A Plea to Vets: Don't discourage new players

[wonderland]

AO has one of the most intelligent playerbases I've encountered

reported for trolling

I think its been 3 years actually, as I recall that change happened before instanced pande when it became a problem of people repeatedly flagging entire raids with intention of disrupting them so that they could OD them later. It may not have been an "official" change then, but I recall a few people being banned for such behavior at that time.

My memory may be failing me, I recall it being around 2009 or 2010 that I've seen people banned for intentional flagging.

I could very well be wrong, though. I just recall it always existing. I'm guessing I'm wrong.

[Unkfix]

Could the two of you stop the personal sniping, please.

Wall of text.

That's totally what she meant by stopping

[Unkfix]

reported for trolling



My memory may be failing me, I recall it being around 2009 or 2010 that I've seen people banned for intentional flagging.

I could very well be wrong, though. I just recall it always existing. I'm guessing I'm wrong.

You are right, that did happen around 2009, as I said in a previous post.

[Traderjill]

That's totally what she meant by stopping

I wasn't personally attacking him, I was responding to what I thought were some legitimate concerns. And the start of my post was an apology.. not sure how else I could've tried to make peace besides that.

If my 'wall of text' as you classified it, was personal attacking/sniping then so is pretty much every post on the forums that responds to something someone else has said.

If there's anything in that post (or any post I make) that is personally insulting someone or attacking them then I hope it will simply be removed as that is pretty much never the intent of me posting on the forums.

[Esssch]

Our little back and forth started when Anarrina made a statement that you decided to make fun of by commenting on its literal meaning. The result was me eventually doing the same with your Burger King comment. I shouldn't resorted to those tactics as I don't agree with them. My apologies.

Not necessarily make fun of, but point out that it could be taken differently. With most representatives of companies, but doubly so with FC, you've got to be absolutely sure about what they're saying.

2. I'm sorry that's how you read my original post as that was not at all the intention. Let me restate and/or clarify a few things. I did suggest other options but the people were so frustrated by the behavior that, rather than move to another spot and risk the same type of behavior they decided to just call it for the day. As mentioned in my original post, there were OST teams in both directions from where we were and while I know of the areas mentioned, they just weren't interested in going. I can understand how, as a new player, it could just seem like an epidemic and they just give up for the day. That's the issue I was trying to point out. It isn't about outside tank teams or kiting but about how new players perceive this game community. This forum is filled with people complaining about power leveled noobs, folks missing nanos, not having the skill or taking the time to learn to play their class and so on. The thing is, when people do try to learn and play the game they run into situations such as the one I described. It is no wonder they just join the Romans and sit afk in a kite team for levels.

3. I wasn't whining about being trained or anything else. I'm sure, at some point, I whine about something that annoys me but its pretty rare that I do it in written form. I've played AO since 2004.. please do not think that the team I described was the first time I've been trained. I've had more kite hill drama, trains and other nonsense in-game than I could even possibly recall. Prior to this past week's incident, I don't think I'd petitioned an ely heck situation since 2006. Many people have thrown out rule breaking suggestions on how to handle the issue but again, the problem wasn't that I didn't know how to handle the problem or that I didn't know where else to go. Historically if someone would've done that to me, I just would've logged a couple toons and gone hunting for monster parts and perennium bolts in their area. A 220 can kill any spawn of hecks faster than any team or NT really. It wasn't, however, about me at all. I post on the forums but I'm not going to post about being trained in one leveling session unless I perceive it to be an issue that affects more than me. I"m hearing lots of players complaining about this and truth be told my original post was really about the way newer players perceive this type of behavior and a plea to vets to discourage it (themselves and in their org). The situation that happened at sunken house was just an example for talking purposes.. the real point of my original post got buried in the discussion of 'is it harassment?' 'can we petition it?' 'do petitions work?' debates.

5. People that make comments like yours "If they can't handle dying {insert being trained multiple times as that's what happened}, AO isn't for them" Are part of the attitude I was trying to address. I, for one, would like more players/people to play with and think that rather than have the old jaded "if you can't handle being harassed then you're in the wrong game" attitude we should all publicly condemn this type of behavior (training and such) instead of blaming the victim for not being tough-skinned enough.

I am blaming the "victims" though. Sure, training in this instance was uncalled for, but training itself is a part of AO that will likely never go away. Train to zone used to be a common tactic for when you got overwhelmed. ToTW is famous for it's trains. If these people gave up after dying twice, there's no way they'll stick with the game. I've died so many times from trains in places like ToTW or an NT's kite, but I rezzed and went back.

