Will this effect non MA classes?

[Greybear]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=58366

Will this effect non MA classes?
I mean other than just the damage being different or will the Crit be so friggin low that only the MAs Crit progs will effect it?

Id hate to see my character that got screwed over by the nerf and then removal of the 3927 pistols to get screwed over again.

[locomdenom]

"A flat, NON BUFFABLE, chance of crit."

It'll affect anyone using MA Specials, and possibly (hopefully, Cz?) Fixer Clusters/Bow Specials/etc.

[Greybear]

Hmm, seems like I have a better chance of doing higher damage right now, then I will with the CRIT after change.

[locomdenom]

Grey: how often does your current attack hit for minimum damage?

Of the stack of 1000 fixer clusters, with minimum damage of 95, that I just finished off, probably 70% hit for minimum damage.

If the normal damage is higher than min, even if I don't crit I'll be doing better damage.

[_______________Vydas]

I can't speak for Grey's character(s), but I can speak for my own. To some extent, it depends on the Attack. I use just two - Attack of the Snake and Blessed with Thunder. I'd say the AoS hits for min damage about 50 percent of the time. Blessed with Thunder, it's more like 99 percent of the time.

[Greybear]

Well the Blessed with Thunder was a bad choice for me.


This is no LIE no exageration and no myth.

Im a lvl 109 DOC. I have maxed my MA skill. I have used MA clusters in Implants. My MA skill is 575 unbuffed. Then I use the MA expertise, and if my 1 teaming partner is on on the weekend I get the MA masteries bringing me to a total of 647.

My Implants are QL125-126

I have absolutely not seen BwT hit for anything but Min Damage since Ive been using it some 60 lvls against anything that would give me EXP.

I can run thru the forest or Galway and sometimes get a few points above min.



AoS ( Attack of Snake )

This was along time ago, even on my other Doc. but seemed to produce lower results.


BoP ( Bird of Prey )

My other Doc is using this now and more than 70% of the time he is well above the 50% line. atleast 40% of those times he is above the 50% mark he hits for near full damage.




So, for some this would be a good thing for others it might reduce the damage. Thats why I was asking about the MA or EVERYONE part, but seems everytime they alter the DAMAGE output of a weapon, they make it worse. And even better, this time they have the player base helping to lower the damage, what a fallback for later.





1 last point. This thread used to be called, 'CZ'. Thats all, as of today CZ changed the name to 'Will this effect non MA classes?'

Where did he post anything on this thread? He didnt, so I take it it will effect us non MAs

--------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you have a moment of time, check out the DAMAGES of the BoP and BwT on TEST. They are looking at altering the damages as is now, but if the poll goes thru youll see a different alteration and much lower damages. My Opinion.

Live right now:
BoP:
Ql64.....18-178DMG....19NP..MA94..D72
Ql82.....22-235DMG....23NP..MA114.D89

BwT:
Ql96.....228-263DMG...109NP.P363..B342


Possible change as it goes now:
BoP:
Ql62.....17-691DMG....18NP..MA283.D161
Ql85.....23-993DMG....24NP..MA394.D171

BwT:
Ql96.....228-376DMG...109NP.P363..B342

This isnt not the Proposed changes in the Official Poll, and looks to be a good change.

[Greybear]

Welp now it changed on Test.


OnLive..
BoP:
QL53.....15-144DMG....15NP....MA81...D62
QL82.....22-234DMG....23NP....MA114..D89

BwT:
QL60.....151-178DMG...84NP....P194..B201



TestNow..
BoP:
QL53.....121DMG.......16NP....MA239..D107
QL85.....203DMG.......24NP....MA394..D171

BwT:
QL60.....157DMG.......84NP...P194....B201


As it is now I see some serious questions about the BoP, and I havent even checked all the ATTACKS. Look at the HUGE increase in the Skill to be able to use.

CZ?!?!

Raising the Skills needed to use by 2x and 3x as much?

We want to know how you want Martial Arts special attacks work in the future. We have three options for you, after having checked what can be done with no big code changes:

1. Leave it as it is today, where most attacks have varying damage. The downside of this is that armor will, at high levels, make you often deal minimum damage only. The upside is the lack of predictability (at lower levels, at least).

E.g.: Bird of Prey, QL 200, have a damage range of 50-600.

2. Make all attacks do a set amount of damage, equal to the average of minimum and maximum damage the attacks have today. The upside is a nice damage boost. The downside is the lack of uncertainty (which usually gives a thrill).

E.g.: Bird of Prey, QL 200, will get a damage of 325.

3. Make all attacks do a set damage, slightly less than the damage in option #2 above, but a flat (non-buffable) chance of a critical. The critical damage will be scaled so that the average damage will be the same as in option #2.

E.g.: Bird of Prey, QL 200, will get a damage of 275, a crit chance of 20%, and a crit damage of 250 (for a total of 525).

Let us know what you want, and we'll use that. If you choose option #3, I'll get back with a new poll on what critical chance we should put on it (and scale the critical damage accordingly).

Maybe I missed it, where was the RAISE THE SKILLS needed to USE the ATTACK 2 and 3 times as high?

The BwT looks good to me since I said before, I only did the minimum damage with this one.

[Cz]

Hey, relax. Breathe. How about not posting on several forums, and just e-mail me next time, ok?

I have heard nothing of an increase in skill reqs on MA special attacks, and I did read through almost every single change to 14.6 when writing up part of the patch notes. I'll check with QA and the designers.

[Cz]

Checked up on it, and yes, indeed, there are more changes than what's proposed in my thread. These were planned, and the only thing the designers wanted from my threads was an indication of whether a damage range or a flat damage would be best.

