You decide, first edition!

[Humlee]

Dailies anyone? It takes approximately 27-31 inferno missions for 219 to 220 ding (assuming 10% XP bonus on you and 12% side bonus). Assuming you have the most awesome team on the planet and do 20 minutes per inferno mission, that's still close to 12 hours of solid missions, less if you have an XP perked crat in team 100% of the time. If you play casual-ish, two hours a day, that's right around 6 days.

If, however, you do dailies, it's 26 total missions. 5 missions per day (3 BS missions, 1 elite, 1 regular), easily less than 2 hours if you do prisoner elite instead of one of the others. That equals 5 days, plus one extra daily - if you fill in with an Arid rift mission, or even a single SL quest or DOJA, that's 5 days max. You can do it in one day, in about 8 hours, if you do all dailies, DOJA, save your Ado/Pen quests, and a couple Arid missions (some of which are repeatable).

The inferno grind is the biggest fallacy that people keep propagating - it no longer exists with the amount of daily/DOJA/quest SK that you can get now, and do in less time played.

I still do a couple a day usually just to fill in the cracks left by dailies, but they are by no means the only or even the best way to level in TL7, efficiency-wise.

And then the reality of research 9 and 10 hit you....

[jorricane]

And then the reality of research 9 and 10 hit you....

20 daily missions for each 9 and 10, or 4 days a pop. Still more efficient than Inferno missions, or 20 inferno missions, again assuming 20 minute ultrafast missions, 7 hours of inferno, vs 4 days at 1.5 to 2hrs per day on daily missions.

Sure, again you can use inferno missions to fill in the cracks if you have time to do them, but in time/reward ratio, dailies still come out ahead, unless you get the absolute IDEAL inferno team.

[Traderjill]

Sure, again you can use inferno missions to fill in the cracks if you have time to do them, but in time/reward ratio, dailies still come out ahead, unless you get the absolute IDEAL inferno team.

Guess it was bound to happen.. I agree with jorricane.

And to add a tip on for those that don't know, unless you had to do it earlier (think some classes might), you can get from 218.5 to 220 just doing the scheol questline. With careful planning you don't even need inferno for research.. just do your ability buffing lines before you ding 220 (which generally isn't a problem unless you totally slack on research) and then once your alphas and gear are on just finish the rest in your leisure with dailies.

[jorricane]

Guess it was bound to happen.. I agree with jorricane.

And to add a tip on for those that don't know, unless you had to do it earlier (think some classes might), you can get from 218.5 to 220 just doing the scheol questline. With careful planning you don't even need inferno for research.. just do your ability buffing lines before you ding 220 (which generally isn't a problem unless you totally slack on research) and then once your alphas and gear are on just finish the rest in your leisure with dailies.

Aww, am I really all that disagreeable?

Good to know about the Scheol lines - I though at some point they said those will only provide SK in the intended range, i.e. 110-150ish, but great to know that they are useful even later.

Edit: The only reason I know any of this is that I got so sick of running Inferno that, in 8 years on my current accounts, I had no 220s until this last month. I couldn't stomach the grind. Now that I can log on, play a few dailies and a couple questlines, it's much less like a grind and more similar to the smoother levelling experiences that I get in other, newer, MMOs. Not identical, or as straightforward, but at least something other than the ridiculous Inferno grind.

[Humlee]

20 daily missions for each 9 and 10, or 4 days a pop. Still more efficient than Inferno missions, or 20 inferno missions, again assuming 20 minute ultrafast missions, 7 hours of inferno, vs 4 days at 1.5 to 2hrs per day on daily missions.

Sure, again you can use inferno missions to fill in the cracks if you have time to do them, but in time/reward ratio, dailies still come out ahead, unless you get the absolute IDEAL inferno team.

I'm totally against mmo progression being held back by 18 hour quest timers.

There should be way less repetitive & varying methods always accessible to progress your toons with. Dailies was a warm welcome by many, but it's by nature anti massively multiplayer, and was never a solution but yet another bandage.

[Traderjill]

Aww, am I really all that disagreeable?

lol, to say you're disagreeable would be rather harsh I tend to find your posts intelligently worded and respectful of others.. I just tend not to agree with what you're saying. But nothing wrong with that.. the world would be boring and little progress would ever be made if everyone thought alike.

Good to know about the Scheol lines - I though at some point they said those will only provide SK in the intended range, i.e. 110-150ish, but great to know that they are useful even later.

Yeah, partially right there. The changes you're describing, thus far, only apply to the garden and sancturary quests.

[Traderjill]

I'm totally against mmo progression being held back by 18 hour quest timers.

There should be way less repetitive & varying methods always accessible to progress your toons with. Dailies was a warm welcome by many, but it's by nature anti massively multiplayer, and was never a solution but yet another bandage.

