Doctors

[Teeko]

you guys will learn how to be a support prof now, like it was intended (not wtfpwn everyone and everything)
hf

Lol will a doctor stand up and say how you were "wtfpwning" everything and everyone? It may just be me, but I need some kill power because if I DO manage to stay alive indefinitely, it is because of my ability to play a doctor, my timing, and some impeccable luck that something didn't cap.

Let's be honest guys, docs weren't unkillable. You had to get creative, but we lose duels. The problem is we can't win duels now. And if were meant to be only a healing profession, take soldier's healing ability away, even just heal delta, its too much. They are meant to be pewpew profession. It all boils down to: I don't have as much kill power as before even if i'm somehow able to find a way to survive these ridiculous alphas. The timing is impossibly short, we can't fit our toolset in 30s guys.

[Thor84]

Seems to me that as a doctor there should be a trade off for better damage. Having more of an offensive kill power but trading being able to heal really well.

To some extent being able to destroy peoples inits is what makes a doc win.

In current live, if a doc lands everything, how far negative do peoples inits go?

FC does probably need to rethink the changes they made, but some of it is probably needed

[Novaelis]

for pure support docs, i'd love to see more power on heals, high %efficiency heals, better/new hots, while sacrificing weapons (what about a nanodeck like thing for doctors).

for pvpers/pvmers, a inits/evade(?)/dd setup and sacrifice high heals and %efficiency sounds to be a correct choice. as high survivability vs chances to kill sounds fair.

btw support profs should really stick to support, while artillery and infantry should be the real damage dealers.
current balance makes everyone (almost) able to kill everyone.
pvp is not only 1vs1, it's also teamplay and balanced teams uses support and offensive professions.

[Pafpuf]

Doctors are meant to both heal AND harm... always have been.

Doctors do harm. UBT is one of the most powerful debuffs in the game, if not the most powerful. Wait lemme guess, you think the only way of harming someone is by doing damage ?

[Mekh]

Doctors do harm. UBT is one of the most powerful debuffs in the game, if not the most powerful. Wait lemme guess, you think the only way of harming someone is by doing damage ?

Nope... Doctors viability in PvP came from the combination of their crippling as well as their damage and defensive capabilities...

As any other profession in AO they rely on a multitude of tools to be viable and that's the way I like it to be.

[Pafpuf]

Doctor's viability in PvP came from massive burst healing. Their damage has always been negligible with the exception of afk/stupid players.

In all my years pvping I have never ever even come close to dying to a doc, on the other hand ubt would annoy me to hell (especially on NT, yay for disabling a profession entirely for 2.5 minutes with the push of a button) and their healing has denied me a lot of kills. Where's all this damage you talk about that's so crucial to a doctor's viability ?

[Leetlover]

My ideas for CH was:

Prototype CH = 1000 points in heal, 8s recharge, 20s cooldown.
CH = 10k in heal, 8s recharge, 20s cooldown.
ICH = 100k in heal, 8s recharge, 20s cooldown.

I also think it would be cool with self-auras that are mutually exclusive:

One good hp-buff (7-9k at top), one good nanoresistbuff and one that does initdebuff/dot.

Then it would maybe be more diversity in the setups.

I think some hostile nanolines should be locked to non-weapons in weaponslots. You know the cups for pure healerdocs? Stuff like that. The cyberdeck should only buff heal-efficiency/casterskills imo. All doc-setups should be able to cast good heals. Only ch-line should be locked to cups/cyberdecks if any.

For init debufs I think MA and crat should have it (given that the aura-idea is implemented) and that they should work progressively like malp. IE, keep casting it to sustain a good effect. Init debuffs are too op atm imo.

take it back to where it was before, and remove the dot and make it just a nuke.

bump 4 this, a progressive nuke without the dot/debuff-effects. DD'ing is something you can focus on when you not have to heal so much.

complaining how you can't kill with a profession called DOCTOR who's primary role is HEALING is pretty ridiculous.

Not in AO, in wow and other games maybe. Not here. It seems fair to me that a doc should have a fair chance at killing someone after surriving a opponents attacks/defence. Since casting require standing still the opponent can just run off anyway. Doubt being limited to a healing would be many peoples idea of fun. Imagine if all agents had to permasneak, only focus on subterfugeskills and be limited to ganksetup? We would have like one or two agents left on the server.

the argument that docs can't kill is all but selfishness really.

But thats not an relevant argument in teeko's disfavor. People should play the game as they see fit. The heal-ability of the profession won't disappear with the option to spam malp instead. With choices there will also be diferent setups.

I don't dot in pvm btw, but still. I remember Rackie, a 220 dd-doc that could only cast CR (218heal afaik) with mochams on. Healing worked great overall, but it wasn't very good. Thats AO to me.

[Pafpuf]

http://youtu.be/hFDcoX7s6rE?t=58s

Everyone wants some sort of fair rebalance but with their professions getting everything because "AO is different" and "we totally should".

Yup AO is different, it has a 500 people playerbase, can't say that for any other mmo out there.

