Martial Artists have been given enough already! Enough is Enough!

[_____________TanisAS]

Time to close this thread methinks. People are too busy trying to stop other peoples content to campaign and accept our help to get theirs. Its not going anywhere and I can only repeat myself so many times.

Im all for everyone else getting their fixes and content. Im with you if you need an extra voice just lob me a pm or /tell me in game and as long as your ideas are well constructed and thought out il back you with everything iv got. I WILL NEVER! come down on any class who is recieving content even if I am not. I will just ask for some too.

Go get your content you deserve it. Stop splitting your resources to stop ours.

Peace

[Jynne]

Honestly I see this entire thread as Yet Another Reason Why Profession-Specific Items Are Bad (tm)

If all these items being added weren't MA-only... but equipped off skills that are green and important for MAs... what would be the complaint?

[Phione]

This is not about just one bow, but a planning issue. Right now MA is the most balanced (?) profession in the game, so just leave them as it is and fix the rest of the population.

Instead of coming up with a weapon for the most balanced profession, Dev Team is suppose to, for example, create a nano for Engie, or balance the Engie Bot damage output, or what ever.

Also, coming up with a new weapon takes just as much as balancing the classes, because they need to balance the weapon aginst other profession's damage output and so on.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by TanisAS
Adding a damn bow in 14.6 does not detract from everyone else.

Not even a readily available bow but a nodrop one.

That takes more resources them you may think.

1) Need to come up with item basic damage, crit damage and speed, along with specials.

2) Balance #1 based on current availability of weapons in game currently.

3) Balance drop ration and the mob from which it actually drops.

4) Balance Bow in PVM and PVP situations.

5) Take all of the above to the test servers and mess around with them until they are correct.

6) Balance Equip times and requirments.

7) Code this all into the game along with graphics.

If you think Funcom just creates and item, rolls some dice to find which mob it drops on and that's the end of that, you are sadly mistaken. 1 item may not seem like much, but there is a lot of thought and work that goes into it, ESPECIALLY an item that is Nodrop.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by TanisAS
Im all for everyone else getting their fixes and content. Im with you if you need an extra voice just lob me a pm or /tell me in game and as long as your ideas are well constructed and thought out il back you with everything iv got. I WILL NEVER! come down on any class who is recieving content even if I am not. I will just ask for some too.

Go get your content you deserve it. Stop splitting your resources to stop ours.

Peace

If Funcom had a track record showing that they can actually multi-task with regards to profession content, I would agree with you.

But they don't. In fact, they have proven over and over again that the resources they have are SOOO limited that they are confined to one profession at a time.

We know they have limited resources. We aren't dumb. What we want is a shift in focus so that EVER profession is essentially "done" and then new things can be added to every profession because they won't have to focus on a single one every single patch.

Trust me in a perfect world I would not have asked for a temporary halt in Martial Artist content. But MY profession of choice has simply been overlooked since 11.0 and since 13.4, EVERY OTHER PROFESSION -- not just mine -- has been overlooked in order to balance Martial Artists.

What you are saying is somewhat hypocritical. Funcom basically STOPPED working on all other professions for the last 10+ patches, put them ALL TO THE SIDE to work on Martial Artists. You were happy about that weren't you? At the time, nobody complained because they needed it.

You loved it when Funcom halted everybody elses content to fix your profession. Let others have that same privledge.

[Treonaut]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow


That takes more resources them you may think.

1) Need to come up with item basic damage, crit damage and speed, along with specials.

2) Balance #1 based on current availability of weapons in game currently.

3) Balance drop ration and the mob from which it actually drops.

4) Balance Bow in PVM and PVP situations.

5) Take all of the above to the test servers and mess around with them until they are correct.

6) Balance Equip times and requirments.

7) Code this all into the game along with graphics.

If you think Funcom just creates and item, rolls some dice to find which mob it drops on and that's the end of that, you are sadly mistaken. 1 item may not seem like much, but there is a lot of thought and work that goes into it, ESPECIALLY an item that is Nodrop.

But, if they didn't put the stupid "Martial Artists Only" label on it, then there would be lots of happy people instead of everybody angry. I see so many people who like the Bow (like Adventurer who wants to be an outdoor man), who look and see this thing and think Funcom hates them and only loves martial artists. Happy you use a bow, now there is a new one. But, you can only look at it and not use.

[Xaielao]

They addin stuff to MA's cause the MA's got the very first nerf in the game.

'low lvl' ma dmg was nerfed at the very end of beta4, days before shipping. Then high lvl ma's (well, high lvl at this time was like lvl60) always hit for min dmg.

