Martial Artists have been given enough already! Enough is Enough!

[______________Shatai]

Originally posted by Intrepid
Ohh and you didn't state who wanted FFOK changed and the advantage it provides MAs other then nerfing engies.

Did anyone want FFoK changed? As DaveDread said above, MAs have basically been saying that it sucks. The only advantage we get is that our skill stays the same, it doesn't go up, it stays the same, while everyone else's potential MA skill drops by FFoK.

It's a nerf for any non-MA that uses MA. Description should have been changed, not the effect.

[____________mgbkurtz]

this is crazy....

have we gotten alot of stuff, usually something in every patch...yes..

but:
1/ the 'fear' line is a joke
2/ riposite and sharp objects (green skills) are a joke
3/ FoL has been broken for a while
4/ the 'fists' line is not as glorious as you think (i dont use it in team missions)
5/ two lines of nano programs are mostly unused (armor, lend nano/health) b/c of blue/dark blue nano skills...find me an MA that casts Form of Tessai and Cohort under 150?
6/ no bow buff (yet another green skill)
7/ "destruction line" is useless in PvP (cant heal)
8/ if i am rooted, i am dead meat in PvP

what i WILL admit:
1/ MA suits are nice (and agents use them too, dont forget)
2/ claws are a nice impliment
3/ LLTS is overpowered with MA-crit buffs, but i can argue that they are overpowered on any prof..
4/ 14.4 improved evades, w/ them maxed yellows cant hit me and reds rarely crit (but this helps everyone)

what you forget (crat, engi):
1/ crat is the best solo prof in the game (maybe behind MA; i'd love to have 3 pets fighting one MOB for me...), so dont gimme this crap that crats need love...pet pathing is a problem though

2/ engis have the best MA buff in the game (slayerdroid transference, a 170 engi had 1200 attack rating while I at 132 had a 850 attack rating...go figure)

3/ MAs are supposed to have the best damage over time of any prof, including soldiers...and we take alot of damage in teams as well...i want to see a doc in a BS team w/o one or two MAs helping out with spam healing

i really dont know what else to say. we are balanced fine. everyone complains that "oh, my class isn't good at PvP"...maybe your class wasn't supposed to be. honestly, MAs are probably luke warm when it comes to PvP anyways (at 125+)

kurtz

[Cemetarygate]

Lucid Flow,

"- Added Small Ebony Figurines for the Martial Artist. While every profession got these, Martial Artist ones are some of the most useful for their profession added to their main skills and to treatment. When compared to Crat figurines. for example, which either use a nano skill we have no use for or add to skills we dont use (Matter Met and Melee Energy) it seems silly."

While you may find the items useful for the martial artists community, martial artists may not.

The Small Ebony Figurine adds 10 to treatment. Ql 200 Treatment Library adds 18 to treatment. So, I consider the +10 treatment Ebony figure useless. Not to mention the fact I have to be title 6 to wear the figurine, whereas I've had my Ql 200 Treatment Library equipped since 154. Both items share the Util 2 slot.

Also, comparing my Ql 200 Treatment Library to the other Small Ebony Figurines, I consider the Ql 200 Treatment Library much more valuable as the library allows me to use ql 200 Nano Rechargers; and the added first aid allows me to use ql 125 Nano Kits. +8 martial arts, or +10 dimach/brawl is not enough of a difference to give up my ql 200 Nano Chargers and ql 125 Nano Kits. Both items share the Util 2 slot.

Safe to say all classes consider their Small Ebony Figurines a joke?

"-Added Area of Effect Fears effectively giving Martial Artists some of the best Crowd Control on the game. Before this, only Crats and Enforcers had single target fears. These both made sense, Enforcers being big and scary and Crats being the masters of crowd control. Why did Martial Artists need fears?'

"best Crowd Control on the game" is highly debatable. I'd have to do much more testing, but appears the fear nanos work 30% of the time and have a very limited range.

"- Special Arrows were added to be used with Bow Special Attack. The only profession with Green Bow special is Martial Artists."

