The inspect-change is not that gamechanging tbh. Pre-le people would see your armor and figure out your setup anyway, and it was 24h perk-reset so a setup would be very well known.
The inspect-change is not that gamechanging tbh. Pre-le people would see your armor and figure out your setup anyway, and it was 24h perk-reset so a setup would be very well known.
Disclaimer: My posts should not be read by anyone.
That doesn't even make sense, man!Originally Posted by leetlover
Pre-LE you could only see armor textures because there was no social tab.
Head, arms, hands, legs, chest and feet. Back and shoulders only if the items showed up.
If they wore something like a notucom, then you could only see that and head, hands, and feet.
And you could see their weapons ofc, but you still can see that today without inspect.
You had no idea what ql their armor or weapon was.
You had no idea what they got for symbs, hud, utils, ncu.
That wasn't anything like inspect!
Yeah, perk resets took days, but wtf does that have to do with inspect?
Disable inspect looks more like an agent-feature.
Yeah, but even with notumcom you would see if it was Jathos or AI-armor (legs and gloves) which would suggest the setup you are against.Pre-LE you could only see armor textures because there was no social tab.
Head, arms, hands, legs, chest and feet. Back and shoulders only if the items showed up.
If they wore something like a notucom, then you could only see that and head, hands, and feet.
And you could see their weapons ofc, but you still can see that today without inspect.
But back then symbs/imps was an easy guess, and it wasn't so much for hud, utils and NCU as it became post-le and with xan.
Those who had BOC could do about one QL of symb higher then those without, almost neglieble. Very skipable.
Cause that would make people use months to change setup. Days to swap armor, incase they weren't AI23 (most people back then was ai20 or 23 cause axp was scarce) so a setup (which would be easy to figure out) would be pretty much known amongst your own side and the oposite.Yeah, perk resets took days, but wtf does that have to do with inspect?
IE:
The tactical advantage of concealing setups was introduced with social patch and short perk-resets.
Last edited by leetlover; Mar 13th, 2014 at 11:53:08.
Disclaimer: My posts should not be read by anyone.
[QUOTE=Nusquam;
- Grid armor will be opened up to the Shadowlands and will require Break& Entry instead of Mat. Crea.
Why?
After 13 years... Are there not other GA fixers upset about this proposed change?
Sorlain
I am, wished it could be B&E or MC. That you can choose. R-click to change item or something.
Disclaimer: My posts should not be read by anyone.
Yeah, the game was simpler before LE, I get that.
If funcom would remove the social tab, I'd be sad but I wouldn't be as upset as I'm now about this mandatory inspect.
Huge difference to GUESS what someone might have vs. to KNOW for sure what someone has!
If they did remove the social tab function it would be a death blow to ao. Every modern MMO has this feature and almost every player uses it. Even FF14 will have it soon as its demanded and expected. Removing it should never ever be any option even in joke. Inspect changes need to happen while I don't agree with the reason they are doing it change needs to happen.Yeah, the game was simpler before LE, I get that.
If funcom would remove the social tab, I'd be sad but I wouldn't be as upset as I'm now about this mandatory inspect.
Huge difference to GUESS what someone might have vs. to KNOW for sure what someone has!
Yes, I don't want to see the social tab removed either, on that part we agree.
But would you like to share WHY inspect changes need to happen?
This is what mandatory inspect does in every MMO who has it:
1) Will allow people to simply copy other people's setups, without doing research or calculations.
2) Will allow for easy, certain kills in PVP (aka grieving)
3) Will be used as a gear check in PVE to kick others from teams, justified or not.
4) Will be used to harass others for their gimpy setups
5) Will satisfy the curiosity of nosey kids (or adults who have never grown up)
It won't be used to help newbies.
It won't be used to catch cheaters.
(I'm not going to talk about that ludicrous idea anymore even if it is in the patch notes because our moderator doesn't like that)
But ok, AO gives up a piece of what makes it unique to be more like WoW, SWTOR, etc.
To accomplish what exactly?
So we all can become dumb, lazy, nosey thugs?
If that's desirable, somebody please tell me why!
I have nothing to hide, but I value my privacy!
I'm not on facebook, twitter or any other social media.
I will never reveal my in-game characters or organizations on a public forum.
If that upsets all the virtual exhibitionists, so be it!
[QUOTE=Sorlain;6172138]Its likely something to do with the GAIV + CSS thing some fixers use, thats what this whole patch is about.. just a guess. :P
Last edited by Anarrina; Mar 13th, 2014 at 23:35:20.
