Disable Inspect Function

[Iancu]

All I see in this is yet another way to separate the noobs from the pros, the haves from the have-nots. Bad move, FC.

[Alfamale]

I want an explanation what exactly is the intention of this?

Separate pro's from noobs? Separate those with resources from those who try to keep their head above water? Making players do the exploit hunting? Increase revenue from ingame shop?
Ruin some of the charm about making your own character? Another nail in the coffin for pvp? Another nail in the coffin for the game? What in gods name do they do on test anyways, gridstream party in ICC?

What?

There must be a very clear answer to this, someone need to explain it to me, because I'm not getting it.

[Unkfix]

As someone who regularly plays with inspect open on most toons, I can say that I get plenty of spam from this function and forcibly enabling it for all players will only lead to it being used in similar ways to those that the mentor function is used now.

[fakiiri]

What, they actually going to do this??
Seems they did not listen to players at all. once again.

[Slynn]

I want an explanation what exactly is the intention of this?

Separate pro's from noobs? Separate those with resources from those who try to keep their head above water? Making players do the exploit hunting? Increase revenue from ingame shop?
Ruin some of the charm about making your own character? Another nail in the coffin for pvp? Another nail in the coffin for the game? What in gods name do they do on test anyways, gridstream party in ICC?

What?

There must be a very clear answer to this, someone need to explain it to me, because I'm not getting it.

You right Alfa. It's got to be something like this. Or worse. The question is, what's the point of it and why those changes are always agains't people's will . I dont remember anyone's sugesting this change.
Some changes are needed, some others are made without people's consent/sugestion. Why?

[Traderjill]

I personally hope they expand on this open inspect change by allowing remote inspect from the lft, team, and RI.

[Doctrony]

I personally hope they expand on this open inspect change by allowing remote inspect from the lft, team, and RI.

I can see this going both ways. Personally, the currently suggested implementation doesn't bother me all that much, as I always have inspect open regardless. That said, I can see the argument that players bring to the table when they refer to twinked setups, trade secrets and that sort of thing.

I have played many MMOs in my time, and when it comes to grouping with strangers there are two staples that players generally fall back on: gear and achievements. AO currently lacks either of these in a form that is readily usable for group leaders and while I'm certain that in other games there would likely be ramifications because of that, I don't feel AO has suffered because of it.

I don't know what your suggestion was aimed at accomplishing and I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter. Speaking from personal experience I can say that I've never really had an issue with group content that was caused by an under-geared group member (exceptions being alts of friends, etc, etc). Perhaps knowing that I always have my end-game characters I can swap to if things go south has an impact on this; but it is my concern that if the inspect feature was moved from the target information panel to a more prominent location within the game, that we would see a rise in its use for segregating players when up until this point, I really haven't seen it as a problem.

Just some of my thoughts; I'd be interested in hearing the motive behind your suggestion.

Cheers
-Trony-

[hokutonoken]

or expand it by creating a new item to address this "inspection".....why not take out two "leet" with one stone!? fix the credit with more credit sinks.

introducing a new "account" buyable item 2nd only to the Popular G.R.A.C.E.

it's the new "G.R.I.E.F." --> "Grid Restricted Inspecting Equipment Form" only for a mere "leet" amout of $4.99 ^_=







----------------------------------------------------

[Traderjill]

I don't know what your suggestion was aimed at accomplishing and I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter. Speaking from personal experience I can say that I've never really had an issue with group content that was caused by an under-geared group member (exceptions being alts of friends, etc, etc).

I'm at a point now where I'm afraid to accept an inferno team mission invitation. An inferno easy shouldn't take more than 30min and yet I have been in multiple teams where they've taken close to an hour to complete. I inspect everyone that has inspect open and I almost always run a damage parser (for my own information not to spam team chat) and I can tell you that poor gear is a factor in why some teams take 20min and others take 1hr 15min. It isn't just the damage issue either but people not having any protective gear whatsoever such that they seem to get 2 shotted by anything that breathes on them. This tends to result in the team leader expecting us to stop killing and wait for the person to come back thus sucking up more time. Another observation is that poor gear quite often comes along with not knowing anything whatsoever about the toolset of the toon being played. This would explain why a person gets 2 shotted and doesn't bother to use any defensive tools when they see that they're under attack. It isn't a level issue either as I've been in a team of 200 twinks that rolled through inf easies faster than many teams containing TL7's.

