Doctors

[Dumonde]

i never said it was weak but it isnt that overpowered and unique like you tried to show. docs got 1 debuff, good heals and we want to keep our average dmg. whats overpowered with that?
we dont want evades,absorb, stuns, huge dmg perks, nano leech buffs, huge ar or roots/snares like the other profs have. your " 1 prof for all" statement is abit far fetched

Almost the I have written already and yes, it points out our current problem pretty well.

If we Docs would be an almost unbeatable op-class, then I could understand this whole thing. But in fact, we arent. The only reasons why there are some (a handful) Docs out there with a pretty good duel / kill statistic, it is only due to a high a ammount of skill and experience. And Timing. Performing that well (beeing able to kill enforcer, trader and fixer after long long long fights) is not a result of beeing OP from reaching 220, it is a result of very hard work. Much more harder then the others in spamming a few buttons and blasting ur arse with stunlocks, capped specials and debuffs into eternity btw.

Taking average viability from an average dmg inflicting profession is just like cropping 2 finger from a man with 3 finger.

[pontusen]

The doctor's description:

Medical Lab (Doctor)
Physical manipulation, to heal or to harm.

That last word would indicate that doctors are actually allowed to do damage, contrary to pafpuffap's propaganda.

[solcv2]

OK, so if docs are allowed to do PVP damage, on a similair scale to someone as a DPS class - lets give the DPS classes some healing scalable to the doctors.

/Mark

[Teeko]

No one is asking for that. Docs lost most of their kill power with the capped cast time on malpractice. They lost their best defense with the capped cast time AND 20% duration on ubt(compared to current ubt). Other professions toolsets were changed or reworked, but doctors were flat out nerfed. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. We weren't given anything to balance this out, no buff in another area or another way to debuff our opponent or do more damage. We don't have the damage of a dps class now, get real. We're not asking for more damage, just a similar amount to what we currently have.

[Raggy]

Just gunna drop in and say that PvP in AO has and always will be based around teams, not 1v1 situations. While you think not being able to damage in a 1v1 situation isn't fair, you're ignoring that fact you are hands down the best profession to have in a team fight.

[Teeko]

Just gunna drop in and say that PvP in AO has and always will be based around teams, not 1v1 situations. While you think not being able to damage in a 1v1 situation isn't fair, you're ignoring that fact you are hands down the best profession to have in a team fight.

For the first 2 seconds...then start the chain stuns and massive amounts of damage that is impossible to survive.

[Raggy]

For the first 2 seconds...then start the chain stuns and massive amounts of damage that is impossible to survive.

If that is really the case then why is losing a bit of damage more important than surviving the stun alpha and helping your team?

[Cyberleet]

If that is really the case then why is losing a bit of damage more important than surviving the stun alpha and helping your team?

cause collectivism is nazism

/thread

[Teeko]

Because this is a thread mainly focused on doctor's loss of damage in a pvp situation. We didn't lose survivability, we didn't gain any either. People are quite irked with our survivabilty as it is. We aren't immortal by any means, but we are really tough to kill. The main problem I(we?) have at this point is our complete loss of damage in pvp. Hell I think our pvm damage may have went up(yay, i think?) with the malpractice change. If they would have just toned down the malpractice change, making it only a nuke instead of a nuke+dot+init debuff, I would have been happy, as long as it was then usable on mobs and scaled like it currently does on live. Oh, and that capped casting time on ubt and malp(and a 4s lockout time on the nuke line, seriously?) is complete and utter bull**** at this point. We are getting damage in pvp nerfed, if anything we need our survivability nerfed.

[Teeko]

If that is really the case then why is losing a bit of damage more important than surviving the stun alpha and helping your team?

Oh, and while I'm here...making us able to survive an onslaught of 3+ people along with atleast one of them usually throwing a couple stuns on us, is ridiculous and no doc expects that.

[Pafpuf]

For the first 2 seconds...then start the chain stuns and massive amounts of damage that is impossible to survive.

Fact is most doctors in this game die fast in mass pvp because their positioning and movement are absolutely horrible, not because their survivability is bad. Playing a support role in pvp is all about avoiding damage, not trying to survive it.