So they still tryin to make up for it .


That makes me think. Funcom has spent so much time over the past year slowing leveling, when infact it somehow sped it up by 2x or more. Back in the early days even fast levelers took a month to get to 30th. ***** the first person to hit 200 (a female MA, don't remember her name right now, ironic ah?) didn't hit 200 for like 6 months.

Now we see newbies who's first characters got to 50 in 2 weeks time. Funny isn't it?

Tell ya the truth 14.6 is all about slowing leveling and introducing outdoor hunting again, even more so then in the past. Just wait till it hits live, you'll see.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by TanisAS
Adding content to a balanced class doesnt take huge ammounts of resources away from everyone.

You just seem to have an axe to grind with MA`s... sorry but thats how it seems.

-snip redundant-

Campaign (the last time im saying this since this thread just bugs me now) for your own balance and your own content not to have less on other people.

I am very uncomfortable with the fact that my day 1 chosen proffesion is considered uber (we aint that great good but not godly) and that every monkey and his donkey is making an MA just for the plain fact they think we are uber.

I want balance on everyone else I want people to play those classes because diversity is what makes life interesting.

So rather than knocking my content be constructive and go campaign for your own.

Peace out

Again MA's seem to think this is a 'hate' thread about the rest of the players wanting them nerfed

/yawn

Is asking FC to STOP future MA work and go give other profs some sttention.

Lucid is not asking for anything to be taken away from MA's

Your statement that the other profs havent been asking for anything is so absurd its offensive, I can only guess you only hang out on the MA board????

Sure you can argue that other profs got 'stuff' in recent patches, lets take a look shall we....

Engineer for example....
Couple of bits of armour and that may drop from a guy (the one) who needs 40+ level 200's to kill

New nano that is supposed to improve our pets, however it, like our pets, is a complete joke (thats before you notice the 190 odd level requirment)

Spider poison gland (pistol) - no one has found one yet

Jack the legchopper prof ring - only any good to MA Engineers, assuming you can find and kill Jack the uber camped

2x custom made rings - no one has found either yet

Mole Sonar - Buff perception and sence (break out the party guys!)

So to summarise, all the stuff is high level Eng, hasnt been found (which suggests it isnt dropping) or is crud, and heres a class that REALLY needs fixing!

[_____________TanisAS]

I didnt say you havent been asking for anything. But ma`s have been getting such a bashing recently it makes me think some people not all of those who have posted here could spend their time better by fighting for their own profession.

If the title of this thread had been "Yo FC can we have some stuff too" I would have been the first to bump it.

But its not its asking for my 2 items extra a month to stop while they add to everyone else. If you truly dont have the resources to give me 2 damn items a month to keep it interesting then for the love of god stop it for a while because although many of the people on here arent supporting the thread in an MA hating way there are 2 people for each one of those who just want stuff for themselves.

Iv said again and again that I WANT YOU TO GET STUFF.


I have said again and again that I will help in any way im able but tell me honestly if you were getting 2 more items per month would you want it to stop?

I do agree with many of the posts saying that the prof specific title is complete crap. If you want one prof to use it more than the others then make part of the reqs a skill that that prof invariably uses that way professions (such as doc and engi)who also use that profs primary skill are able to use it.

Im sorry I dont believe that concocting 2 items per month for a profession is slowing down everyone elses fixes the only thing thats slowing down those fixes is that FC has always been capable of adding content but never capable of fixing the real issues they always throw us a bone and then we go... umm hold on we didnt ask for this WE WANTED TO BE BLOODY FIXED.

If CZ can post here and say the devs are to incompetant to add a few bits of content to each class per patch WHILE fixing the other professions then yeah stop our content.

Iv already said im on your side and that I want you to get sorted, dont rip me because I dont want my professions game to go on hold because you would do the same.

[Aake]

For the "MAs are uber" whining I'm here to tell you we're not.

We have no good ranged weapons to speak of (hence MAs have flirted with Shotguns and now River 6 series since the start of AO).
I'm not sure how familiar Lucid is with melee-only classes but basically in large, open areas like 2ho we die. Pure and simple.

The range of the MA is so small that anybody has plenty of time to root you, deprive/slow/plunder, back up and alpha you ... And the MA is feeling woozy from Rez effects @ reclaim.
However, in small rooms like Camelot we rock because there's not alot of real estate to mess around in ...

