Meeping

[Gatester]

I'm just used to games actually punishing people for quitting or running from a fight. Notum Wars are not really appropriate for a small population anyways, which really throws things off and is definately true in lower level PVP.

Easier to destroy, shorter open times, less frequent open times, limits on participant levels, defenders being able to warp to sites under attack (to accommodate being easier to destroy), and possibly instancing the fights themselves (there are ways to do this without taking away the tower sites themselves). Current NW mechanics encourage harassment and escape tactics as opposed to actually fighting the war.

[RedWatr]

it would be cool to see a diminishing return on +dmg for each meep when in combat with human player, or tower, over an hours time span, you meep 5 times, you end up with -2000 dmg, or whatever, there's always solutions, this one sounds fun to me, but unpossibru

[McKnuckleSamwich]

lots of interesting ideas here.

I'm pretty sure the biggest problem with meeping is that fixers are so strong already, so resistant to dieing in a random/PVP encounter, and have higher than average (all?) firepower that to ADD meep on top of that just screams stupid.

It would be one thing if fixers toolset REVOLVED around access and transportation, and offered significant team bonuses at the expense of being extremely limited offensively... but realistically, fixers spam damage, with more specials than any other class with ease, meaning their takedown capability exceeds most, obviously, pairing high offense high defence AND insta transport results in some very frustrated players.

Imo, meeping should put a fixer and his team into rez state for the same period as death does - but doesn't cancel buffs.

That's probably the easiest fix. The obvious result is that you only gain time by rezzing in grid and no need to rebuff, instead of having to transport yourself to where the team is.

[Leetlover]

For example, I think it's really stupid when I see a fixer run up to someone in borealis (Because it's not very hard to see who's in Borealis/who will try what if you flag), attempt to alpha/maybe succeed, maybe fail, and then just immediately gridwarp. I think it's extremely lame if it's used with 2+ people alphaing and gridwarping someone, or even worse if the person gridwarping isn't even flagging.

Welcome to AO-pvp imo. We're in a war, not a sport-competition.

You can go to the battlestation or to the duelroom if you dislike it. No offense.

AO is a virtual world that evolves around the political conflict between omni-tek (oppressors) and the clan (terrorists)...realism is not nessesarily pretty or sporty. People that does this partiqular type of pvp has always used 'unfair' tactics. 2vs1, hugging BY's or 100% (ft-pvp) for example so they can evac.

What I think matters is that towers gets destroyed. That the opposing side gets vandalised and striked down upon.

[Leetlover]

Not that a longer cooldown would be such a bad idea!

Off topic;
The Craig-team wanted to give more team-pvp (imo co-op is more fun) so uber teambuffs was introduced to the game. It didn't work at it's intended purpose, it failed. People play solo and co-op with their side instead. Multiboxing (or muling) wouldn't be such so bad hadn't it been for those uber auras and teambufs.

TLDR:
Nerf teambuffs to mitigrate the power of multiboxing.

can you enlighten me what meeping was used for other than escaping in the old days?

meep team after killing boss in rk-mission?

It offers no realistic counters, and tools without counters or penalties while also being effective should not exist.

It is a evac nano...the meeper can be debuffed, stunned or killed...

[Gatester]

It is a evac nano...the meeper can be debuffed, stunned or killed...

When was this patch that gave me 60m range that allows me to stun, debuff, and kill a fixer before he meeps? Or are you referring to a change that allows you to force a fixer to flag before he attempts to use his full alpha and then meep 2 seconds afterward, while he then waits 5 minutes in grid for his flag to wear off and he simply tries again?

There is a lot of talk about these perfect strategies that everyone should be using yet never seem to be actually happening, which means everyone in AO is either a complete noob with no talent for PVP or it's a bunch of paper PVP strategies that anyone with actual experience knows hardly ever works. NSD is easily countered and it's not like fixers are lacking in the debuff removal department. Stuns are even easier to counter, and of the stuns that actually work you can simply FM stim out of it and meep before anything can realistically kill you other than an NT which should only be close to you in borealis.

I've used the meep gank tactics myself, you have to be an idiot or completely unlucky to fail at it (those pesky MP's in conceal waiting for you to hit Q and spamming their NSD buttons. Nerf MP). I have been fortunate to never have an MP in conceal waiting to NSD me, so I have never failed to meep after a gank attempt, which means, as far as I am concerned, there is no realistic counter to meeping other than IQ.

[solcv2]

sir, i suggest you wait past your first birthday before talking about how things used to be.

also may explain

Just because this account is young. doesnt mean I am. The people who know me know when I started to play, and it was before most people on here I bet.

Im not getting into a flame war here - im merely putting across a point of view.

reading nametags is very much doable, but - a fixer meeps (TL7 with nr 3k runspeed). By the time you react, grid yourself (im assuming you are also a fixer with instant grid here, if not, your even more screwed), then actually zone into the grid - you are looking at 3-4 seconds delay. In this 3-4 seconds, the fixer can be anywhere in the grid. This was what I was meaning.