I wasn't personally attacking him, I was responding to what I thought were some legitimate concerns. And the start of my post was an apology.. not sure how else I could've tried to make peace besides that.

If my 'wall of text' as you classified it, was personal attacking/sniping then so is pretty much every post on the forums that responds to something someone else has said.

If there's anything in that post (or any post I make) that is personally insulting someone or attacking them then I hope it will simply be removed as that is pretty much never the intent of me posting on the forums.

Agreed, though I've seen a lot of times where Ana will say "stop with the personal attacks" and we will, then we find out that what she really meant was "stop posting" and we were expected to read her mind. Time will tell which kind of situation this is.

[Anarrina]

I would say that usually happens because I have a lower threshold for what constitutes personal attacks than you, Esssch. I'm kinda short, and my three story ladder is broken.

[Iriche]

Intentional forced flagging and kite disruption are, in fact, petitionable.

What if you use a Alien Probe on someone then? That items function is to flag someone

[MachSchau]

Hi, you want less drama. bump my thread http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=606537

Then you win the game!

[wonderland]

You are right, that did happen around 2009, as I said in a previous post.

I mean like, 3 years ago is 2010. Just being technical.

So I was thinking 2009 is extending it another year.

(PS, DRAGON!)

[Esssch]

I would say that usually happens because I have a lower threshold for what constitutes personal attacks than you, Esssch. I'm kinda short, and my three story ladder is broken.

I'm a denizen of the internet, personal attacks are like our high fives here. Also 12 years of AO, thick skin, etc etc.

[aramsunat]

Our little back and forth started when Anarrina made a statement...

Anarrina reported for trolling.

This thread has potential.

[lunarsolace]

I would say this, for this game to get on steam, and get hordes of new players....
They have to change how players level from 70-170. There are a limited number of rocks to break.

I don't know which way would be better, making teaming ranges more contingent upon 200+ and sub 200 might work(wider ranges within 'tiers' like 1-50, 50-99, 100-150, 150-200, and 200+ *not talking pvp ranges*). Make something viable in those silly transportation bits between ely and inferno. Maybe triple xp for playfield specific instances in every pf along the way, including more rk ones in addition to sl

I know this is an undead horse that has been beaten to the point that it should resemble ground-up hamburger meat at McD's. It must live on.

[patrick187]

I would say this, for this game to get on steam, and get hordes of new players....
They have to change how players level from 70-170. There are a limited number of rocks to break.

Everyone goes to rock breaking and Inf missions because the mechanics of the game make those the fastest ways to scale the level cliff. What would "fix" this is to provide INSTANCED opportunities that can be teamed or solo'd and are comparable, although slightly less efficient, than a pocket hecklering crew.

Daily missions were a good start, but you are limited to once per day. A pocket heckler crew can crank many levels per hour without stopping. Easy change - allow people to run more than one daily mission per type per day...sort of like...I don't know...Inferno missions? Bump the exp rewards for RK missions and scale like the AI missions?

Lots of ways to make it so hecklering with a pocket is not the only good way to move the exp bar quickly. Heck, add some risk and make the missions even more rewarding exp-wise than pocket hecklering, since the latter involves no risk besides griefing.

AO is a massive game for play area, and the majority of the playerbase sees maybe 10% in their leveling career because the mechanics forced everyone through a similar tunnel. That's kinda silly, imho, and a huge barrier (besides the obvious netcode and graphic thing) to people wanting to sign up and stay that way.

Per the OP though, griefing should be returned in kind. AO is a might makes right game. Lots of ways to skin that particular cat without breaking rules. Just sayin'

[lunarsolace]

Lots of ways to make it so hecklering with a pocket is not the only good way to move the exp bar quickly. Heck, add some risk and make the missions even more rewarding exp-wise than pocket hecklering, since the latter involves no risk besides griefing.

AO is a massive game for play area, and the majority of the playerbase sees maybe 10% in their leveling career because the mechanics forced everyone through a similar tunnel. That's kinda silly, imho, and a huge barrier (besides the obvious netcode and graphic thing) to people wanting to sign up and stay that way.

that's just it, you're thinking in terms of population 'now.' I'm alluding to a possible future with too many players for pocketing to be efficient or viable. It really is a fail mechanic for new players to rely on tl7's to level. (Some of us remember Ely before OST, in the true kiting era, and when players killed hecks in teams ) Any good Game Developer should get angry and motivated when a high percentage of players don't use a professions toolset until near end-game and sits and/or /follow to level. Nobody can say the current lvl grind from 1-205ish is fun or engaging.