All the successful MAs I know all use either a River 6 or Bow to initiate combat because of specials and range (if you do get rooted you just leave it on). But with all the talk of nerfing both UVC and scopes so that they can't be used by melee classes is rediciulous to a point:

1) Yes a 15% scope is very powerful on an MA, but that MA has to get close enough to hit you first of all.
Think of the enforcers too ... what happens to them? No crit buffs outside of MoP (+4%), no scopes. Hitpoints will only prolong the inevitable. Their death.
How about Docs? MA is a green skill for them. They will be hurting greatly from a scope nerf vs. melee weapons. 100% heals in PvP or not.
How about Engi's? Even though they inexplicably get better MA buffs than MAs do, the scope nerf will END ma skill Engi's lives.

2) To nerf SG/VS/UVC to include a ranged init debuff is just downright rude! Due to affor mentioned low range for fists, in places like 2ho the only way to hit someone is with a ranged wep. MAs will never get close enough ...
Especially since Nano Resist is so fickle ... no one knows if it actually works and what level it needs to be at. I've never resisted a root, ever. Full def. 800+ NR, it doesn't seem to matter.

If we could find some middle ground ... maybe the new scopes (+8% max) could stay as is?

But I guess the reality is, is that all this whining is only in the PvP realm. PvM uber dmg = faster XP and that nice XP reward for completion. But no-one cares about that. Everyone just wants the MAs to get nerfed

Someone said this recently on fourms ... 1-1 PvP will NEVER be balanced. There will always be a profession that is better vs another profession. Perhaps that's why the tourney decided on 2-2 ... to try and negate as best they could any given professions' advantage over any other. To their credit there have been different winners each time which successfuly reflects their decision.

I am currently a lvl 173 MA using an 8% vision enhancer without a ranged weapon. I, like Azzazzimon, have not wanted to go with the trends of using River weapons, but FC maybe leave no other choice for MAs who PvP @ higher levels because of the rumored Bow nerf. I mean its rediculous that in our Proff description it says we excell @ bow. Well no MA can equip a ql 200 Bow. Only Traders can. Where's the sense in that?

I would like to see:

1) Kali self-only;
2) Bow buff for MA only;
3) At worst 8% scopes remaining as is;
4) SG/VS/LMA/UVC staying as is;
5) Nano resist being fixed or better implimented;
6) If crit buff/scopes get nerfed then a better MA skill buff. Because currently Engi's get a higher AR than pure MAs do (rediculous)

Anyway, i may ramble on a bit but i've tried to be eloquent and concise.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by TanisAS
IIm sorry I dont believe that concocting 2 items per month for a profession is slowing down everyone elses fixes

You may not believe it, but given Funcoms record, it sure seems that way.

Whether or not the statment is true, ALL that matters in this case is the perception of the public. It may be that they CAN add MA content and fix other professions problems, but the reality is they DON'T.

The fact that they don't stops this thread. It seems all they can do is either give MAs lots of stuff, or give MAs a little stuff and focus on non-profession parts of the game. It has been this way since 13.4.

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

Originally posted by Fion
***** the first person to hit 200 (a female MA, don't remember her name right now, ironic ah?) didn't hit 200 for like 6 months.

Kickey

It was less than 6 months, I'd guess half that, but she was leveling in a way you can't anymore, running exp missions without killing mobs for exp rewards when the rewards were about 10x what they are now at high levels. She was getting like 10m exp per mission she blitzed without killing a mob.

Exp was nurfed in a ton of ways. Her method was nurfed 2 times, once in the quantity of the reward, then in that you had to kill the mobs in the mission to get the reward.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Aake
For the "MAs are uber" whining I'm here to tell you we're not.

We have no good ranged weapons to speak of (hence MAs have flirted with Shotguns and now River 6 series since the start of AO).
I'm not sure how familiar Lucid is with melee-only classes but basically in large, open areas like 2ho we die. Pure and simple.

The range of the MA is so small that anybody has plenty of time to root you, deprive/slow/plunder, back up and alpha you ... And the MA is feeling woozy from Rez effects @ reclaim.
However, in small rooms like Camelot we rock because there's not alot of real estate to mess around in ...

All the successful MAs I know all use either a River 6 or Bow to initiate combat because of specials and range (if you do get rooted you just leave it on). But with all the talk of nerfing both UVC and scopes so that they can't be used by melee classes is rediciulous to a point:

1) Yes a 15% scope is very powerful on an MA, but that MA has to get close enough to hit you first of all.
Think of the enforcers too ... what happens to them? No crit buffs outside of MoP (+4%), no scopes. Hitpoints will only prolong the inevitable. Their death.
How about Docs? MA is a green skill for them. They will be hurting greatly from a scope nerf vs. melee weapons. 100% heals in PvP or not.
How about Engi's? Even though they inexplicably get better MA buffs than MAs do, the scope nerf will END ma skill Engi's lives.