It's been about 9 months since I dinged my engie 220 but from what I recall there were plenty of opportunities to team even with dailies. There are a lot of hidden gems that people forget about:

1. Ely catacombs questline (and the other xp yielding quests in that zone)
2. Adonis dark ruins solo quest
3. Adonis dark ruins team instance dailies (doja opportunity too)
4. All of the Xan civilization SL questlines have massive rewards up to and including inferno
5. Neretva questline (I know people skip it nowadays but its good xp and a good team venture)
6. SL elite dailies that are pretty much team (or multilog) required (kill lotv, kill 3 cata bosses, kill tnh, kill beast, etc)

If you do these team items in between solo dailies, outdoor mobs, dungeon crawling, sl missions or whatever else.. you'll find that you're leveling faster than you can reasonably keep up.

[jorricane]

lol, to say you're disagreeable would be rather harsh I tend to find your posts intelligently worded and respectful of others.. I just tend not to agree with what you're saying. But nothing wrong with that.. the world would be boring and little progress would ever be made if everyone thought alike.

Glad we agree on that part - and likewise, your posts tend to be reasoned and insightful - and believe it or not, I agree more often than not.

Yeah, partially right there. The changes you're describing, thus far, only apply to the garden and sancturary quests.

Good to know. Hopefully it stays that way, since particularly the Scheol and Ado lines are very difficult to do within the intended range.

Edit: I forgot we are both Chitown natives. That doesn't at all explain our respect for the posts and opinions of others....

[Humlee]

It's been about 9 months since I dinged my engie 220 but from what I recall there were plenty of opportunities to team even with dailies. There are a lot of hidden gems that people forget about:

1. Ely catacombs questline (and the other xp yielding quests in that zone)
2. Adonis dark ruins solo quest
3. Adonis dark ruins team instance dailies (doja opportunity too)
4. All of the Xan civilization SL questlines have massive rewards up to and including inferno
5. Neretva questline (I know people skip it nowadays but its good xp and a good team venture)
6. SL elite dailies that are pretty much team (or multilog) required (kill lotv, kill 3 cata bosses, kill tnh, kill beast, etc)

If you do these team items in between solo dailies, outdoor mobs, dungeon crawling, sl missions or whatever else.. you'll find that you're leveling faster than you can reasonably keep up.

All of the above is still just a mere fragment of the entire grind that is 9 and 10 research, the only real aid to this after eventually running out of one-time quests (Keys, Xan etc) is dailies and inferno missions. Inferno missions are insanely tedious and dailies in essence promote progressing a mmo character alone.

I'm not advocating for easier progression, just more diverse paths. Most of it could be done by re-evaluating the xp/sk reward for alot of already ingame monsters. Outside as inside.

[Traderjill]

All of the above is still just a mere fragment of the entire grind that is 9 and 10 research, the only real aid to this after eventually running out of one-time quests (Keys, Xan etc) is dailies and inferno missions. Inferno missions are insanely tedious and dailies in essence promote progressing a mmo character alone.

I'm not advocating for easier progression, just more diverse paths. Most of it could be done by re-evaluating the xp/sk reward for alot of already ingame monsters. Outside as inside.

I think level 9/10 research caps is the problem there moreso than anything else. I'm not saying I wouldn't love more diverse ways to level but a grind is a grind whether it be inferno missions, dailies, or add 2 or 3 other things to do. The whole LE research concept was poorly thought out imo. They added a new expansion (use that term loosely) with a new leveling grind and no new content to grind it on. I definitely recall having to go back to inferno missions on finished 220 toons when LE came out.

So if you take the level 9/10's out of the picture the leveling process is very fast. All they need to do is greatly increase the level 9/10 caps. LE is dated content, they can open the gate now.

[jorricane]

I think level 9/10 research caps is the problem there moreso than anything else. I'm not saying I wouldn't love more diverse ways to level but a grind is a grind whether it be inferno missions, dailies, or add 2 or 3 other things to do. The whole LE research concept was poorly thought out imo. They added a new expansion (use that term loosely) with a new leveling grind and no new content to grind it on. I definitely recall having to go back to inferno missions on finished 220 toons when LE came out.

So if you take the level 9/10's out of the picture the leveling process is very fast. All they need to do is greatly increase the level 9/10 caps. LE is dated content, they can open the gate now.

Yeah, the LE research system was FC taking a stab at a time gated end game grind, and failing miserably. For an example of how a similar system can be implemented and not suck, look at the rep system in Star Trek Online. Still a time gated grind, but significantly more tolerable.

[Uaintseenme]

Do NOT touch the pathing code!

Dont you think those poor pet prof's have sufferd enough over the years with try after failed try to fix it.

I can count on the fingers of one nose how many times you've told me you'll fix pathing, only to torment me further with pets that run in the opposite direction to mobs, dont run at all or in one semi amusing case, simply fell through the floor when ever you used a /pet behind macro.

Its not that i wouldnt love better pathing, its just...
Well....

Im pretty sure you just cant do it.


As for a new instance, rather than "A new high level encounter for the experienced players", such as the ever so popular DB3 instance, why not make "A new high level encounter that *everyone* can/wants to do" instead?


New shadowlands missions are a pointless exersize unless the xp/sk per hour is better than the current easy mish xp gain.
ofcourse, if it IS better, then no one will ever do a mission again and the "new SL missions" will become the new grind of choice, its no real improvement, its just swapping one grind for another.


What we really need, and i know this might sound odd for a social MMO game, is some more solo content, or at the very least some content designed for less than a full team.
Somethign to fill those hours when lft is dead and you cant find anyone to play with for that all important 8th inf mish of the night, when you've spent all of 25 minutes doing ALL your dailys and you just end up logging out due to no one being around.
We require somethign to encourage us to stay logged in even when we cant find a team for anything.. early morning boredom is the slow killing cancer of player retention, thats what needs fixing IMO.

[Esssch]

Dont you think those poor pet prof's have sufferd enough over the years with try after failed try to fix it.

No. We must suffer more. I see too many people making new MPs. If FC can re-break pets, it'll save others from the pain of being an MP.

[Towerblock]

Re: Pet pathing

I wish I could trust the age old saying "If it aint broke, don't fix it." But every fix breaks it more.
If the new engine doesn't deliver on pet pathing, then what tiny fraction of hope I had left is gone and I will see you lovely bastards in another life.

[jorricane]

Re: Pet pathing

I wish I could trust the age old saying "If it aint broke, don't fix it." But every fix breaks it more.
If the new engine doesn't deliver on pet pathing, then what tiny fraction of hope I had left is gone and I will see you lovely bastards in another life.

I think that since it's a new graphics engine, which is basically all front-end, and pet pathing is all back-end....leave your hope at the door. You...er....lovely bastard you.

[Psikie]

All of the above is still just a mere fragment of the entire grind that is 9 and 10 research, the only real aid to this after eventually running out of one-time quests (Keys, Xan etc) is dailies and inferno missions. Inferno missions are insanely tedious and dailies in essence promote progressing a mmo character alone.

Unfortunately most of us learned after the fact that doing lvl 9-10 research is better to do at 199 BEFORE you ding 200 and start earning sk.

So if you take the level 9/10's out of the picture the leveling process is very fast. All they need to do is greatly increase the level 9/10 caps. LE is dated content, they can open the gate now.

Normally I would disagree with anything that made leveling easier. Especially if you do this research at 199 you can have them done pretty easy banking all the spill over xp in your pool. But I will grudgingly agree the xp-sk conversion for 220 characters is brutal on lvl 9-10 research. Of my 10 toons at lvl 220 only 3 have all 70 research lvls the others all stopped with at least 3 to 5 lines at lvl 9-10.

[Amickson]

What we really need, and i know this might sound odd for a social MMO game, is some more solo content, or at the very least some content designed for less than a full team.
Somethign to fill those hours when lft is dead and you cant find anyone to play with for that all important 8th inf mish of the night, when you've spent all of 25 minutes doing ALL your dailys and you just end up logging out due to no one being around.
We require somethign to encourage us to stay logged in even when we cant find a team for anything.. early morning boredom is the slow killing cancer of player retention, thats what needs fixing IMO.

Pretty much my words too. AO now just lack longevity content, be it solo or multi.

[Towerblock]

I think that since it's a new graphics engine, which is basically all front-end, and pet pathing is all back-end....leave your hope at the door. You...er....lovely bastard you.

I'm not as up on game dev bits as some here. But, isn't there some relation to how the world is built and seeded and how pets path through it? Maybe my information is just outdated, but I understood at one point in time that the reason why pets get all borked and run off is because the old spaghetti environment code pretty much choked everything around it.

Because if the only thing coming at us is just a few pretty lights and wind-on-wavy grass, then I just shudder to think how it took 7-8 years to accomplish this.

[Brampfine]

how about a translated version of AO ?
a French one and a German ? i think it doesent makes more work as fixing petpathing !
Take a look at ur failed try to screw in Borealis at "sat dish" wo looks like a candy box now with broken textur !(joking)

"Never touch a running system"

I like to see NEW stuff and not run from south to north 20 times for a kind of new SL questlines.
show me the SCIFI touch of AO and .......forget it....i lost hope more and more !!!

Boss events we had in past times a few with tasty loot but unattainable for the most if "a kind of community raisin-picker Raid" comes to make more dmg
this stopped after removing loot and let player hide into backyards or grid at this none reward "events" example Alien attacks at Borealis with empty Boss !!!

"Events" with "Lya's Sangi Patch" and "Desert Nomad Armor" only from interrest.

i dont like to see new Instances behind a unused door, this is unimaginative and bored in a open world mmo and hide population the most time.

Towers^^ "Never touch a running system"

Add on in size of SL is what i like to see and i post 120 counts early http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...3&postcount=99

[jorricane]

I'm not as up on game dev bits as some here. But, isn't there some relation to how the world is built and seeded and how pets path through it? Maybe my information is just outdated, but I understood at one point in time that the reason why pets get all borked and run off is because the old spaghetti environment code pretty much choked everything around it.

Because if the only thing coming at us is just a few pretty lights and wind-on-wavy grass, then I just shudder to think how it took 7-8 years to accomplish this.

Some of the invisible walls may be gone, but the engine upgrade is largely a facelift.

Some of it may also have to do with latency between client/server - I regularly play MP/crat and have an babi engi now too, and to be honest, I haven't had a single pet problem since they dropped Savvis as the ISP.