 implants. You also get sightly higher attack pets due pet scale and the reduced requirements (redution is low at low level).
      • Personal sugestions:
        • Make Subway give a little more xp and credits.
        • Tone it up a little in level, since you are more prone to leave Arete at a higher level than Noob Isle.
        • Move Bio Comunitor and Vagabond Cloak quest NPCs to ICC.
        • Put back the icons (may be diferent ones ofc) above shops.
        • Scale lower ql items prices down.
        • Either tell somewhere, something, somewhat, that some Nanos are only adquired inside missions. OR sell then at nano shops for higher prices.
        • Paint red all the requirements you dont have on nanos and items you see in shops. Just like NaCost already is.


    • Shadowlands JOBE and Nascence - lvl 20~30:
      • World Map does not show in Jobe - WTF.
      • Nothing says you need a Map upgrade to see Shadowlands in minimap - bad.
      • Jobe and Nascence map nano is too expensive for newbies - bad.
      • You are directed to Specialization books guy. And he explain about the book things - great. He does give you a quest to get Mariner's book!!!! - AWESOME.
      • In my way to Nascence (sadly not directed by the quest) I found our delightfull Drake Rodriguez, and he opens conversation - great.
      • Quests directing to Nasc Key Quest is kinda doubled. Both Drake and Emissary of Jobe gives the quest to go find the Scientists - good? intented?
      • Quest progressions through Nascence seems to ge right when you actually find it - good I supose.
      • Shadowland Dynas are not that easy to see - okish.
      • The Mariner's Father actually gives a quest to be returned - great.
      • Guys of IPS actually explains pretty well about insignia and gardens (never noticed it).
      • Noticed those lvl 110 Spiders roaming around Nascence. DAFUQ
      • I just stepped in "Find Ergo" quest. It should not be so hidden
      • Personal sugestions:
        • As Subway, Nascence should be tonned up a bit.
        • Make Map for Jobe areas.
        • Put a NPC in Jobe Platform to great players. Also make him direct you to IPS shop instead of IPS guy outside ICC?
        • Make bosses a little more showy. Who would guess something like Menacing Spirit is actually a boss?


    • Rubika ICC - lvl 25:
      • Since it is basically impossible to newbies to make enough money for anything but nanos, from now on I'll steal things from Auto to do minors twinks and get minors stuffs.
      • I found a grid quest - good; with confusing description - bad; that is a requirement to use RK Recall Beacon - okaayish; not mentioned in patch notes - awfull.
      • Elusive Windcaller Karrec gives quest to TotW - great. He is way to hidden - bad.
      • A non blue named guy explains about missions... Some more clues here please?
      • Found quest givers directing to Foremans and Smuglers Den - great.
      • That Cyborg Infiltration daily is still sorta bugged. All cyborgs outside barracks aggroes and they are pretty capable of instant kill any newbie - awful.
      • Everything surdenly become cakewalk after ql 50 implants agregated with Chant and lvl 50ish attack pet. This Chant change is amazing.

    • Rubika TotW - lvl 25~60:
      • TotW seems the same so far.
      • TotW is doable okayish at lvl 25 - great.
      • Cultists level varies to much - bad.
      • TotW has being a good place to level up and brings a okayish ammount of creds (could be a bit more creds, but it is still ok).
      • Soloed Defender of the Three easily at lvl 30. With the general nano debuff + nuke debuff it stopped nuking completely.
      • Soloed The Curator as well. He didnt stop nuking though.
      • XP starts to get lower when you hit around level 45 - it should be looked at.
      • Guardian of the Three blocks the patch to a good xp area, just like Eumenides did long ago in Subway - not good.
      • On level 60 I could solo everything, including Aztur, with Newcomer and ql 100 implants. Thats obviously because I'm playin paid, on froob the best would be Lien.
      • Overall: TotW still remains a great place to play and level. It gives ok creds, good xp and it is fun.
      • Personal sugestions:
        • Move goddamn Windcaller Karrec to a findeable place! Thats it.


    • Shadowlands JOBE and Nascence - lvl 45~70:
      • If you are the explorer player type, you can find good and reliable way to level up at a smooth pace - ok.
      • Mobs around the MP level can be killed smoothly with noob (or almost noob) equipment - good.
      • Note: Reseted from Bow to 1hb for testing purposes.
      • Did Nascense progression quest. It is small, and sorta cool for a newbie. Ergo should be less elusive and moved to Frontier Outskirts? (him and the whole island )
      • Tried to solo Hecklers on lvl 50. It sucessed. - great
      • After level 45~50ish, only Hecklers gives good xp in Nascense. It probably means you should move to Elysium at this level, but we all know that it is not that wise as a newbie.
      • Creation weapons besides AAD shield are not just awfull, they are.... as bad as shop buyable weapons - awfull bad



    More info soon(tm) - last change on: set/15 Updating...
    Last edited by lainbr; Sep 15th, 2014 at 15:15:48.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  2. #2
    Reserved
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  3. #3
    Also RESERVED
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  4. #4
    Hey stranger

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Hey stranger
    :/ Hai Esssch
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  6. #6
    Yezus, I thought this crap in the NPE would already have been worked out. It almost sounds like the NPE is still in alphabetum. Keep up the fine work Sir.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomium View Post
    I say this with all love and humor, but...

    haters gonna hate.

