Discussion of Suggestion Thread

[Le-Quack]

i think tomium came upp with a great idea here, i realy liked his inition of doing this. he gained my respect

[Traderjill]

I think the idea, in theory, is good but if you aren't giving any weight to the suggestions I guess I don't understand the point. I would think it should matter to the Devs if 50 people posted about something. I"m not saying that just because 1 person posted an issue means that it is less important than the issue 50 people post about but how can they stay in touch with us if they really don't know what we, as a whole, collectively agree is a problem? If I'm working for a company and 1 person complains about the color of a widget, ok.. np. But if I start getting calls day after day about the same problem then I'm definitely going to want to look into what is causing the complaints and respond to the customers.

In game terms, it is possible that since we have no clue as to what they're trying to accomplish with some of these changes that maybe we simply are complaining about a non-issue. If that is the case, then gathering the data would allow them to provide an appropriate response. As an example: "So we see that a lot of you have issues with the duration of your debuffs. We hear you and what we're trying to accomplish with this change is...."

I also feel that feedback shouldn't only be negative. Honestly you need to start a thread where we can list, in the same format, the things we really like about 18.7. Again, that would allow the Devs to see what things made the game more fun or enjoyable for us and hopefully they can balance out providing more of those things and less of things that piss people off.

[Doctrony]

I'm agreeing with Jill on this one. Positive feedback about what we feel is being done right with 18.7 (and by extension the rest of the game) has a large potential value. As I have mentioned previously, it is too easy to become caught up in the negative side of change, without seeing the whole picture.

+1 to the idea of a positive feedback thread; even if not official.

My 2c.
-Trony-

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I'm agreeing with Jill on this one. Positive feedback about what we feel is being done right with 18.7 (and by extension the rest of the game) has a large potential value. As I have mentioned previously, it is too easy to become caught up in the negative side of change, without seeing the whole picture.

+1 to the idea of a positive feedback thread; even if not official.

My 2c.
-Trony-

positive and negative feedback both have value if voiced in a constructive manner, and objectifies the change in a critical light.

[Traderjill]

+1 to the idea of a positive feedback thread; even if not official.

My 2c.
-Trony-

The only reason I didn't start one is I think having the community manager set the guidelines keeps it clean.. otherwise it'll turn into a bunch of back and forth like in all of the other threads.

[Baby]

Baby- so you're saying Tomium is not allowed to attempt to gather a sorted or viable list for which contains legit idea's for the dev's and such to look at? They have to spend hours reading through half written ideas and cannot be helped along with a pre-set list? How can you make an assumption that the dev's don't look at the forums if they are getting a list from Tomium?

When we make suggestions, we as players do not know if what we are suggesting is even possible to do in game, or maybe it is but could or will impact a different part of our gameplay...

I'm sure and would like to hope that if there were any small issues or feedback that have little to no impact will be getting a tweak or change. However, most of the changes we give feedback on, just like most companies need to go through an approval and a sign off to implement. Can't expect the dev's to just select a particular piece of feedback from the forum and just start working on it by himself..

How could you possibly read that in my post? I never used the words "not allowed" or anything. Quite the contrary: I said it's totally fine that Tomium makes a list for the devs to hand them over. What I do not think is totally fine: Instead of taking the suggestions from the 18.7 forum that have been there already, he forces us to repeat everything and that in a very short way. Which is ridiculous, considering how complex AO is, and how much complexity may be behind a suggestion.

Because you just said how I could: They're getting a list from Tomium. If you were a dev, and you asked someone to go to the forums, gather a list and hand it over, why would you do that when you read the forums yourself and could have just picked pen and paper?
But maybe, yes, it's not the devs, but rather (and this is an actual assumption here) Tomium, who simply refuses to read our threads.

One way or another, it stays inacceptable.

[Misat0]

+1 for a positive feedback thread in the same manner as the suggestion thread.

As for more complex suggestions: I don't know if it is OK for Tomium if we add a link at a brief suggestion to a more detailed posts about that issue. That way the suggestion thread would stay short, but if more details are needed to understand, the details would be at hand without searching the forum for them manually.

[Tomium]

+1 for a positive feedback thread in the same manner as the suggestion thread.

As for more complex suggestions: I don't know if it is OK for Tomium if we add a link at a brief suggestion to a more detailed posts about that issue. That way the suggestion thread would stay short, but if more details are needed to understand, the details would be at hand without searching the forum for them manually.

Links are great. I love links. The only problem is when you do a URL redirect like this, because when I transcribe it all, I strip the formatting of it.

[Traderjill]

I'm confused by the Organization category listed on the TestLive Suggestion thread. Did something change about organizations in 18.7? I didn't notice anything mentioned in the patch notes. I have plenty of suggestions relating to organizations but I thought the point of that thread was to cover things that had been changed.. is it to just suggest changes in general?

[Emma]

No. Please don't.

See, here's the thing-
These suggestions are not weighted. This means that everyone's voice is heard equally. Whether you want to "+1" it or not, this is not the time for that. For now, I ask that if you see something you agree with, know that it has been submitted on your behalf by someone else. It's that simple.

I think you/FC/Dev's are making a huge mistake here.

We all should be able to submit all our suggestions for fixing 18.7 as well as all our 'this is good, don't change it' positive input.

When you do your transcribing of the suggestions you should add a field to include who suggested it as well as anyone else who also suggested it. In effect, One vote per Forum ID.

You have asked for categories and professions and short concise suggestions, so it should be possible for you to notice duplicate/similar suggestions and just add another Forum ID to suggestions already on your list.