Mark

and red: I used the word sentance on purpose, as there isn't a single sentance that makes any gramatical sense in your post. Thus, there is also not a single paragraph that makes gramatical sense either. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[RedWatr]

...
and red: I used the word sentance on purpose, as there isn't a single sentance that makes any gramatical sense in your post. Thus, there is also not a single paragraph that makes gramatical sense either. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

sentence*

sentence*

grammatical*

grammatical*

you are the bacon with my pancakes <3

OT: after some harsh RL drama last night, I found myself thinking about this situation while trying to find some peace (ikr) the solution does seem simple, no team meep when in player combat, leave everything else as it is (solo meep). I tried to look for a rational reason to have it available at any point in the games history that I remember (from late 04') and other than a novelty annoyance there just is none.

just for the hell of it, let's assume that Anarchy Online really meant to imply "ANARCHY!!!" this tool would be awwwesome, but only if the same effort were made to provide a similarly effective "piss off" tool to every profession.

[solcv2]

sentence*

OT: after some harsh RL drama last night, I found myself thinking about this situation while trying to find some peace (ikr) the solution does seem simple, no team meep when in player combat, leave everything else as it is (solo meep). I tried to look for a rational reason to have it available at any point in the games history that I remember (from late 04') and other than a novelty annoyance there just is none.

just for the hell of it, let's assume that Anarchy Online really meant to imply "ANARCHY!!!" this tool would be awwwesome, but only if the same effort were made to provide a similarly effective "piss off" tool to every profession.

How about disabling team meep if in combat with players. This then wouldnt effect the PVM useability of it.

[Spead]

How about disabling team meep if in combat with players. This then wouldnt effect the PVM useability of it.

People are complaining about the griefers meeping asoon as they see blue/orange dots on the map, so they wouldnt be in combat with players

[Pafpuf]

People are complaining about the griefers meeping asoon as they see blue/orange dots on the map, so they wouldnt be in combat with players

Yay a use for concealment ?

[wonderland]

Yay a use for fixer's (or his in-team adventurer's) stupid high perception especially with impoved stare ?

[Spead]

Yay a use for concealment ?

Most shades can't hide from a fixer even if he doesn't have any kind of adv perception. And if the shade does sneak up, he's then got to kill the fixer within 4 seconds max else the fix has survived... Lets hope he doesn't have any def aura or blockers from his team mates, and he's under 15k Hp. Unlikely, but sure possible. If the shade sneaks all the way through the tower site then he deserves the kill tbh.

I guess the defenders could get an agent to sneak buffed right up, have the Zerg waiting out the way(but not so far that the agent will die), the agent opens attack on the team, Zerg comes in and try's to kill the team. Alot of coordination, but In theory it would work!

[Leetlover]

I have been fortunate to never have an MP in conceal waiting to NSD me, so I have never failed to meep after a gank attempt, which means, as far as I am concerned, there is no realistic counter to meeping other than IQ.

Meeping can and is messed up by players by more means than NSD. The point was that they are gone tho. They meeped. What is the problem? You didn't get to remove them from the area by killing them so you are disapointed? wtb more combat?

[Contra]

No shade can hide from an advy/fixer with max perception, no matter what the shade does/wears. And this is a HUGE disadvantage for shades, because you can't cycle your defensive perks while in sneak, allowing the fixer and/or advy to totally destroy the sneaking shade.
Shades need a hell of alot better concealment buff to be turned into an actual sneak profession. Right now, any profession that maxed perception can see any endgame shade in sneak just because of 1 buff.

[Gatester]

Meeping can and is messed up by players by more means than NSD. The point was that they are gone tho. They meeped. What is the problem? You didn't get to remove them from the area by killing them so you are disapointed? wtb more combat?

If you don't see the problem in allowing players to kill you without risk and not being able to kill them unless they are morons then you have no sense of fair and balanced PVP. The ENTIRE POINT of PVP is that players are fighting each other, not players are getting shot at by someone who disappears before you can even react. It hits a whole new level of fail when we extend this to entire teams or raids evacuating together.

PVP is a sport, a competition between players to test skills, tactics, and builds. Imagine if sports in real-life had allowed players to walk onto the field, take a shot at the goal, miss it, and simply leave the game to try again in a few minutes without the other team ever taking a shot themselves. Can you not see how stupid this is?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

If you don't see the problem in allowing players to kill you without risk and not being able to kill them unless they are morons then you have no sense of fair and balanced PVP. The ENTIRE POINT of PVP is that players are fighting each other, not players are getting shot at by someone who disappears before you can even react. It hits a whole new level of fail when we extend this to entire teams or raids evacuating together.

PVP is a sport, a competition between players to test skills, tactics, and builds. Imagine if sports in real-life had allowed players to walk onto the field, take a shot at the goal, miss it, and simply leave the game to try again in a few minutes without the other team ever taking a shot themselves. Can you not see how stupid this is?

hear hear!