[patrick187]

that's just it, you're thinking in terms of population 'now.' I'm alluding to a possible future with too many players for pocketing to be efficient or viable. It really is a fail mechanic for new players to rely on tl7's to level. (Some of us remember Ely before OST, in the true kiting era, and when players killed hecks in teams ) Any good Game Developer should get angry and motivated when a high percentage of players don't use a professions toolset until near end-game and sits and/or /follow to level. Nobody can say the current lvl grind from 1-205ish is fun or engaging.

Whether a population supports it or does not, a mechanic that encourages (almost forces really) your playerbase to see less than 10% of your available content is a busted mechanic. And I totally agree on your point about needing TL7 buddies to level. I mean, all respect to the 10,000 token folks who leveled to 200 before SL using nothing but Broken Shores missions, but since SL, the game has been a pretty narrowly defined treadmill that virtually requires ignoring about 90% of the available content.

And no, it neither fun nor engaging for the most part.

[Vinsonar]

all due respect to the handful of you that I actually respect, but I'd never wish to encourage anyone to play this game *more* in it's present state


..Guess I have gotten pretty damn bitter. Gogo gadget ARK-staff though. and well, the rest of you know who you are. :s

[Fhinn]

that's just it, you're thinking in terms of population 'now.' I'm alluding to a possible future with too many players for pocketing to be efficient or viable. It really is a fail mechanic for new players to rely on tl7's to level. (Some of us remember Ely before OST, in the true kiting era, and when players killed hecks in teams ) Any good Game Developer should get angry and motivated when a high percentage of players don't use a professions toolset until near end-game and sits and/or /follow to level. Nobody can say the current lvl grind from 1-205ish is fun or engaging.

I agree totally. But there are many levelling options in game already, and a few xp teaks may make them viable. I think many people only see the "best" way and won't explore at all!

After you have done your numerous dailies there are -

- Team Missions. remember those? I remember doing high QL team mishes and levelling in them! They are varied, and on demand.
- RK Outdoor hunting. I leveled in TL3 at 8x8 and Mort crater.
- SL outdoor hunting. Tiigs, spiders, hecklers....
- There are quests littered all around the place, as well as static dungeons.

I don't call sitting AFK waiting for a kite spot an efficient use of time.

[Icetigerr]

I normally don't get into these discussions, but here goes.

I have run the gamut on gaming from paper games to the latest and greatest mmo's. Gotta say that AO is one of my favorite MMO's.

It is not perfect. None are. I remember the leveling grind. I remember sitting on the hill in Newland waiting for a team. All that changed with SL. I left for a while after SL. Hated the fantasy mix with my favorite SciFi game.

Leveling in AO is the most difficult I have ever seen in any game. I just last week got my first character to 220/20 after 11+ years since his creation. What makes up for it is the huge amount of exploration opportunities and the things you can do to break up the monotony of the level grind.

This is a unique MMO and has soooo much potential. It needs to get out there and let people experience it.

Having said all that, I agree that the XP/SK system needs a complete revamp. The classic AO, Shadow lands, and Alien Content feel like they are all different and separate games. They don't mesh well. XP in one means something completely different in the other. Team missions are worthless in Rubi-ka once you hit 200, and the mechanism for leveling post 200 feels broken.

To attract new players, that will need to be fixed. Right now it seems impossible to level in this game. Most people won't stay long in the face of that when they can have 5 level 85's in WoW or some other game.

This really is a great game. I don't agree that it should be completely dumbed down, but it all needs to fit together seamlessly. As it stands, you need completely different skill sets and knowledge bases to navigate the different expansions.

[Psikie]

Wow 5 pages of non sense. Jill's original post is correct. Everything else here is thread jacking side topics that are garbage.

New players should not get their AO intro with the dark side of a$$ hats behavior. Plain and simple. For that matter what really makes me laugh is the belief that ely hecks are the best xp with OST. There are plenty of level ranges that shoel-ado mobs give greater xp/hour and you don't have to wait for repops you just keep moving through the zone to the next group of mobs.

[Wyoming]

I can honestly say that when a 177 NT tried to steal my friend's froob's kite, I did indeed stab his face.