My examples are based on having no other changes, so they're a bit wrong. I apologize for that. However, the change doesn't look bad to me. The new damage on thew BoP is way higher than an average of the old one, which should justify the higher reqs just fine, imo. Also, BoP now has a chance to stun.

[Greybear]

Thank you for the fast reply and confirmation.


Requires alot more skill, not a little more. Were talking 2 times the first skill and 3 times the second. Thats alot more. The Change in DAMAGE doesnt justify that higher of a jump, tho some would be expected e****ially for the STUN effect.

IF you look at the two posts, one shows a BoP with alot higher DAMAGE, that was on TEST before your poll ended. That would JUSTIFY the higher reqs, that was ALOT more damage.

But, yes the stun effect is cool. So what are the chances of it just flat out being RESITSED?


Lets see how fast Just this 1 little post gets a reply.

[Cz]

The version that was on test earlier was probably given wrong data, and is not really a part of the equation. What you need to look at is the change from the current live to the current test version.

Whether the req change is justified there is something we will see when all MAs get to test this out on the live dimensions. I'll be using it.

The resist chance is a hidden number, and a part of the game mechanics I will not give out, at least not right now. There will probably be somebody figuring it out quickly anyway.

[Greybear]

Thank you

[Darkbane]

If your not an MA, chances are AoS will be a better bet than BoP as things currently stand on test. AoS has only MA requirement, BoP has MA and Dimach. AoS recharges slightly faster than brawl, BoP about twice as slow as brawl. AoS does less damage for sure, but the damage-over-time is probably only slightly less, and for lower IP expenditure. For an MA with cheaper dimach, BoP may still be better.

The version of BoP in 14.6.0.1 had higher reqs and higher damage range. BoP (and other attacks) in 14.6.0.2 seems to have about the same reqs as before, and a fixed damage. As I haven't critted with one yet, I can't say what that does to the damage.

Is the fixed crit chance on these still 3%? I'd say that it should be a bit higher than that, probably about 5% if it is unbuffable.

Still, more testing is needed.

And if the bonus crit damage could be put in the attacks description, that would be nice to know...

[Cz]

I actually think the current attacks don't have a crit chance. That required new code, which is not ready, but we hope to have it in 14.8.

Note that when the crit comes in, the average damage over time will not change. The normal damage will be slightly lower, and the critical will be adjusted to make up for that. So no increase in average damage when the crit gets in, just a little more game of chance.

And the crit chance on those attacks will not be affected by crit chance buffs, just to have said that one more time.

[Darkbane]

Ah! Thanks for clearing that up. Don't need to bother keeping my eye open for them then

But as I said, that unbuffable crit chance should be higher than the normal buffable crit chance, though not by much, 5-6% is probably plenty. Though if the damage figures are adjusted to maintain the same average damage-over-time, you could tweak it any old way.

However, too high a chance, and the normal damage will be too low, too low a chance and it won't happen often enough for people to really notice and they'll complain of a nerf. Ok, so it won't be a nerf, but people will perceive it that way if they don't see the crits happening reasonably regularly.

[locomdenom]

I think that one thing you might consider is to have the crit chance scale across QL. Make sure the avg. DoT is still what you want, but people have different expectations at different levels.

When I was a noobi, I wasn't seeing that many crits, so that 3-5% crit chance would be fine.

At 140, I almost never have less than a 7% crit chance, and almost always am walking around with an 11% (3+1+7) chance, because I likes my crits.

So, perhaps scaling across the QLs, going from QL1 = 3% chance to QL200 = 11% chance? Thus, every 25 QLs it'd raise by 1% crit chance, so:

QL60 BwT would have a 5% crit chance.
QL100 BwT would have 7% crit chance.
QL150 BwT would have 9% crit chance.

So forth.

And, are these changes going to be applied to fixer cluster bullets as well, because we suffer from the mindamage problem as much as MAs.

[Jayde]

Originally posted by Cz
The version that was on test earlier was probably given wrong data, and is not really a part of the equation. What you need to look at is the change from the current live to the current test version.

Whether the req change is justified there is something we will see when all MAs get to test this out on the live dimensions. I'll be using it.

The resist chance is a hidden number, and a part of the game mechanics I will not give out, at least not right now. There will probably be somebody figuring it out quickly anyway.

It seems the chance of the stun landing is 10% at QL 10 and 30% at QL 200.

Don't know if that was what he was referring to...

The "Stunned by Bird of Prey" nano that the special calls has a 0% NanoResist on it, so it is unlikely that it is resistable if you get the lucky 10%-30% CastStunNano call.

-Jayde

[Darkbane]

I suspect he's talking about the chance to actually resist the attack itself...

[Greybear]

NO, was actually meaning the Stun part. Tho the resist to the attack itself is also another thought. But Ive always wondered what skill it is that resists the MA attack, since it really doesnt say. (Ma Attacks can be RESISTED, PARRIED, and MISS what other weapon can be done this way?)



Something that kinda bugs me is still the high rise in the skills to use area, but now CZ has opened another can.

You mean that when they, not effective now, intro then chance of crit that they are going to lower the Damage of the Attack and offset it with the Damage of the crit to balance out?

Cz, Im prolley the only one to ask this, Can you plz hold the MA attack Changes until it can all be done at once? Its called completeness.

This way the attack doesnt go as it is now, then change, then change again. Make it just one change when its all ready.

And one more thuought whilest we are on MA attacks. I like the cryptic description, though a little more explaination would be nice. And removing of the double info of the attack line in Description comes to mind.

[________________Noah]

if you ask them to hold off on improvements until they can get all done at the same time, you are prob looking at adding 2-3 months to the delay of improvement of the attacks. imo its better that they put in whatever they can as soon as they can because the patches are very far between.