[Leetlover]

If you don't see the problem in allowing players to kill you without risk

Orbital strikes...the fixer isn't killing anyone without risk tho. Enforcing a meep is also a kind of win. Sort of...

The ENTIRE POINT of PVP is that players are fighting each other, not players are getting shot at by someone who disappears before you can even react.

Towerwars is not duels.

With BY's you can do the same btw. Or with a stunalpha.

It hits a whole new level of fail when we extend this to entire teams or raids evacuating together.

The are removed from the area due to your presence. If they are outnumbered...

PVP is a sport, a competition between players to test skills, tactics, and builds.

We are discussing towerwars, not duels.

When you define pvp vs a sport you should speak for yourself imo. Rubi-ka is a virtual world that evolves around the political conflict between omni-tek and the clans.

When someone attacks a site, the world is in a war. Not a sport-competition.

I think what matters is that some towers gets destroyed. Call it terrorism or vandalism. Maybe it's fun.

Imagine if sports in real-life had allowed players to walk onto the field, take a shot at the goal, miss it, and simply leave the game to try again in a few minutes without the other team ever taking a shot themselves. Can you not see how stupid this is?

yeah, that would be lol. hahaha...

We are in a war tho. People are being killed on the streets 3 vs 1. Welcome 2 AO.

PS
Shame there isn't so many real battles.

[Leetlover]

Semi-offtopic: most AO-pvp is traditionally about killing people before they can evac.

Whompawars
FT-pvp
BY-hugging pvp
Run to the lift/your side-pvp

Before you could /duel, duels was (for example) defined by not running out of FT when losing a 1on1 fight.

[Gatester]

Leetlover you need a serious reality check. You talk about AO PVP as if it is some chaotic, no-rules, no-restrictions PVP fest that should allow anything to happen regardless of what should be fair and balanced.

Reality check, AO is a video game, it falls under entertainment, it involves people playing together not actually being involved in real strife and conflict. Only certain areas and certain situations allow for PVP, and people seek out these situations to engage in the "fun" of fighting other players. Your notions of PVP are completely bizarre in this thread and others, the things you use to compare are not even close, and when you do get close you end up comparing to things no one wants.


Let's try a list so you can quote the whole thing instead of breaking it into little random excerpts.


1) AO is not a 0% suppression gas in all areas PVP game. Until it is, AO is bound by rules and restrictions and PVP is situational and therefore requires active participation rather than being forced upon players. Your assertion that AO is wild and chaotic is nonsense because you cannot force players to flag and fight. The title of the game is not a point of argument for debates.

Example: Tower sites are on a set timer, not permanently active. They are also active when a player attacks a site. Are these not "rules" which all factions must follow, almost as if there are limitations and restrictions on participation rather than a free-for-all fight.

2) Forcing players to flag via their AOE abilities in PVE content and then proceeding to kill them is bannable. Again, this goes against your notion of "anything goes in war" with PVP. There are rules, there are things you can and cannot do.

3) Comparing meeping to backyard hopping is like comparing domestic violence to aggravated assault. No one wants backyard hopping and PVPers have argued against this forever. Your argument that backyard hopping is the same as meeping is no different than you admitting that meeping is unwanted and detrimental to PVP.

4) All PVP is a competition between players, not just duels. This is common sense that apparently is not common enough for everyone. Players establish their own rules for every fight and they choose to follow these on their own. When things get out of hand and beyond player control, however, actual developmental changes have to take place.

Examples: You can no longer heal flagged players without being flagged yourself. You can no longer buff flagged players without being flagged yourself.

If PVP was, as you say, not a competition but a war, then why were those last two changes made? To answer the question before you make something random up, it was because people participating in PVP without risk was considered unfair.

5) Meeping is the ONLY evac tool. Calling whompah hopping or BY hopping an evac is a clear sign that you do not know the difference. The whompah and BY hopping can be countered as the act of running to the backyard itself is not instant and there are tools to prevent players from reaching these locations. There are also no whompahs or backyards inside tower sites...

6) Meeping during a fight is not an issue, meeping before players can fight back is. Just as players who use conceal to get a surprise attack are not complained about, the same applies to fixers who meep while actively engaged in a fight. What people do not want to see anymore is fixers disappearing after using an alpha which can potentially kill a player.


And because I do not want to see you using the term "war" to define conflicts without rules or regulations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...m/Rules+of+War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

Feel free to actually learn more about these things on your own, but these links and the links within them should help you evolve from someone who randomly uses words incorrectly to someone who is more educated on a subject matter. Basic rules exist during all conflicts, in the worst cases a terrorist group will ignore those rules. At an extreme stretch of terms you might qualify Clan as terrorists, but neutrals and Omni-Tek as well? These forces are fighting over territory and follow certain rules of conduct in places such as Borealis. I think you simply have a problem of lack of understanding of terms you use and an oddly strict coherence to things based on nothing more than the titles of things which were established by people who focused on marketing and not accuracy.