There are several reasons why people are getting upset, but for me the biggest is that for the last couple years now fc has engaged in a pattern of "fixes" that do not fix the stated problem. 18.5 was a total capitulation to make it easier to get flagged, supposedly to make it so outside healers would be attackable. Yet, I was told by fc that "using outside healers that same side as the towers being attacked to heal the attackers was good tactics." Unless they are flagged, they cannot be attacked until the field goes to 5% and they are careful to avoid that scenario. So the new 5 minute flags did not fix the problem. In fact in many ways it is worse as it is ncredibly easy to get passerbys and bystanders flagged so they can be attacked. Worse, is that fc seems to have abandoned any pretense of impartiality. So there is currently a lot of distrust about motivation and competency as the trend continues with several comments in the monthly notes. Also, based on forum posts, there are several people who claim that they have the either inside influence or an inside track to get changes they want implemented. It isn't clear that such influence is real, but the claims have been made and not refuted by any fc person or forum moderator. Quite predictability people are getting upset with the current processes and questionable decisions. Hope this answers your questions.
Last edited by Anna; Mar 13th, 2014 at 21:20:54.
+1.. At this time I think the faith in the developers and the people working on Anarchyonline, volunteer or paid is dwindling and has reached a low point.
First in PVP you should ALWAYS assume the person you are fighting is in a MAX setup with alphas symbs, Xan Weapon, ai 30 for perks, and db nanos.Yeah, the game was simpler before LE, I get that.
Huge difference to GUESS what someone might have vs. to KNOW for sure what someone has!
Honestly, I can understand these sentiments. But overall I have to disagree.
Knowing that someone has all alphas symbs does not allow you to copy and paste without calculating/research.
Certainly does not allow for easy certain pvp kills, if you were already easy to kill me knowing you are 220 in ql 100 imps isn't going to change that.
By the time you are in team, it's kinda late to be kicking once you have mission pulled.
Curiosity never bothered me if anyone asked I always opened my setup to inspect even to strangers.
In fact without shame I can say I don't have any alpha symbs equiped, all betas but no alphas. It's not worth the extra effort to me (swapping/making ql250+ implants, having a TT doc on standy, rearranging buff gear etc etc) for a few pts difference. I'm just not that into it.
Now all that aside I can say inspect being open all the time will make me feel like someone is taking upskirt pics of me lol. But I can live with it if it will eliminate exploits. I have to think that the amount of exploits was trully rampant to see this kind of change in game. I'm not much into tower pvp so honestly it's not something that has really affected me personally.
~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~
*Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*
http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/
My Story
Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala
Everyday I'm Shuffling.
Sad...I don't even have 25 people I'd consider friends :/
*inserts comment about Nanomage MPs*
And I wouldn't call them friends.. just saying there's about 25 people that I on/off play AO with that tend to fall into the same category in terms of forgetting to cancel their subscription when they're not playing.
1 and 2: This whole conversation about PvP and gear being exposed reminds me of a Fight Club quote "You are not your ******* khaki’s"... mainly because from my vantage point when you have two evenly matched players, gearwise, the deciding factor is how well they play their toon. If they can see your gear and try to devise a strategy then you can see theirs and do the same.. so seems like that should cancel things out for the elite PvPers. And I'd think that elite PvPers that can look at your gear and spoil whatever surprise you have for them will only be caught up once because those same type of players will be able to figure out what you have after fighting you once or twice.
3: I really want to use the open inspect as a gear check and I feel like other people should want it as well. People claiming AO is currently elitist have no idea how things used to be. There's no way that people would get carried through content 7+ years ago the way they are now. I remember running DD when I was leveling my engie last year and noted that one guy was doing almost no damage and he actually flipped out on me for running DD and commenting on his lack of performance. That's the state of the game now.. where taking pride in your toon and expecting others to at least try is considered elitism.. its laughable. So yeah, maybe its time to open inspect and have some people kicked because they're wearing totally crap gear. People keep referring to the WoW mentality but in WoW PUG teams (like dungeons for leveling and such) people are afraid of getting kicked because they know if they totally suck no one will hesitate to remove them from group. AO used to be that way.. there was no inspect but your reputation followed you pretty fast. When there were only 5 or so spots in inferno leveling you can believe that the guy wearing bad gear wasn't getting invites to teams.
4: I sometimes feel that word harass is used out of term. Are people really running into that many players in game that are repeatedly making rude comments about their gear? I am easily annoyed by things and yet my inspect has always been open on every character I've owned and I've yet to experience the so-called harassment over my setup. I've gotten inspected a lot ingame and I can count, on one hand, the number of times someone has said something derogatory to me about my gear.