I assume that while you are transcribing you are already checking for duplication ...

I think it is wrong to give a small issue the same weight as a very troubling issue.

As a side note, I very much doubt that anyone is going to read thru the full thread of suggestions to make certain what they have seen isn't already on the list.

If you really insist on going ahead with your "equal weight" to all suggestions then your transcribed list needs to be an up-to-date sticky at the top of the thread.

Emma

[Anarrina]

The parameters of the suggestion thread have been set, and more argument about it isn't going to change what Tomium is doing with the thread. Please keep on topic, which is discussing the suggestions, not the parameters of the thread itself. Thank you.

[Traderjill]

The parameters of the suggestion thread have been set, and more argument about it isn't going to change what Tomium is doing with the thread. Please keep on topic, which is discussing the suggestions, not the parameters of the thread itself. Thank you.

Now I'm really confused. Reading Tomium's original post and then his first response to me.. I thought the purpose of this thread was exactly to discuss the parameters (and any issues at all) of the Suggestions Thread.

[LyraJ]

Now I'm really confused. Reading Tomium's original post and then his first response to me.. I thought the purpose of this thread was exactly to discuss the parameters (and any issues at all) of the Suggestions Thread.

Maybe there's supposed to be another thread to discuss the "discussion of suggestion thread"? That sounds snarky, and I suppose it is on some level, but I'm also confused for the same reason.

Additionally, I'm not clear on the purpose of the suggestion thread. I thought it was supposed to be related to the 18.7 changes, but quite a bit of what I've read is unrelated and just people asking for stuff. So is suggestions for the proposed 18.7 changes, or is it suggestions for whatever we want to see included in 18.7?

[alfora]

The parameters of the suggestion thread have been set, and more argument about it isn't going to change what Tomium is doing with the thread. Please keep on topic, which is discussing the suggestions, not the parameters of the thread itself. Thank you.

That got me confused as well.

* Suggestions go into the "Suggestion Thread"

* Discussions ABOUT the parameters of the "Suggestion Thread" go here?

* Discussions ABOUT suggestions IN the "Suggestion Thread" go where?

[Tomium]

I think you all are overthinking this.

THIS thread, right here, is for discussing issues you are bringing up in the suggestions thread, and to provide feedback as to what you think about those things.

The Format of the Suggestion thread has been carefully considered. This is not the end-all-be-all of suggestion threads- it has a reason for the way it is being done, that as usual- I can't get into right now. I understand and don't disagree that popularity of a suggestion is a factor. However, RIGHT NOW, it isn't. We want everything thrown at the wall, so to speak.

Nobody has stopped or even said that you can't make well thought out threads about suggestions. Please do- in your own thread. The "official suggestion thread" is kept the way it is because of what I am doing with it. If you choose to contribute, that is fantastic- if you don't, I totally understand.

The Orgs. title was there in case there was a change in orgs, or needed to be- in the newest patch, if that makes sense?


I appreciate everyone's patience as usual.

[LyraJ]

I think you all are overthinking this.

THIS thread, right here, is for discussing issues you are bringing up in the suggestions thread, and to provide feedback as to what you think about those things.

The Format of the Suggestion thread has been carefully considered. This is not the end-all-be-all of suggestion threads- it has a reason for the way it is being done, that as usual- I can't get into right now. I understand and don't disagree that popularity of a suggestion is a factor. However, RIGHT NOW, it isn't. We want everything thrown at the wall, so to speak.

Nobody has stopped or even said that you can't make well thought out threads about suggestions. Please do- in your own thread. The "official suggestion thread" is kept the way it is because of what I am doing with it. If you choose to contribute, that is fantastic- if you don't, I totally understand.

The Orgs. title was there in case there was a change in orgs, or needed to be- in the newest patch, if that makes sense?


I appreciate everyone's patience as usual.

Fair enough, but is the suggestions thread ONLY for the changes in 18.7? Or is it for all game suggestions? Because right now I see a lot of the latter, but I interpreted your original post as the former.

(And of course we over-think it. That's what happens when you only have people that care deeply left to comment on a game.)

[Tomium]

Fair enough, but is the suggestions thread ONLY for the changes in 18.7? Or is it for all game suggestions? Because right now I see a lot of the latter, but I interpreted your original post as the former.

(And of course we over-think it. That's what happens when you only have people that care deeply left to comment on a game.)

I admit to not being perfectly clear.

Let me try that now:

The suggestions are for the 18.7 patch ONLY.

I KNOW people are making all sorts of suggestions that have nothing to do with 18.7. For the moment, they remain because I don't have the resources to weed them all out. (Last count was over 300 suggestions)

So, think of it as an honor kind of thing. I am asking you to only post about 18.7. Whether you do or not, that's up to you. Ultimately, it will end up costing both me and the devs more time to sort it all out, but it WILL be sorted in the end.

I hope that I am being a bit more clear here- this really is a labor of love for me.

[orochi3]

would it help the devs if we used that "format" for suggesting is used also in the rest of the forum? Outside of these threads? As i can imagen it would help the devs filter whats relevant

[Tomium]

would it help the devs if we used that "format" for suggesting is used also in the rest of the forum? Outside of these threads? As i can imagen it would help the devs filter whats relevant

For now, we are just doing this for 18.7.

[Traderjill]

Tomium- Any chance you guys can put your heads together and come up with some sort of incentive for people to test PvM endgame raids? It is great to get feedback but I don't think I've really seen anyone post much about how the changes impacted their team experience.. mainly because not many (if any) have done anything.

I would love to provide said feedback but can't unless I can get teams on TestLive.