  7. #7
    First thing I noticed, just like you was the pet Window.. I was thinking to myselg why on earth they don't make it default for pet classes to have it. Or at least explain.
    I was also disappointed by the fact fc forces us to go for bow option (which isnt that viable till tl7 really...)

    Also, ip suggestuon needs a huge att overlook.
    Valhall Guardians

    Thapetowner 220 Meta-Physicist
    Hyimoliver 220 Soldier
    Ihatemyself 200 Shade
    Hardcore 200 Adventurer
    Ilovetokill 170 Agent
    Ilovetodrain 150 Trader
    Oxiahe 150 Doctor
    Critterz 150 Martial-Artist
    Awaaa 74 Soldier

  8. #8
    Welcome back! Great stuff .

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliveerz View Post
    I was also disappointed by the fact fc forces us to go for bow option (which isnt that viable till tl7 really...).
    I totally agree. There should be at least 3~4 options: bow, 2hb, 1hb and 1hb shield.
    I really wanted to see bow creations as well :/ And low lvl creation weaps.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliveerz View Post
    I was also disappointed by the fact fc forces us to go for bow option
    Why isn't pistol a viable option?
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Notcrattey View Post
    Why isn't pistol a viable option?
    Not enough skill to use higher than base Lust without several pieces of Supple-based armor. Base Lust is only mediocre damage at best. Very very difficult to get the skills to equip Lust or Peh'wer and Troa'ler for PvP, even with CSS set. Especially since we'll need the nano skills from CS and eye symb for Scourge pet, if we ever get it.

    And this is coming from one of the very few pistol MPs. 1hb or bow will be the way to go post-18.7.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Not enough skill to use higher than base Lust without several pieces of Supple-based armor. Base Lust is only mediocre damage at best. Very very difficult to get the skills to equip Lust or Peh'wer and Troa'ler for PvP, even with CSS set. Especially since we'll need the nano skills from CS and eye symb for Scourge pet, if we ever get it.

    And this is coming from one of the very few pistol MPs. 1hb or bow will be the way to go post-18.7.
    I don't doubt what you're saying, i am somewhat weirded out by it tho since Pistols are the only weapons MP's have full perk support for as well as full support for fling/burst/pistol through Control Alphas. I generally recommend noob MP's to go pistol, guess imma have to stop doing that.
    Last edited by Notcrattey; Today at 05:51:45. Reason: Didn't actually edit it, was a mistake!

  13. #13
    I think in 18.7 1hb just wins. The flexibility is unmatched. You can go Asp/Esa for DD (pet buff and nano damage modifier may be worth as much as dual wielding a second asp), or even better Abandonment/Esa or Abandonment/Asp, Dual SoZ is a very strong defensive build (not just the AAD either - between the extra 210 NR from the second shield and the 200 NR from Odin's, we've got pretty good nano-resistance now), or Asp/SoZ for decent defense and reasonable damage output. I'm tentatively planning on IPRing out of 2hb once this hits live.

    However, Pistol is still the best PvM DD we can manage so far as I know, Esssch's protestations aside. Pistol MPs will be better after the patch than it was before just off from DtP and the extra 200 NR. It's just less versatile and more squishy than 1hb will be.

  14. #14
    I think 1hb wins as well. I already ip resetted my mp and am now patiently waiting for 18.7 patch to come out so I can ip something. I wish Blood bat had it's enfo only tag removed so we could have some fun with SA

    Will be really interesting trying out different setups (full dmg efficiency setup with dual Esa's) etc etc. Feels like there will be a lot more viable setups with this patch. Anyone know what weapons that remain 2hb? Perhaps the red staff (that i never remember the name of).
    Thapetowner
    Hardcore
    Ilovetokill
    Critterz
    Awaaa

