Added defence - Deflect onto existing mechanics

[Esqi]

Im happy some development is coming along with AO, finally after all these years some changes are taking place and kudos are there for the devs etc - well done.

I like the change to Riposte with the creation of Deflect.

What is of a big concern is that nothing has been said about defences in general, currently its either yes or no with regards to hits and perks landing. Perks are definitely NO if you cant land them and specials outside of AS are much the same (FA+BURST+FLING+FAST ATTACK+BRAWL).

So what we have here is extra DEF to players.

We currently have the roll chances that checks against DEF rating v OFF rating (generalisation) and were adding an extra roll of up to 15%.

The concern here is that DEF minded players will gain an extra 15% chance to minimise dmg via the deflect mechanism.

What changes are proposed (if any) that FC can shed some light on with regards to an all or nothing approach?

Perks should do damage regardless of the opponent, mitigated by the DEF rating and dodged occasionally. Sure DEF profs should evade/dodge hits, but at the moment all were seeing is added DEF layers and chances.

FWIW: Thinking of coming back and as a ranged proff im not impressed with extra DEF.

[Thor84]

What happened with riposte? I thought parry got changed to deflect and not riposte?

[Esqi]

Sorry i meant Parry.

Showing my time away.

Thread still counts.

[Xootch]

Join date 2003. When was it that riposte and parry were disabled? Yes, its true progress when mistakes of the past are made anew.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

A lot of profs are dealing with their own issues afaik. So I think it's fair to say nobody will really have much idea of how inter prof encounters will play out... I'm still trying to figure out how MA's are going to heal while playing solo with nano-cost on regular heals being roughly 4.5x more than they were previously.

[Esqi]

I like change in general especially for AO, should hit registration & calc remain the same with the added def check bonus and DEF overall not being looked at..

Appears depressing.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

well soldiers are getting another 130 AR to compensate?

I mean you'll be less likely to miss vs evaders...?

Furthermore, you're kind of looking at deflect in a biased light. There's a calc somewhere I can't recall who did it that basically formulated the current skill cap for deflect at 4000, that means, 4000 deflect gives 15% chance, with a base of 5%. So that means based on linear interpolation 400 points of parry gives 1% extra chance at deflect.

With the top deflect profs capping out at around 2200 or so, its not exactly awe inspiring defence, especially when you consider that a deflected hit only provides 50% mitigation vs most attacks.

Best case scenario with fully IP'd deflect you might only realise a 5% increase in damage mitigation.

Again, hardly game changing.

[Esqi]

I think solds are losing AAO in some buffs and gaining it in another area.. just moving the goal posts. Still ok with it.

Glad you responded to the thread, you do provide some rational approach.

Still extra DEF, 5% or not is still extra chance.

I do however hope they look at AR v DEF and make it less on or off.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I guess the last thing to remember is that solds are getting deflect as well.

Arguing that it only affects your offence, but neglecting to admit it helps your defence is an incomplete argument.

Consider for a moment that solders do use CC, which does add parry, and you could IP it if you wanted to with an AR/RE swap setup, and thus gain perhaps a 8% boost in deflect.

While it may not matter considerably during AMS, you might find it a redeeming defence tactic when faced with an agent/trader/enf/shade/MA/soldier/fixer /whoever in the 40s you need to tank in the moment AMS drops. Considering it's a 8% chance that the AS won't cap your HP... hey, it MIGHT be just enough to save your ass to get off another alpha.

Since it's not relegated to strictly screw up soldiers/FA users, you need to consider it's value as a defensive tactic as well.

[Esqi]

Agree it can be used as a sold as well, but besides buffing it i can see it only really being useful if your a DEF sold, a.k.a Marine for example.

My issue is when its stacked with an evade proff, they are effectively gaining more DEF - 5-10% depending aint it?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

a prof who has no other defence will gain the most from it.

If a enforcer has a buttload of deflect he'll gain the most mitigation from it because an enforcer eats so much damage.

A MA or shade who can evade a lot of damage will likely see less of a boost (maybe in the 1-1.5% range) to overall defence.

like put it this way: You try to pop a FA on MA 10 times, it hits him 3 times so an MA is already mitigating 70% of the damage already. Now, you add deflect and of the 3 FA's that hit him, maybe only 1 more bullet is glanced, so overall mitigation is almost negligible as a result.

In the enforcers case, you pop him with 10 FA's and 10 hit, but now because he's got deflect, he's going to mitigate a ****load more damage because way less bullets will land.

[Cratertina]

Hmm, what about crat in CC armor? I see I can get it to around 1200 so that's 3%? 8% total deflect for 180 evades missing. (but gain of 90 AAD) Would that be any viable?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I think CSS>CC for profs that aren't generally built to utilize deflect.

For the profs that don't have a natural build for it, it's really not going to be a valid mechanism to pursue, especially when it's a dark blue IP investment.

[Awikun]

The whole deflect idea is very bad.

It is another random factor which has nothing to do with skill (same mistake as with procs).

It would be a lot beter if deflect was something that work like perk special for example once you activate deflect you are reducing all incoming damage by 20% to 50% (depending on amount of skill) for lets say 10 or 20 seconds with recharge of 1 or 2 minutes (duration and recharge could also be somehow dependant on amount of deflect skill).

With such implementation it would be controlled by player and his skill because it would be player's choice when to use it. Adding another mehanics that activates randomly is just stupid...

[blackhawks]

Hitting 1900 deflect on my enforcer which is more than the 1600 a 220 ma I met had. Gonna be a nice boost to enforcers damage mitigation seeing as we lost 19,000 hp.