[Teeko]

Let me know when I(doctors) get the ability to move around while chain stunned from shades/mas/crats/mps all spamming stuns so everyone can alpha the hell out of us. And nobody mentioned mass pvp, only team oriented pvp. two different things. Sure, in a tower fight I can stay near the back and maybe survive a few seconds longer until someone realizes im there, but in a team situation the entire other team is just going to kill the doc first and ignore everyone else.

[Esqi]

Make a form, like Zazen/Shadowform.

Significantly reduce healing output and increase damage by X%, Significantly reduce damage and increase healing etc by X%.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Let me know when I(doctors) get the ability to move around while chain stunned from shades/mas/crats/mps all spamming stuns so everyone can alpha the hell out of us. And nobody mentioned mass pvp, only team oriented pvp. two different things. Sure, in a tower fight I can stay near the back and maybe survive a few seconds longer until someone realizes im there, but in a team situation the entire other team is just going to kill the doc first and ignore everyone else.

team with an engi+soldier.

Start fight with 7 blockers, soldier AMS and use guardian.

if three people can take down a doc with that kind of defence before an engi and sold and doc is spamming damage at one of the opponents, I'll admit my tactics suck.

[Teeko]

The ideal team isn't always possible. And this isn't a question of survivability. It's a question of kill power in single PvP. We don't need a form or stance, just fix ubt and malpractice.

[Raggy]

And like I said, PvP in AO is not balanced around 1v1 encounters. You lost damage to retain your extreme teamfight presence. You cannot have the best of both worlds.

[Teeko]

And as I said, our team presence is only useful in extremely ideal team situations. And I didn't ask for the best of both worlds. I have said(in this thread, no less) to reduce our healing power and allow us to retain our damage. Frankly, healing in this game is just too damn easy. It's been said over and over, and it should be addressed. But on the flip side, don't nerf docs into oblivion either. I want a happy medium which is not what they accomplished with the current changes. They made our already "meh" damage worse in pvp, and didn't reduce our healing power at 220(where its an issue) a single bit.

[Hassler]

And like I said, PvP in AO is not balanced around 1v1 encounters. You lost damage to retain your extreme teamfight presence. You cannot have the best of both worlds.

about which extreme teamfight presence are you talking? doc is always the first target and so gets killed first.in the 3v3 tournament in arena which happened 1-2 weeks ago, docs were mostly dead after 15s when motr went out and he couldnt contribute anything for the team because he was kiting like hell to even survive that 15s. take a 6v6 team... even with a engi in the doc team he will be instant alphaed from specials alone. now throw a fear in which doesnt get interuped most of the time and its game over for the doc after a few seconds.

[Pafpuf]

That makes at much sense as taking away defense from "killer professions" would... Which is not a lot... of sense that is.

First off that's a ridiculous comparison. Granted certain professions have overpowered defensive capabilities in certain situations, none have such defenses that would completely nullify the need for doctors in this game. Secondly nobody invites doctors in their team for their dps.

Doctors are meant to both heal AND harm... always have been. That other games are very narrow minded and stereotypical in their profession roles, does not mean that AO should be that way as well... Only serves to make it all more boring.

Ridiculous statement again. Healer classes in every rpg and mmorpg I have played can harm. The only thing they can't do is significant damage.

[Psikie]

Omg I just had to slap myself because I kinda/partially agree with both RAGGY and PAFPUF (the 2 people I probably argue the most with on forums)

I do not think docs should have "alpha" killing power.

I have always thought Docs should be able to pvp by outlasting opponents and slowly but surely debilitating them like a plague or virus. Malp was a 1/2 brain Band-Aid fix for pvp imo. Honestly if I had it my way Docs would actually have a 4th and possibly 5th DoT instead of Malp nuke. A-B-C-D-E line DoTs, that while D-E DoTs might have longer cast times, slower ticks, and longer durations, there really isn't any prof that could survive that type of damage over time EXCEPT another Doc and maybe Advy.

Kind of a longer build up but the end result would actually be more deadly imo.