5: I inspect every single person I come across. Its a video game folks, I don't think this is the place you want to pull out the 'you haven't grown up card' because well.. its a video game? When I inspect people usually one of 3 things happen. 1. I look a their setup and file it away in my mental Rolodex for the time where they're LFT and I'm LFM. 2. I use it to be social and as a starting point to have an intelligent discussion with someone that plays a profession I care about. Something like "hey, I noticed you're wearing X. I was thinking about doing that at one point but ended up going with a cookiecutter Y setup.. how do you like it? or 3. To identify and help out newbies. Quite often I'll strike up a convo with them, ask if they're new, say "Hey, I've got a 220 X profession, mind if I give you a couple suggestions?" or I flat out offer them up gear that I know I'll never use that's taking up the space of one of my 3 accounts worth of froob bank mules. Again, never gotten any negative feedback from doing any of what I described.
Last edited by Traderjill; Mar 14th, 2014 at 00:21:48.
it was not. quite the opposite. and also better.
Thats brings back memories of lush pipe... You rep followed you to either getting picked as a priority for teams, not because of prof but because of the player.
Those were the good old days of getting lifebleeders spawned on top of you, ESPECIALLY if you were about to ding!!!
~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~
*Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*
http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/
My Story
Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala
Everyday I'm Shuffling.
I'm paid and I don't even have Windows installed on any computer in my house at the moment.
SmokeX 210/23 Neutral Opifex MA General of Spirit Walkers
SmokeKillsU 81/3 Neutral Opifex Agent
UraniumX 101/2 Neutral Nanomage NT
BruteForceX 61 Neutral Opifex Fixer
SmokingGunsX 43/2 Neutral Solitus Soldier
SixOfNynex 42/2 Neutral Nanomage Engineer
Jiroieyoshi 12/2 Neutral Atrox Enforcer
EMHMarkX 32/2 Neutral Nanomage Doctor
To make my reply manageable, I had to cut some of your quotes, sorry about that.
With mandatory inspect, "evenly matched" PVP will decline, getting sure-fire ganks will increase.
The vast majority has no interest in fair fights or a match of skills and wits.
That's how it works everywhere else, and I have done it myself in MMOs with mandatory inspect.
Why would it be different in AO?
I have kicked people from teams for afking, looting 2 rooms away while the team was fighting, and just for being jerks. While I never put them on ignore, I have written down their names and told my orgs about them. And yes, occasionally I have kicked the guy in the medsuit who wasn't doing any damage. So I know what you are talking about.
But reputation in AO was built on skill and attitude first and gear second.
With mandatory inspect, it will be the exact opposite.
Gear first - and if you don't pass that very subjective and vague gear check, your attitude and skill will NEVER matter at all.
Hence your ENTIRE reputation is based on your gear, nothing else.
Again, that's how it works everywhere else.
Again, I myself have used mandatory inspect exactly that way.
If someone didn't pass my personal gear standard, they got kicked and never had a chance to show that they had a good attitude and fine skills.
So if you get tells or open channel comments by people saying how gimp you are, that's not harassment?
What would you call it? Being social? Flirting?
In other games, derogatory remarks about your gear and setup are an almost daily routine.
Btw, this is the only game I've ever played where I have ZERO people on my ignore list.
I would like to keep it that way.
Ok, so you are nosey, but to your credit, you admit to it.
And you use it for positive things, like being social and helping newbies - I like that.
But you realize that you are a small minority, do you?
In MMOs that have mandatory inspect, nobody (outside of guilds) bothers to help a newbie correct gear mistakes with inspect.
It's just not used for that.
Last but not least, just because you are curious, does not mean I have endure your voyeurism!
I have nothing to hide, but I value my privacy!
I'm not on facebook, twitter or any other social media.
I will never reveal my in-game characters or organizations on a public forum.
If that upsets all the virtual exhibitionists, so be it!
If all inspections are allowed, self conscious players will make an effort to gear appropriately (good)
If all inspections are allowed, players who don't give a damn about their equip will become known (good)
If all inspections are allowed, medsuit players on follow on their 220 DPSers won't care (good)
If all inspections are allowed, people who don't take pride in their toon, and don't want people to know they don't... will suffer? (good)
I don't see any downsides here.
For 220s, the "gear check" will be how far your toon is off the endgame setup.
That's how it works everywhere else.
Now explain one thing to me:
In today's game economy, how exactly is that self conscious player going to get that 300 CC without going to the gold sellers?
(and don't say farm pearls or I'm really going to laugh)
Ah, and nobody would ever use inspect in PVP to kill the weakest geared and avoid the best geared, am I right? So yes, no downsides...
I have nothing to hide, but I value my privacy!
I'm not on facebook, twitter or any other social media.
I will never reveal my in-game characters or organizations on a public forum.
If that upsets all the virtual exhibitionists, so be it!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote