So is training, but nothing gets done about it.Originally Posted by Anarrina
So is training, but nothing gets done about it.
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Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.
Everything is petitionable. I could put in a petition right now complaining that Burger King doesn't deliver, but that doesn't mean anything will be done about it when my petition gets answered.
Ok, so yeah, this is just getting silly. AO has one of the most intelligent playerbases I've encountered so its embarrassing to have to spell out that clearly she meant a 'valid petition reason'. But, since I guess that wasn't clear, I'll help out and link the valid reasons as shown on the AO webpage.
WHEN CAN I USE THE /PETITION COMMAND?
All problems that must be solved immediately in the game will have first priority. Please try to give general feedback through other channels, like e-mail.
Do not get angry at ARK-members trying to help you with a petition. They are volunteer players and do their best to help you and there is no guarantee that they will be able to help you with your request. Please read the list below to get an idea about what kind of assistance you could expect.
Avoid spamming, repeating, petitions. This will only make it more difficult for us to help you and other players.
Use petitions for these problems:
* Disruptive players, abuse and harassment
* Stuck characters in world geometry (walls, mountains, etc). There is an entry in the faq about stuck characters
* Losing apartment key or other items
* Normal zoning isn't working, but zoning into a mission is working
Problems that are difficult to help with through petition (use mails for this):
* Billing/accounts
* General complaints that do not relate to in-game issues.
* Bugs
Summary:
People train others because said people are dickwads.
Don't do this.
Training is petitionable.
Petitions are usually ineffective.
Many players trick the guy training them into flagging, and then kill them.
This is usually more direct than petitions.
It's also petitionable.
Said petitions are still ineffective.
The little elves who deal with petitions don't think it be like it is, but it do.
Some prefer cold petitionable justice.
Traderjill prefers official, nonpetitionable petitions.
And life
Goes on
Y'know, y'know it ain't easy...
And even if the forum population was the whole of AO, most people that get banned for anything don't talk about it publicly.
Ive only been banned once and that was for harassing GM Vichen, and Ive done a buttload of stuff to get banned for like the good ol' healing graft
Dysfunktion.
Trypants.
Setup.
One bright day in the middle of the night,
Two dead boys got up to fight.
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew their swords, and Shot each other.
A deaf policeman heard the noise,
He came and killed those two dead boys.
If you don't believe this lie is true... ask the Blind Man, He saw it too.
I've been banned twice,Ive only been banned once and that was for harassing GM Vichen, and Ive done a buttload of stuff to get banned for like the good ol' healing graft
once for "harassment" (which was really just someone of the opposite faction wanting to get me banned even though I wasn't really harassing them)
and once for exploiting(can't say which exploit here or I'll get banned from forums lol)
Also got a "warning" from a GM once for telling him to "have a nice <expletive> day"
Last edited by Anarrina; Jul 11th, 2013 at 19:14:01.
AO has one of the most intelligent playerbases I've encountered so it's embarassing to have to spell out clearly that what Anarinna says doesn't necessarily go. There was another post where she said that ARKs don't even handle most petitions anymore, so it's not like she has recent first-hand experience. And remember, you want an answer from a GM, who is a Funcom employee. ARKs are volunteers. They're simply players like you or I who want more responsibility or want to help out. From your own link, though, petitioning as a first response for being stuck? Why not use the /stuck command they implemented? Or huh, maybe that page hasn't been updated and isn't relevant.
Here, from the list of ingame rules, I can think of quite a few that have been broken many times, yet people aren't banned for it.
Well, that covers Mac and Linux players.You will not attempt to play or run Age of Conan, Anarchy Online or The Secret World on any server or emulator that is not controlled or authorized by Funcom.
That covers a lot of the images posted in Reet's.You will not upload or transmit to Funcom forums any copyrighted content that you do not own all rights to, unless you have the express written permission of the author or copyright holder.
This one alone is a huge can of worms that a lot of people have explicitly broken and not been punished for, as Dysfunktion pointed out.You will not exploit any bug and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in game for a character of their profession and level), either directly or through public posting, to any other players. You will promptly report any such bugs to support staff.
The fact is, she can claim it's "petitionable" all she wants, tricking people into getting flagged has been around and unpunished for over a decade, considerably longer than she's been here.
This one has a bit of irony to it. The irony is that you are supposed to report such things to the ARK exploits team and to GMs who are in fact also players of the game.
But if you're going to report an exploit, the best way is by email. Otherwise you have to get lucky with your petitions ingame and hope you get someone who can actually handle the report properly and get something done about it. And reporting individual players that you suspect of using some exploit doesn't really do anything so save yourself the time and only report exploits which you can explain how to do.
Last edited by Unkfix; Jul 11th, 2013 at 18:59:29.
You are correct, I most recently handled petitions over New Years. However, we still have documentation on such things, so I double-checked said documentation.
Of course, the problem here is that people assume all discipline means permanent suspension, which isn't the case, or someone has been suspended and hasn't informed you (such actions are confidential) or it was never petitioned, or it was petitioned and there wasn't sufficient evidence. Nothing is so simple as "BANHAMMER!"Here, from the list of ingame rules, I can think of quite a few that have been broken many times, yet people aren't banned for it.
The fact is, its petitionable, but has only been so, if I recall correctly, maybe the last two years. Also, I've been an ARK for five years, so I'm as aware of the situation as you are, and of the details of how such things have been altered in petition policy, more so.The fact is, she can claim it's "petitionable" all she wants, tricking people into getting flagged has been around and unpunished for over a decade, considerably longer than she's been here.
Last edited by Anarrina; Jul 11th, 2013 at 19:23:20.
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I know of at least one specific time when someone wasn't suspended for an exploit, where it was reported many times, with screenshots and video documentation of exactly how it worked and this person in particular performing the exploit. Naturally this was taken as implicit approval from FC for these methods, since this person went a couple months of logging on and performing the exploit nearly every day, so someone on the other side of the conflict started doing it and did get banned within a week.
The last 2 years would cover the flag mechanics changes, where people, in fact, weren't punished for tricking people into getting flags by buffing them. So overall, I'm getting "you can send in a petition about it, but don't expect anything to be done", which was posted on page 1.
I think its been 3 years actually, as I recall that change happened before instanced pande when it became a problem of people repeatedly flagging entire raids with intention of disrupting them so that they could OD them later. It may not have been an "official" change then, but I recall a few people being banned for such behavior at that time.
Screenshots can't be used as "proof" of anything unfortunately, they're too easily altered to make innocent players look guilty. Furthermore, certain exploits cannot really be "detected" from the server because the effects of the exploit may occur naturally without someone intentionally abusing them and it is often hard to tell the difference without seeing it in action first-hand.
Well, there was this change, and raid shadowing, and they came closely together so you are probably correct.
Coordinator Anarrina
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Ah yes, "it was photoshopped". That defense would work for a lot of people, except it's pretty obvious when most things are photoshopped, and it would have been tough to alter the video, especially in the 10 mins between when it was recorded and when it was uploaded.
How about just watching the player for a couple days? It was always with the same 2 characters, would be easy to see "Both characters are online, let's check up on them every couple mins to see what's going on and which debuffs they have". I have no idea if it ever got fixed, so I can't post more about it, but it was extremely easy to see, even from server-side.
Regardless, this isn't about this particular instance, that was simply an example, this is about how useless it is to petition most things. Weren't GMs shared between all 3 games as well? I know they were around AoC launch, and we all know what happened with a GM in AoC.
Oh, I thought this was about you thinking that Burger King not delivering was petitionable?
At least that's what started the latest string of conversation in this thread.. all of which has nothing to do with my original post or the point of this thread which was a simple request to people to simply stop behaving like they're 4 years old IRL (and to encourage their orgmates to behave as well).
Last edited by Traderjill; Jul 11th, 2013 at 21:33:49.
Well, so much for the AO playerbase being intelligent. My Burger King example was obviously hyperbole to make a point, that petitioning for most things is useless. Kind of embarrassing that seems to have slipped past you. Which seems pretty relevant to your post, considering you mention petitioning in OP.
How do you know the NT was with them? Maybe it was a NT that wasn't using an OST. Maybe it was an NT simply running for his life? All I see in this thread is "wah, I got trained. I know there are other places to kill hecklers, but instead I let my team disperse without bringing it up". If you knew about these other places where OSTs don't go, you could have shown your team and taught some potentially new players (because we don't know anything about your team, maybe they were all vets) new hunting grounds. How will you handle it if your new org's goal is achieved? "Oh well, too many teams killing, we'd better just log off for now"? Back in my day, we kept running along the coast until we found a spot that wasn't taken. A lot of the time we'd be way up near Scheol. If you or these new players won't put forth the effort, then why should others? There are definitely areas of the game where a new player will need help, but "I got trained twice" isn't one of them. If they can't handle dying, AO isn't for them.
Could the two of you stop the personal sniping, please.
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Our little back and forth started when Anarrina made a statement that you decided to make fun of by commenting on its literal meaning. The result was me eventually doing the same with your Burger King comment. I shouldn't resorted to those tactics as I don't agree with them. My apologies.
To answer your questions...
1. You're right, it is possible that the Enfo and NT, both in the same org were not together. It is possible that they just happened to be in the same area or they decided to have an org DD contest to see which of them was stronger. That being said, based off of the fact that they both trained us (enfo first then enfo+nt combo 2nd time), my experience in-game and gut feel tells me that they were working together.
2. I'm sorry that's how you read my original post as that was not at all the intention. Let me restate and/or clarify a few things. I did suggest other options but the people were so frustrated by the behavior that, rather than move to another spot and risk the same type of behavior they decided to just call it for the day. As mentioned in my original post, there were OST teams in both directions from where we were and while I know of the areas mentioned, they just weren't interested in going. I can understand how, as a new player, it could just seem like an epidemic and they just give up for the day. That's the issue I was trying to point out. It isn't about outside tank teams or kiting but about how new players perceive this game community. This forum is filled with people complaining about power leveled noobs, folks missing nanos, not having the skill or taking the time to learn to play their class and so on. The thing is, when people do try to learn and play the game they run into situations such as the one I described. It is no wonder they just join the Romans and sit afk in a kite team for levels.
3. I wasn't whining about being trained or anything else. I'm sure, at some point, I whine about something that annoys me but its pretty rare that I do it in written form. I've played AO since 2004.. please do not think that the team I described was the first time I've been trained. I've had more kite hill drama, trains and other nonsense in-game than I could even possibly recall. Prior to this past week's incident, I don't think I'd petitioned an ely heck situation since 2006. Many people have thrown out rule breaking suggestions on how to handle the issue but again, the problem wasn't that I didn't know how to handle the problem or that I didn't know where else to go. Historically if someone would've done that to me, I just would've logged a couple toons and gone hunting for monster parts and perennium bolts in their area. A 220 can kill any spawn of hecks faster than any team or NT really. It wasn't, however, about me at all. I post on the forums but I'm not going to post about being trained in one leveling session unless I perceive it to be an issue that affects more than me. I"m hearing lots of players complaining about this and truth be told my original post was really about the way newer players perceive this type of behavior and a plea to vets to discourage it (themselves and in their org). The situation that happened at sunken house was just an example for talking purposes.. the real point of my original post got buried in the discussion of 'is it harassment?' 'can we petition it?' 'do petitions work?' debates.
4. You're comparing a situation where there are lots of teams with a situation that is defined as in-game harassment. I can't respond to that because they're not comparable situations. Training, regardless of how trivial it may seem to you or anyone else, is harassment and against the game rules. Too many teams in an area.. well that's not.
5. People that make comments like yours "If they can't handle dying {insert being trained multiple times as that's what happened}, AO isn't for them" Are part of the attitude I was trying to address. I, for one, would like more players/people to play with and think that rather than have the old jaded "if you can't handle being harassed then you're in the wrong game" attitude we should all publicly condemn this type of behavior (training and such) instead of blaming the victim for not being tough-skinned enough.
Last edited by Traderjill; Jul 12th, 2013 at 00:30:30.
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