Around the same time Bow Special Attack requirements were removed from all bows (from the bows that had them anyway). So, anyone having a dark blue Bow Special Attack skill didn't have to spend IP on the skill. A plus for non martial artist bow users.

Lucid Flow, I'm not disagreeing with you. The point of my post is show some of the patches arn't as martial arts oriented as some may think.

Each class should have equal attention and newer toys so everyone stays interested with their character and continue to have fun. Nice to have a little something each patch for my martial artist, but I too would like to see some stuff for my doctor and engineer.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow
I don't see why? Presence of the Dominator is an Area of Effect 41 second duration Fear that takes only 706 in Psymod and Biomet to use, and has a Psychic Check of 449.

For a Crat, Horror from the Darkest Pit is a single target fear, with the SAME psychic check of 449, and takes 833 in Psymod and Biomet to use.

How exactly is that useless?

Please note the MA buff has a 1m range while the Crat buff has a 20m range. MAs have to practically stand on top of the mob for the nano to be effective.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Shatai
Lucid, as you said, this stuff has been VITAL fixes and improvements. Most of it, not all, as I've outlined above, and all of this has been IMHO (so I expect some to disagree on things). Now, rather than simply calling for a stop to anything for MAs, I'd like to suggest a more positive approach. Give FunCom so many ideas for the other classes that need it, Engies, Crats, and so forth, good ideas, ideas they could and would implement, that they don't have TIME to put more MA stuff in.

Wouldn't that be better?

I could, or I could just refer you to these professions message boards, where literally pages upon pages of this have already been done, and yet ignored for over 10 patches.

I have been posting ideas for Crats myself since 12.5. How many of my ideas have actually made it into the game? 0.

In fact, since release there have been 4 things done for Crats, 2 are nerfs basically crippling the profession and 2 are additions that only help us in a marginal way because they weren't directed toward our professions main skills.

Also I'de like to note, that 1 of our 2 fixes currently don't work as intended and both of our nerfs weren't thought out enough (as stated by Funcom themselves) and leave gaps in character growth and in the high end game especially.

1) Speeches added. Demotivational speeches currently break mez and have not been fixed since they were released.

2) The Baton line was changed from 1%/2%/3% to 3%/6%/9%.

3) Charms were nerfed from an unlimited amount of 40 second charms with no Psychic check to 2 lines of Charms with obvious and clear gaps in the Psychic checks of these nanos, effectively making them useless for over 100 levels.

4) Fear had psychic checks added, again with bigger gaps in them effectively making them useless for most of the game.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Shatai
It won't matter how much damage we deal if we can't break roots. And as soon as FC gets around to fixing the "self-cast debuff breaks root" thing, then that will be pretty much it for us, just root and run away, unless there's something that lets us break root.

This isn't a PVP issue. This is an all around issue. And don't give me that Roots kill Martial Artists. With Bow buffs and newer better MARTIAL ARTIST ONLY bows coming out, it will be an answer to your rooting prayers.

And has a much higher Nano Resist check. Go to Jayde's DB, find the fears, then click the click for the single-target nano at the bottom which is what is actually cast on the mobs. Very high NR. Very short duration too. And again, personally I can't see why we got these. Personally (because some MAs might want them) I'd be happy enough without them.

Higher resist check is no excuse for a nano as powerful as an area of effect fear given to the most pwerful useful and viable professions in the game who did not need them in the first place.

It's no excuse to give a clear and obvious crowd control nano to a non-crowd controlling profession.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by DaveDread
By all means, more love to you right frigging now, but stopping anything interesting from going to MA's aint gonna make it happen any faster.

Well, perception is everything. When Martial Artists are getting something every damned patch, and no end is near and yet... Crats debuff nanos have been broken since their released and have been ignored since.... it becomes frustrating.

[_________________DIO]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow


Yet, Martial Artists can use both a weapon and the fists at the same time.