[Leetlover]

http://youtu.be/hFDcoX7s6rE?t=58s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...CKEGCvLtI#t=44

Everyone wants some sort of fair rebalance but with their professions getting everything because "AO is different" and "we totally should"

Few docs ask for dof, limber, tms, stun and snareperks, roots etc. It's about viable damage at the expense of healing. It's not about being different, it's about complexity and options. Without it I think AO is just a horrible, old and fractured game with nothing to offer other than stuff that other games does 10 times better. Implanting (pretty unique ao-feature) and equip for example, how would docs do it if they only had one option? Guess HP-setup and heal-efficiency-setup would have to be mutually exclusive or something. In practice it would be very boring as docs aren't tanks either. Totally agree a doctor's primary role _in a team_ is healing, but the game has gotten very bad in itself. It's mostly in endgameraids you ever need a doc focused on healing. Ok thx, going back to streaming negative creep w nirvana on yt.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

@ leetlover you got some decent ideas.

I like the idea of init debuffs being spread out a bit, and to some extent they are.

MA's already got a very good basis for init debuffing with 3 perks, one MA attack that can do up to -3k-ish inits when stacked properly.

That's not to say you want all 3k at once, but if you spread them out a bit you can do some reasonable init debuffing for about 30s out of 1.5 minutes.

The problem is coordination.

I think a lot of the strain of adjustments could be lessened substantially if debuffs were actually visible (notably something like the solider dodge debuffs would really help), then players could see when the debuffs were running out and go to apply their own if they are up.

For me I think the best approach is to spread out the utility, while trying to maintain single player usability (obviously UBT being such a short duration is nearly crippling for a doc wanting to solo), so clearly there needs to be other methods to make it work.

My feeling is having the effect spread between perks and nanos is highly useful since perks tend to land on mobs, but less on players, while nanos tend to land on player but not on some mobs.

Mistreatment, for example, would be a perfect perk to attach a 30s init debuff on that scales with the number of perks in the line, capping out at -1000 inits at 10 perks.

[Le-Quack]

the knowledge about norm hit any doctor at tl 5 to they have to use CH and then alpha since they are then disabled to heal for 8,5 sec is a known and very used method, i kinda had to lol when i saw 40 sec cooldown, they have absolutly no chanse what so ever to tank someone for 40 sec with regular heals even if they would heal 2k pr heal.

thou i can see the solution if after they used ch they can go over to use regualr heals insta by removing the 8,5 sec cooldown on ch but give it a 40 sec cooldown to be used agein.
or well it be op if they can ch and cast regular heal right after but say they could cast regualr heals after a 3 sec cooldown isnted of 8,5
Cooldown and recharge is not the same, so keep that in mind.

should be rather easy:

Nano Crystal (Complete Healing)
NCU 1
Nanocost 1400
School Healing: Complete heal
Attack time 5.5s
Recharge time 8s

New:

Nano Crystal (Complete Healing)
NCU 1
Nanocost 1400
School Healing: Complete heal
Attack time 5.5s
Recharge time 3 <--------------------------------------------( change this recharge and i belive it solve the tl 5 issue ) 3 seconds is just a suggestion thrown out.


also doc heal eff will be higher yes? so regular heal will heal about 2k at tl5 ? ( if i am wrong here about tl 5 heal eff, then why not open upp to lower the requirement to cast the first and lowest SL heal to 150? )

No alpha tl 5 will recharge in 40 sec anyways so 40 sec cooldown should not be a issue then

For tl 7 agents on the other hand i see a big problem with this unless SL heals will be opend upp a little, i dont think acces to the top SL heals is something to suggest, but to give em some acces to one of the decent sl heals so they have a chanse to tank full auto alone atleast.
becose how it looks now a agent will die to a soldier useing only full auto evry 11 sec without any other specials or perks wich isnt fair

[Leetlover]

What bugs me most about docs is that all the sl-dots has to last so short. Why can't A and B at least be 1min and 30s?

MA's already got a very good basis for init debuffing with 3 perks, one MA attack that can do up to -3k-ish inits when stacked properly.

I was actually suggesting removing those perks and malaise/tapes and ubt (but doc will have a init-debuff aura instead, mostly for soloing), and simply replace it with one progressive nano (like malp) that can be used by crat and ma. This way they get a role in team, but they have to keep casting it at the expence of casting other stuff. MA has long recharge, or has that changed now?

(obviously UBT being such a short duration is nearly crippling for a doc wanting to solo), so clearly there needs to be other methods to make it work.

If the aura-system was implemented. Then you would have it work passively like a proc on a singletarget you are attacking at the expence of hp and nanoresist.

My feeling is having the effect spread between perks and nanos is highly useful since perks tend to land on mobs, but less on players, while nanos tend to land on player but not on some mobs

Thats a good point, but the problem is when it stacks and makes stuff easy. I think it is just ubt-line that mostly doesn't land, no?

Mistreatment, for example, would be a perfect perk to attach a 30s init debuff on that scales with the number of perks in the line, capping out at -1000 inits at 10 perks.