  15. #15
    I think in 18.7 we gained a lot of versatility overall. From minor observations I noticed:
    • Creation weapons/1HB - With Esa and Zset being possible to dual and Zset being now 1hb it adds a lot of diferent setups. Esa+Esa, Zset+Zset, Asp+Asp, Esa+Zset, Esa+Asp... etc etc etc;
    • Bow - With new SS, Sacrificial Bond and +200NR on Odins we turned into real killing machines. Personal opinion: a real balanced between offence and defense - we are still sorta glass cannon but now have a "oh crap" emergengy button to deal with all the MR around the roof;
    • Pistols - Still the best in PvM DDwise. With DtP and +200NR it has now a little more defense. Probably still subpar in PvP (and since FC stated years ago they will not suport pistols on MPs it will probably stay so);
    • Creation Weapons/2HB - And here is where the nerf bat hit. Since Zset is no longer 2HB and most 2HB are not that good damage in endgame. Sad Panda;
    • Everything else - Same as pistols
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    However, Pistol is still the best PvM DD we can manage so far as I know, Esssch's protestations aside.
    There aren't any active ones around as far as I know, but I think an MA MP would OD a pistol MP.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Not enough skill to use higher than base Lust without several pieces of Supple-based armor. Base Lust is only mediocre damage at best. Very very difficult to get the skills to equip Lust or Peh'wer and Troa'ler for PvP, even with CSS set. Especially since we'll need the nano skills from CS and eye symb for Scourge pet, if we ever get it.

    And this is coming from one of the very few pistol MPs. 1hb or bow will be the way to go post-18.7.
    Except you can pretty easily equip troa'ler without any alien armor at all. And it only gets easier if you have an org that can lend you a couple pieces or has any tl4-tl5 field for a small contract/tower.

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=197487

    Peh is obviously hard still, but it's the same deal for crats. It's a pretty minor damage increase anyways, and probably not worth the effort unless you're min-maxing your setup.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Notcrattey View Post
    Except you can pretty easily equip troa'ler without any alien armor at all. And it only gets easier if you have an org that can lend you a couple pieces or has any tl4-tl5 field for a small contract/tower.

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=197487

    Peh is obviously hard still, but it's the same deal for crats. It's a pretty minor damage increase anyways, and probably not worth the effort unless you're min-maxing your setup.
    This setup is, of course, completely ignoring things like IP expenditure (weapon skill IP cost and IP being more important elsewhere), OE, defenses, which all add up to make it non-viable. It's all possible to equip (although Troa+Peh might be close to impossible for MP due to burst+multi ranged - I don't have the IP, IPR, creds, or energy to bother checking), but it's not worth the effort/creds when the same amount of effort/creds have much better returns with just about any other weapon path.

    Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's viable.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    This setup is, of course, completely ignoring things like IP expenditure (weapon skill IP cost and IP being more important elsewhere), OE, defenses, which all add up to make it non-viable.
    IP is a little harder than bow obviously, but it's most certainly doable; OE isn't even close to an issue, and defense-wise it's actually better than bow because in a full endgame setup you can actually hit 11 second AS without a scope.


    It's all possible to equip (although Troa+Peh might be close to impossible for MP due to burst+multi ranged - I don't have the IP, IPR, creds, or energy to bother checking)
    Multiple people have done the troa+peh setup on MP, it's not even a question.

    but it's not worth the effort/creds when the same amount of effort/creds have much better returns with just about any other weapon path.
    What's honestly your basis for believing in this? You even admitted you had no clue whether or not troal+peh was even possible, let alone its viability in action. Fact of the matter is Pistol has higher AR than bow, higher defense than bow (when considering 11 second AS the goal), better perks than bow and looks better than bow. The only thing you give up is a more consistent AS with Tigress.
    Last edited by Notcrattey; Aug 20th, 2014 at 05:30:17.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  20. #20
    IP is tons harder than bow, and OE definitely is an issue if you don't have supple-based armor.

    Citation needed for "Multiple people" doing troa+peh setup on MP. Of the very few MPs, I'm one of the very few pistol MPs. I've never seen anyone do both troa and peh on MP, just one or the other, and never without sacrificing symb spots. Go ahead and make an MP on Test and look at the skills we're able to reach. I'm sitting at around 1030ish Burst with my setup and it fully maxed.

    I know this is tough to believe from a 171's perspective, but IP really does get tighter later on, especially for pistol setups. I was bow way back, 2hb way back, pistol when AI came out, bow again with LE, 1hb/2hb with LoX, and now I'm back to pistol. My basis is from experience, what's yours from? Are you trying to compare any other profession's performance with troa/peh to our's? MPs have the lowest AR template post-1k of any profession. For every 1 point of AR above 1k, MPs will gain the least benefit. There's not a lot of info about this, so it's understandable that you wouldn't know about it. People were very upset over how good Tigress was when it came out, but it had to be that good for it to be comparable to other prof's offerings. Thus, since no other setup requires some of the most expensive armor in the game, every other weapon path will be better returns on investment.

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