-----------------
i am 195 ma atm i use claw sice 14.2 till FC make eva skill more useful. with claw my attack rating is 100 lower than fist only .... this 100 means a lot , if u attack yellow, green mobs i eill say all ma weapon will make more dmg .... but red mobs will dodge parry ay attack from the ma weapons since the attack rating is <1k ( usually) and if u try it on some new boss after 14.5 ma weapon is totally useless. with fish only i miss/parry like 80% on primus ..... with claw lol 90% or 95% .( not joke yes 1115 atk miss 80% on primus hehe they all have GA5 ). it is hard to say which is better fist only / fist + weapon, but when u fight with high lev mobs ma weapon not that useful.

PS. fist + weapon ! = 1+1=2. 20/20 ( fist/weapon) on max speed in 1 mins .

Yet, I see them use it all the time. In fact, I see them use them for alphas as well. Not only do you get a choice of fists, many MA special attacks, but you get martial arts weapons and bows.... Very nice.

yes i use x-bow to alpha too . but 14.6 nerf it to rifle 66%/bow 33% so we lost it . .

Ps. no now buff still ........ + 2 imp i have 880 bow skill( without 2 D sleeve) . new 14.6 bow no special===> no alpha===> 3s equipe time .......... and don't think it will drop lol



Health Points do mot many you kill anything any faster. I don't have a problem with MAs specializing in Criticals, I have a hard time with Martial Artists damage output being not just slightly, but dramatically higher then every other professions in the game. If they are supposed to be the masters of damage, then fine, ALL they should have is damage. But now they have all damage and no disadvantage. Don't tell me 8 second recharge on heals is a significant disadvantage.

MA can cirtical is the base ability of this prof just like doc can heal enf have a lot hp so i don't think it worth to discuss here
and the worst heal is ok becasue we do most dmg in all healing prof

The best Martial Artist fear has the same Psychic check and speed as the best Crat Fear, yet is area of effect and takes less skill to use. [/B][/QUOTE]

ma fear is not as good as it should be .... i test it on 190ish misisons ..... 10 mobs follow me i use 1 2 of them run away ....... and after like 3-5 sec they run back to me lol


last word is ma are not overpowered and haven't got tooooooooooo much love. they are just a balance prof like DOC/ trader/fixer/ adv hehe ( still wanna more like all other prof at least west wind katana )

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Hayake
Oh right, please state to me which ma asked for FFoK to be fixed and elaborate what advantage it is to ma's.

It essentially makes Martial Artists the best at using Martial Arts (except probably an MA Engineer in a Slayer). Relatively speaking, compared to non-ma (and engy) professions using Martial Arts as a viable damage source, the martial artist has gotten a boost in relative terms.

Secondly, yes there will be one new bow that is ma only, but also nodrop and probably on a mob in Ian Warrs undefeatable Blood Bat posse. A bow that has no specials and an equip time that will make it suck in pvp anyways, and in pvm I can't see it outdamaging fists.

Irrelevant where or how you get it. The fact that focus has been so much on Martial Artists to give them more and more and more to a point of absurdity is making a lot of people frustrated.

Hence the mock "Martial Artists Online"

You don't understand. Crats have gotten speeches 10+ patches ago, and yet Crats STILL are saying "At least we have useful speeches" even tho we have had nothing new since then, and the speeches themselves essentially don't work.

How frustrating is that? A supposed fix that doesn't even work.

On the other hand some of the non complete crap bows will now be 66% rifle skill, meaning about every NON-MA profession will be better at using them than ma's.

Crossbows, which are essentially rifles that shoot arrows.

Your arguments are as silly, yes uvc line self only was a COMPARATIVE boost, upping fist damage a boost an sich and the ma suits are nice. Everything else done for ma's were very slight tweaks at best.

Silly? It seems everybody who doesn't agree is a Martial Artist. Every other profession is frustrated beyond the breaking point and agrees 100%.

I would give my left arm for tweaks, fixes and adjustments to my professions. Yet it seems that I am endlessly overlooked to create balanced Bows for martial artists.

The way you are argueing I could just as well say stop fixing soldiers after all you got a new weapon about every of the last few patches and you get a bunch of new nano's in 14.6. Well, most of them may suck but by your logic that is not important, just the fact that some uber rare item or semi useless stuff is being thrown at a profession seems to be enough to start whining.

By my logic? Soldiers have gotten some new weapons in the last.... 1 patch... and now they get buffs promised to them months and months ago.