I don't have an issue with newbies but I really can't stand noobs that just don't care. If they don't care to pause a moment and put on some gear then I don't care to carry them through content. I understand gearing in the game is a time sink but it should be a time sink that they experience on their toon not one that is passed on to me because I took the time to put on gear and they did not.

I'm sure someone will say "if your time is so precious why are you paying a MMO?" so let me respond to that in advance. I spend a lot of time playing PC games mainly because my RL responsibilities cause me to have to spend a lot of time at home. Unfortunately that means that my primary form of entertainment for some months now has been my garden, my dog and video games. How I spend that gaming time should be my choice.. and I don't like wasting it on people that couldn't be bothered to care enough about their own toon. I don't mind helping others but it is on my terms, not theirs.

So yeah, I'd like to see remote inspect so that I can review my teammates before the mish gets rolled and opt out if they're all a bunch of gimps. It would also make choosing teammates a bit easier if I am the one with lead. The thing is, once a mish is rolled and all are inside it is a tad too late to just bail on the team and that's why I've ended up enduring some hour long+ missions.. out of some crazy sense of fairplay.

[Doctrony]

You make a number of good points, Jill. It is obvious to me now that I have been somewhat sheltered by the fact I have multiple 220 characters with garden keys, all capable of carrying a group though an Inf mish. Your point that you would prefer to pass on an Inf mish if it meant burning upwards of an hour in the process is a fair one. My primary concern, as I outlined in my previous post, is that the inspect feature might become some form of elitist benchmarking tool, rather than a measurement of minimum effort.

From personal experience, I generally don’t have a lot of options when recruiting for my Inf teams. Likely a combination of a number of factors, least of which is my time zone (GMT+12), I find the number of players interested in Inf missions to be lacking. The result is that I generally don’t have the option or interest in ‘vetting’ my group members, because there simply isn’t anyone else to replace them.

In the situation you described I can’t help but feel as though the issue is merely a symptom of a larger problem; specifically the lack of ‘level appropriate’ content for players ~150 - ~210. I use that term loosely as there are certainly things to do at those levels; but to get the most bang for your buck from Inf mishes you need a 220 puller. The result of this is that the NPCs in the mission are level ~215+. The issue then becomes the discrepancy in throughput and survivability of characters below level 210 and their ability to handle the higher level NPCs.

I concur that a certain level of effort is to be expected from levelling players in regards to their equipment. Although I feel as though the current balance is tilted away from those players who lack the resources common among more veteran players. Imagine an inferno mission with a group of un-twinked, level 200 players; a nightmare. Swap those players for S7 twinks and suddenly you’re likely to have a reasonably proficient group.

My point, if I was to have one, is that the currently available options do not appear to provide sufficient motivation for the players you mentioned to choose a different approach. Some might suggest they run Pen mishes instead, but with what population would they do that, and why would they do that for a lesser reward than they can get from an Inferno mission? Similarly, why should these lesser-geared players invest effort in improving their characters, when their progression through this high level content relies so heavily on the influence of others, especially when that effort might be viewed as ‘wasted’ in a few levels?

Basically thinking out loud at this point and while I agree with the premise underpinning your suggestion, I can’t help but feel that there might be a more beneficial solution to the issue that doesn’t include exposing the inspect feature to further abuse.

/end textwall
-Trony-

[Traderjill]

You make a number of good points, Jill. It is obvious to me now that I have been somewhat sheltered by the fact I have multiple 220 characters with garden keys, all capable of carrying a group though an Inf mish.

I have multiple 220 characters all with garden keys but none of them are going to carry a group through an inferno mission. I guess it is just my playstyle choice.

From personal experience, I generally don’t have a lot of options when recruiting for my Inf teams. Likely a combination of a number of factors, least of which is my time zone (GMT+12), I find the number of players interested in Inf missions to be lacking. The result is that I generally don’t have the option or interest in ‘vetting’ my group members, because there simply isn’t anyone else to replace them.

Interesting. I have enough 220's that I guess I'm not racing to make another. If I pass up doing inf missions a day or whatever, there's no real loss.. not like I don' t have 13 or 14 other's to play. Again, I guess it is just a playstyle choice and/or perspective.

My point, if I was to have one, is that the currently available options do not appear to provide sufficient motivation for the players you mentioned to choose a different approach.

At one point we did not have an inspect option nor was there a social tab. During those days, you could physically look at a player and, at least, see what armor they were wearing. That combined with damage parsers and word of mouth served as sufficient motivation for people to gear their toons.