2) To nerf SG/VS/UVC to include a ranged init debuff is just downright rude! Due to affor mentioned low range for fists, in places like 2ho the only way to hit someone is with a ranged wep. MAs will never get close enough ...
Especially since Nano Resist is so fickle ... no one knows if it actually works and what level it needs to be at. I've never resisted a root, ever. Full def. 800+ NR, it doesn't seem to matter.

If we could find some middle ground ... maybe the new scopes (+8% max) could stay as is?

But I guess the reality is, is that all this whining is only in the PvP realm. PvM uber dmg = faster XP and that nice XP reward for completion. But no-one cares about that. Everyone just wants the MAs to get nerfed

Someone said this recently on fourms ... 1-1 PvP will NEVER be balanced. There will always be a profession that is better vs another profession. Perhaps that's why the tourney decided on 2-2 ... to try and negate as best they could any given professions' advantage over any other. To their credit there have been different winners each time which successfuly reflects their decision.

I am currently a lvl 173 MA using an 8% vision enhancer without a ranged weapon. I, like Azzazzimon, have not wanted to go with the trends of using River weapons, but FC maybe leave no other choice for MAs who PvP @ higher levels because of the rumored Bow nerf. I mean its rediculous that in our Proff description it says we excell @ bow. Well no MA can equip a ql 200 Bow. Only Traders can. Where's the sense in that?

I would like to see:

1) Kali self-only;
2) Bow buff for MA only;
3) At worst 8% scopes remaining as is;
4) SG/VS/LMA/UVC staying as is;
5) Nano resist being fixed or better implimented;
6) If crit buff/scopes get nerfed then a better MA skill buff. Because currently Engi's get a higher AR than pure MAs do (rediculous)

Anyway, i may ramble on a bit but i've tried to be eloquent and concise.

The problem with some of your points is it fails to take 'balance' into account.

MA = martial arts = melee

I do Karate and I've not been shown how to use a bow or gun or anything??? While I appreciate that _some_martial arts do have ranged weapons (stars, bows etc) your prof selection dictates that there are somethings you wont be good at, so as far as ranged goes 'archaic' weapons should be your lot.

Yes your vunerable to roots (dont look for sympathy with a pet class on this) this is how you are balanced against a ranged class.

You cant expect to be able to do it all.

I feel that melee range is too generous as is with MOBs being able to hit me from miles away, if your so worried about roots and ranged invest in sneak or get yourself a cloaking device (yes I appreciate this may be IP intensive but 'hey' you want to compensate for your profs vunerabilities right?)

Yes MA Engineers are going to be hurt bad by the nerf, worse since this is the only real path we can take at high levels to be effective so most high level Engineers have gone this route

So to put it all into perspective Engineers (who went MA) have all the weaknesses of MA with respect to ranged combat & roots but without any of the 'nice toys' to make up for it in Melee (sure they have a higher AR but thats it - no heals, no specials and no crit buffs nada)

Being 'balanced' or 'finished' does not mean being able to do everything well

Remember uber is relative

[_____________TanisAS]

Sorry but I have to agree with certain nerf callers here.

Take my LLTS away it does unbalance me and I only use a 7% one. But thats the equivalent of MoP stacking with UVC... its not intended.

Anyone argueing that point I wouldnt even call a nerf caller.

Bow equip times I would like to be low though since its our only way of fighting root classes especially when after 14.6 we have no way of breaking them.

Anyway this thread has taken enough of our time now. Its time to move on.

My final comment is I am against prof restrictions and level reqs.

[________________Necc]

Originally posted by Borrace


this is retard logic.

most people play MAs because they are uber and easy to play. they are uber and easy to play because funcom keeps implementing new MA features. this makes the easier to play and more uber. which makes more people become MAs.

so under your "logic" funcom should just keep implementing new features on MAs because more and more people play them because of all the uber features funcom has already implemented?! i guess cratz will never get anything under this way of thinking.

so much for leveling the playing field, i guess.

Yep. Everyone MA = even playfield. Martial Artist Online, it's the newest expansion. 1 breed, 1 proffesion, 0% suppression.

[__________Beautyfarm]

you've gone pretty far from the original subject of the thread. let it die already, fc "noticed" the issue and will do something about it or not (prolly not..). no need to bash on each others heads.

[Cz]

Closing the thread now that some people have gotten the opportunity for a few more posts. As said, it's noted, and will be taken into account. No need to repeat the same arguments over and over for another 10 pages.

PS: Didn't an Agent beat Kicky in the run to 200? Ah well, not important.