Yet, Martial Artists have gotten new items for the last 10+ patches. How are they they same at all?

[_________________DIO]

Originally posted by The World

-----------------
i am 195 ma atm i use claw sice 14.2 till FC make eva skill more useful. with claw my attack rating is 100 lower than fist only .... this 100 means a lot , if u attack yellow, green mobs i eill say all ma weapon will make more dmg .... but red mobs will dodge parry ay attack from the ma weapons since the attack rating is <1k ( usually) and if u try it on some new boss after 14.5 ma weapon is totally useless. with fish only i miss/parry like 80% on primus ..... with claw lol 90% or 95% .( not joke yes 1115 atk miss 80% on primus hehe they all have GA5 ). it is hard to say which is better fist only / fist + weapon, but when u fight with high lev mobs ma weapon not that useful.

PS. fist + weapon ! = 1+1=2. 20/20 ( fist/weapon) on max speed in 1 mins .

Yet, I see them use it all the time. In fact, I see them use them for alphas as well. Not only do you get a choice of fists, many MA special attacks, but you get martial arts weapons and bows.... Very nice.

yes i use x-bow to alpha too . but 14.6 nerf it to rifle 66%/bow 33% so we lost it . .

Ps. no now buff still ........ + 2 imp i have 880 bow skill( without 2 D sleeve) . new 14.6 bow no special===> no alpha===> 3s equipe time .......... and don't think it will drop lol



Health Points do mot many you kill anything any faster. I don't have a problem with MAs specializing in Criticals, I have a hard time with Martial Artists damage output being not just slightly, but dramatically higher then every other professions in the game. If they are supposed to be the masters of damage, then fine, ALL they should have is damage. But now they have all damage and no disadvantage. Don't tell me 8 second recharge on heals is a significant disadvantage.

MA can cirtical is the base ability of this prof just like doc can heal enf have a lot hp so i don't think it worth to discuss here
and the worst heal is ok becasue we do most dmg in all healing prof

The best Martial Artist fear has the same Psychic check and speed as the best Crat Fear, yet is area of effect and takes less skill to use.

ma fear is not as good as it should be .... i test it on 190ish misisons ..... 10 mobs follow me i use 1 2 of them run away ....... and after like 3-5 sec they run back to me lol


last word is ma are not overpowered and haven't got tooooooooooo much love. they are just a balance prof like DOC/ trader/fixer/ adv hehe ( still wanna more like all other prof at least west wind katana )

[_________________DIO]

bah donno how to use quote lol sorry guys hard to read i know

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
Lucid Flow, I'm not disagreeing with you. The point of my post is show some of the patches arn't as martial arts oriented as some may think.

That's fine. But you have to understand, I added all changes to make a point.

The point is to show Funcom is even focused on the LITTLE things about a Martial Artist as well as the big.

You made a few points, let me make a couple.

1) In the last 10+ patches, Funcom implemented a whole line of Crat debuffs that effecively dont work as inteded and has never been fixed since.

2) Martial Artists get small bonuses to Brawl, Martial Arts, Inits and what not, all effective skills for Martial Artists. Crat figurines add to Melee Energy.... and another uses Matter Met to use, a nano skill that NO SINGLE CRAT NANO USES.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
Please note the MA buff has a 1m range while the Crat buff has a 20m range. MAs have to practically stand on top of the mob for the nano to be effective.

Also note Martial Arts is a Close Combat profession, that will ALWAYS be on top of the mob anyway.

Crats are a Ranged Profession, with all of our nanos geared toward keeping the mobs away from us.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by The World

-----------------
i am 195 ma atm i use claw sice 14.2 till FC make eva skill more useful. with claw my attack rating is 100 lower than fist only .... this 100 means a lot , if u attack yellow, green mobs i eill say all ma weapon will make more dmg ....

Also note that your attack rating only effects the CLAW part of your skill.

Your Martial Arts fist attack rating is the same with or without a claw equipped. It works the same for dual weilding.