While I know that this isn't high school, there's something to be said for peer pressure and people valuing having a decent reputation. Maybe its time that we rolled things back 10 years to the days where people took a little pride in their toons and didn't race to 220 on the backs of others.

[whatever]

The only persons that would be afraid of the Inspect option are exploiters if you ask me.
If you are a hardcore twinker nothing to be afraid of since 80% of the population does not have access to the needed items to twink up. Or credits, or time.

The most simple way to fix this is also to give a breath of fresh air to new players who got no choice but to buy credits from chines farmers if they wish to play this game or 220 friends who will help them and give them stuff.

Make lvl 100-150-200-210 Instances where you can go in with a team of 4-5 players (since it is a low population dont make it impossible) Where there are different mobs and bosses who drop NO DROP and UNIQUE implants armor and wepons...

Those items will be less in comparison to one of the same ql. For example a symbiant will give less nano skils hp evades etc then 1 that you farm from PB. But it will give them a chance to move foreword and even participate in latter raids or camp there on PB's to get better items.

Also i suggest those instances should have ways to make players learn about there new tool sets. Since at higher lvl's players will have more experience so teach them there how to use macros. The necessity of when to mezz and when not to mezz how to focus a target etc. So when they are lvl 210 they will know a great deal about there buffs and profession and raid characteristics. Inst-ed of having a 210 power lvl-d noob in medsiut with xp items stacked on him who dies vs a lvl 200 mob because he just sucks and has not idea what his prof does

[whatever]

Also this will make the game more funn and less of a static grind.

I know lots of people who would enjoy this going in a new dungeon/instance with 2-3 friends and little by little advancing and getting there stuff

[Doctrony]

Maybe its time that we rolled things back 10 years to the days where people took a little pride in their toons and didn't race to 220 on the backs of others.

At the end of the day, you're right; and likely the only thing that can determine if the consequences of a change as you describe are good or bad, is the community itself.


Cheers
-Trony-

[Raggy]

I'd take more pride in my levelling toons if it didn't bankrupt my entire account to do so. The price of Symbiants and mid-level gear is ludicrous. Since everyone thinks you're a scrub if you're not wearing 225 CSS, I'll just keep using Miys up until 215 and not give a flying F what anyone thinks, I can probably play my chars better than them anyway.

[whatever]

Why nobody likes the idea i posted about the instances/dungeons? And the way to earn items, including symbs?

[Rahela]

Maybe its time that we rolled things back 10 years to the days where people took a little pride in their toons and didn't race to 220 on the backs of others.

To do that, you're going to have to 1) bring up the population so that it's possible to level normally again and 2) do something about gear/credit acquisition so that normal, leveling characters without 220 mains can afford to keep their characters up to date (and have a reason to do so).

Unfortunately, neither of these things is ever going to happen. Not many people are going to be willing to play the hard way when there is an easier (and much cheaper!) way, and why should they? AO's leveling experience is positively ghastly even the first time through, which is the main reason why so many new players never make it past the TOTW. Ultimately, it is FC who is going to have to fix this, and with AO so close to end of life and the company being so close to insolvency, there is no incentive for them to do anything beyond simple maintenance.

[Dumonde]

Seriously like this change.

I can remember where some players were wearing more then 1 ACDC, there was one MP with 6 ACDC if I recall correct, and no one was able to proof this exploit. Or double equipped profession rings. Or other item-wearing-exploits which I do not know.

Making it possible for all players to inspect everyone else everytime, makes it impossible to exploit hidden. I personally dont think that this change holds big disadvantages, it could improve the fairness in PvP (or better: restore).

You can compare it with World of Warcraft. A bit. There it is just like mentioned above, everyone can inspect everyone else. Under the line, it is not the euqipment - it is the playstyle and skill that counts. It doesnt matter how exotic and / or unique your euqipment is - without skill and a matching playstyle, you wont reach anything. On the other hand, the best and skilled players will never have a problem in showing there euqipment or configuration.

Privacy? Seriously, you are moving a digital character in a digital and anonymous world and trying to say that this inspect function would hurt your.. what? Privacy? I thought only us german would be that petty.

Greetings,
Dumonde

[nat3s]

Looking forward to open inspect. I've always left mine on. Don't see the problem with it.

[Ophiuchus]

Does Inspect stop working while PvP flagged or in PvP combat on test atm? I certainly hope it does, like in other MMOs out there...