Yeah, remove the decrepitude line but add the values to this. Agent has a similar perk. 'The Shot'. Doc take init debuff, agent take heal-debuff.

also doc heal eff will be higher yes? so regular heal will heal about 2k at tl5 ?

It will be higher heal-efficiency at lower levels. So yes.

[Teeko]

What bugs me most about docs is that all the sl-dots has to last so short. Why can't A and B at least be 1min and 30s?

If they made all 3 endgame dots last 1m30s, I probably would stop complaining now. Hell even add a huge nanocost increase on them. Dots should be something you do if you can, but not a given. Right now I can pretty much keep everything in AO triple dotted, ubted, and keep healing.(given that the mob is ubtable). My main problem with the new UBT is the cast time. If your going to make it last 30s, get rid of the capped cast time, or atleast make it last 1m or something.

My main issue here guys is I don't have a chance to kill anything anymore. My healing power at 220 has not changed one bit, and thats what was OP to begin with. Sure, take the dot part off of malpractice, I never really noticed it anyways. But really the only way I have to kill anyone is dots and spamming malpractice. Spamming malpractice is not possible now, and i have to cast UBT 5 times in the amount of time it used to last. And UBT is now capped cast time. I'll spend my entire duel UBTing, healing, and dotting trying to prepare the kill with no time to ever attempt to actually kill lol.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

the cast time on UBT is ridiculous.

What seems to be SERIOUSLY lacking in this latest patch is an evaluation of risk vs reward.

If a nano is going to take you out of combat for 5 seconds, to buy 30 seconds of reduced hit frequency, it's a horrible investment of time. Period.

Nobody will use it and if they do it's just a bloody annoying time/DPS sink.

[Teeko]

I also agree with the idea of putting Init debuffs on mistreatment instead of making us rely on ubt. That could also work.

[Pafpuf]

The problem with funcom's policy is (I've said it literally a hundred times before) making nanos have both capped cast time/very long cast time that's far from being able to cap full def AND cooldown is a retarded mechanic. Most nanos don't even need cast time and cooldown, like 99% of the buffs in this game, it's just a time sink. If buffs were instant with no cooldown this game would be a much better place. Exception to this rule would ofc be buffs that heal or have absorption layers.

[Le-Quack]

let ubt be as it has, but that it can break in pvp but not in pvm.
let the break chanse be at like 10-15% for pvp.

[wyldebeast]

I'm on the fence on this one.
On the one hand I find the old values too high. Doing a hard dyna like LotV becomes too stupidly easy as soon as UBT and the -init proc(s) lands. You even have time to go get coffee between the stupidly slow hits the dragon will throw at you.
On the other hand I find this change so drastic that I'm starting to doubt the value of even casting UBT. It's one of the most resisted nanos in my doc's arsenal, and if it just fail once, one of my dots will run out, making me loose my much needed damage. On all but the toughest mobs, it's a better investment just to skip UBT and outheal whatever extra damage you get. LotV like mobs are still doable, but will take an enormous effort, due to dots running out, when UBT fails. That encourages teaming and is a fine change IMO.
TL;DR:
Old values of doc init debuffs and duration - Too powerful
New values - Not worth casting in PvM.

[Goossens]

The changes are fine but instead of giving enfs/fixers etc etc more healing, remove all their healing, they all heal way to much right now and all we get is more healing, our healing is enough in pvm and in pvp you cant heal when stunned anyways, remove all procs and healing from dd classes and lets go back to where docs have to swap for dimach to kill people and actually be able to land heal debuff perk on advies/agents etc, adjust cast req in fp to +50% of original so they cant go nr2 and such, we already got screwed with the +dmg adding to perks, this is just another screw up and anyone that thinks the extra healing is great doesnt know how to heal in pvm right now

[Baby]

I'm on the fence on this one.
On the one hand I find the old values too high. Doing a hard dyna like LotV becomes too stupidly easy as soon as UBT and the -init proc(s) lands. You even have time to go get coffee between the stupidly slow hits the dragon will throw at you.
On the other hand I find this change so drastic that I'm starting to doubt the value of even casting UBT. It's one of the most resisted nanos in my doc's arsenal, and if it just fail once, one of my dots will run out, making me loose my much needed damage. On all but the toughest mobs, it's a better investment just to skip UBT and outheal whatever extra damage you get. LotV like mobs are still doable, but will take an enormous effort, due to dots running out, when UBT fails. That encourages teaming and is a fine change IMO.
TL;DR:
Old values of doc init debuffs and duration - Too powerful
New values - Not worth casting in PvM.

It is indeed less worth casting. Went Capricorn with an advi, to see the new tank abilities of advis incl taunts. We suddenly got agg from Capri + Blue + Hisii. Which was nice, because they like UBT so much...
Anyway, UBT runs out so fast, you hardly even notice when busy healing. At one point I had to make a decision: refresh UBT on Hisii or heal and let it run out. I went for refreshing UBT - bad mistake. I wouldn't do it again. Hisii killed me because I was unable to do anything except perks for a whole 5 sec, and BGH didn't fire fast enough. Also, don't know if that UBT even landed.