[______________Shatai]

LucidFlow,

I've been to the crat board before, read your profession reports, complaints, and that 'study' (seems to be the word for it) on the charm lines, pointing out how "useful" (note the marks around useful) they were, and the gaps.

I'd guess that when/if Cosmik gets back, and when/if professional program gets rolling again, there'll be more response to that. Wish I could say you'll get the answer you're looking for, but going on Funcom's track record, I somehow doubt it.

Still, it'll be interesting to see.

I realize this isn't a PvP issue, most things seem to be, or come about because of people thinking about PvP. Believe me, I can't stand it, and am glad that it's not about PvP. Yes, it will be nice to have a viable option while rooted. Won't do much good if we're hit with a 10+ minute root in mission and have to stand there while we wait for it to wear off, and team races ahead

Once again, a lot of people couldn't believe it when those MA fear nanos were added, myself, and a lot of other MAs included. Davedread made that exact point earlier, I believe. We certainly didn't ask for it, I'm fairly sure people weren't seriously complaining at any point about the MA's lack of crowd control.

[_____________Borrace]

Originally posted by The World

well eng and crat is so poor get no love but don't shout ma get too much ........ looks at agent/adv/fixer 's new love( which is actually in game )

uh...don't throw advents into this at all. our "new love" has major problems which will probably never be fixed for one reason or another.

[__________THEDEACON!]

LOL

*looks at the ellts and VE scopes which MAs will no longer be able to use*

*looks at the new MA bow with a 3 second equip time and no specials*

*looks at the changes to UVC coming up*

*looks at the skill requirement change on the crossbows (66% rifle)*

*Looks at the broken martial artist attacks: bright blue cloudless sky and all flower of life other than ql60 and ql200*

Sure, keep the loving coming

MAs are a decent profession, alright in pvp (not Gods as I used to think) leave em alone. I used to think like you guys until I actually started levelling an MA. Not overpowered at all. Balanced. Seems everyone wants MAs broken again or something. Oh, and non-crit fists damage is teh suck. Don't say uvc is overpowered. It wasn't overpowered when we were casting it on you, now was it? hehe.

Think about it: 15% ellts, 4% tts, 7% crat speech or MOP = 26% crit (this isn't including natural crit or tarasque loot such as globe of clarity)

UVC= 24% crit. Still think we're overpowered?

Or if you want to be fair and say "well I cant afford a 15% scope"

8% VE scope, 4% tts, 7% crat speech or MOP = 19%

UVC = 24% and fists crit for ALOT less than a good shottie or flashpoint or something, even less than a beam.

Now shutup and go back under the bridge, trolls. You will do as much damage or more damage than an equal levelled MA as of next patch. There, that's enough with the whining. Get some education before you open your mouths.

Next patch, agents are the crit kings. And no, do not nerf the agents. We've seen enough nerfs in this game to last a lifetime, thank you.

Instead, I'm actually be concerned with how the scope changes are going to affect enforcers and adventurers. The nerf doesn't seem very fair to them, does it? Especially considering they have the disadvantage of melee going for them. It seems that the nerf was designed for the MA (why does nobody realize that MAs are getting nerfed next patch? duuuuh), it's REALLY going to screw Adv and enforcers more than anything. They need to rethink how an adventurer is going to stack up against an agent.....

[______________Shatai]

Originally posted by TheDeacon
They need to rethink how an adventurer is going to stack up against an agent.....

Transform into a leet and roll around looking cute?

Sorry, couldn't resist.....

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Shatai
Once again, a lot of people couldn't believe it when those MA fear nanos were added, myself, and a lot of other MAs included. Davedread made that exact point earlier, I believe. We certainly didn't ask for it, I'm fairly sure people weren't seriously complaining at any point about the MA's lack of crowd control.

I understand. Some people think for me to say "Stop focusing on Martial Artists" that i'm making fun of them or doing something to them PERSONALLY.

I'm not talking to you, Davedread or any other Martial Artist that plays this game. I AM talking to FUNCOM.

Martial Artists are getting things every patch that they are NOT asking for, and yet every other profession has had their requests ignored for over 1 year.

[Cz]

The concern has been noted, and we will take it into consideration. That's the only thing I will promise.