A Plea to Vets: Don't discourage new players

[Traderjill]

So what you guys are saying is that you basically break the rules because you don't feel as if you'll get caught. That's your choice to do so.. but that doesn't mean what you're doing isn't considered to be wrong.

Everyone has to let their conscience be their guide.. for me, I choose to not play games (or real life) that way. I'd prefer the issue to be addressed in a manner that doesn't require me to break policy for resolution.

[srompu]

the nice people showing others how they worked by grabbing a towerflag and asking for a buff

A moment of silence, please, for the carnage that was Desert Rider 2012.

Edit:

So what you guys are saying is that you basically break the rules because you don't feel as if you'll get caught. That's your choice to do so.. but that doesn't mean what you're doing isn't considered to be wrong.

I doubt many of them are doing it with a devious attitude. It's merely more useful than the petition system. If they petition, they'll get an offline response 6 hours after they log off, the people training them have their levels, their own team chain-died and quit, and the GMs won't do anything.

[Raggy]

So what you guys are saying is that you basically break the rules because you don't feel as if you'll get caught. That's your choice to do so.. but that doesn't mean what you're doing isn't considered to be wrong.

Everyone has to let their conscience be their guide.. for me, I choose to not play games (or real life) that way. I'd prefer the issue to be addressed in a manner that doesn't require me to break policy for resolution.

If it didn't take 9 hours for something like this to get sorted, I wouldn't need to resort to it. But honestly when the system is this slow and convoluted, it's easier just to do w/e the hell you can to get your own back.

[Traderjill]

I doubt many of them are doing it with a devious attitude. It's merely more useful than the petition system. If they petition, they'll get an offline response 6 hours after they log off, the people training them have their levels, their own team chain-died and quit, and the GMs won't do anything.

If it didn't take 9 hours for something like this to get sorted, I wouldn't need to resort to it. But honestly when the system is this slow and convoluted, it's easier just to do w/e the hell you can to get your own back.

Look..

I'm not saying that the people in this thread that go gank an enfo that trained them are some sort of low life criminals.

This whole line of discussion came up because someone suggested that "I" should've ganked the enforcer and NT. My stance is that "I" do not break game rules. The result was people saying it wasn't breaking game rules when in reality it is.. they just don't care because AO doesn't have a reasonable system in place to protect its players from harassment behavior (referring to the NT's and Enfos that are intentionally training leveling teams) so players are going vigilante.

If people would've said that from start rather than try to make out like I'm crazy or wrong for saying its against the rules, we could've all stopped posting about a page or so ago.

[Lazy]

if no one's ever been punished for breaking that rule, is it really a rule to begin with? tl7's in lowbie areas have always been fair game for gnaks for as long as i can remember.

[Traderjill]

if no one's ever been punished for breaking that rule, is it really a rule to begin with? tl7's in lowbie areas have always been fair game for gnaks for as long as i can remember.

You mean if you guys haven't been punished or 'no one'? Because how can you be sure that no one has ever been punished for breaking the rule? The people that post on the forums are only a small percentage of the population and even only a small percentage of us have even responded in this thread.

To any effect, I'm not ganking anyone in Ely and not asking anyone to gank someone on my behalf. How about people start encouraging their orgmates to stop behaving like obnoxious a-hats and play better with others (or kick them out of org)?

[Raggy]

You mean if you guys haven't been punished or 'no one'? Because how can you be sure that no one has ever been punished for breaking the rule? The people that post on the forums are only a small percentage of the population and even only a small percentage of us have even responded in this thread.

Because if someone had legitimately been banned for ganking an OST in Ely, EVERYONE would know about it, simply because of how damn ridiculous it would be. Word travels fast in AO.

To any effect, I'm not ganking anyone in Ely and not asking anyone to gank someone on my behalf. How about people start encouraging their orgmates to stop behaving like obnoxious a-hats and play better with others (or kick them out of org)?

I'm not saying don't take the moral high ground, I applaud you for doing so, but let's be realistic here. The AO community is selfish, they couldn't give a flying eff that your team just got wiped out, providing they are still able to OST for their friend or profit.

And by going straight to the Org Pres about it is going to do diddly squat.

[Traderjill]

Because if someone had legitimately been banned for ganking an OST in Ely, EVERYONE would know about it, simply because of how damn ridiculous it would be. Word travels fast in AO.

We'll have to agree to disagree here since neither of us can prove our point. I don't think people always flaunt that they got banned for doing something stupid.

The AO community is selfish, they couldn't give a flying eff that your team just got wiped out, providing they are still able to OST for their friend or profit.

And by going straight to the Org Pres about it is going to do diddly squat.

Ok.. I definitely disagree with you here and this thread is proof positive that isn't the case. I didn't see a single post in this thread supporting the enforcer/NT and there were some offers to come out and help if I decided to go down that road. I happen to think that AO's community, overall, is very helpful and supportive and that's why I posted this thread in the first place. It is the minority that are selfish but they're a loud-obnoxious-whatever minority. Perhaps, even to me, it seems like there's more than they are because it is in such contrast to the 'norm'.

As for going to the President. The org that the Enf/NT were in was an old RK1 Clan org that I'm not familiar with (being that I've only been back a couple weeks after being gone 9mo) so I had no reason to think they'd even entertain a conversation with me. If, however, it had been an org (omni/neut/clan) that I've known over the years, I totally would've contacted a President/General about the situation. I would never demand that someone kick someone from that org but most of the orgs I know (always exceptions, of course) don't support griefing other players. Even the toughest of the tough PvP orgs who have the awesome twinks and such don't necessarily condone griefing/harassment. They handle their issues in lowered gas, tower fields, battlestations, etc.

[Raggy]

We'll have to agree to disagree here since neither of us can prove our point. I don't think people always flaunt that they got banned for doing something stupid.

I guess, but if and when people get banned for stuff that is practically daily occurance, they get a bit peeved and will of course shout and yell about it.

Ok.. I definitely disagree with you here and this thread is proof positive that isn't the case. I didn't see a single post in this thread supporting the enforcer/NT and there were some offers to come out and help if I decided to go down that road. I happen to think that AO's community, overall, is very helpful and supportive and that's why I posted this thread in the first place. It is the minority that are selfish but they're a loud-obnoxious-whatever minority. Perhaps, even to me, it seems like there's more than they are because it is in such contrast to the 'norm'.

As for going to the President. The org that the Enf/NT were in was an old RK1 Clan org that I'm not familiar with (being that I've only been back a couple weeks after being gone 9mo) so I had no reason to think they'd even entertain a conversation with me. If, however, it had been an org (omni/neut/clan) that I've known over the years, I totally would've contacted a President/General about the situation. I would never demand that someone kick someone from that org but most of the orgs I know (always exceptions, of course) don't support griefing other players. Even the toughest of the tough PvP orgs who have the awesome twinks and such don't necessarily condone griefing/harassment. They handle their issues in lowered gas, tower fields, battlestations, etc.

We have had incredibly different experiences regarding contacting the orgs then. I've been trained hundreds of times on various chars, tried taking it to the org leader or highest ranking online player, in a polite fashion only to be told in short to "Deal with it". Suddenly they start caring when I show up and wipe their OST out 3 times on the trot and threaten me with petitions, which frankly, is beyond hypocritical and just downright hilarious.

[Traderjill]

We have had incredibly different experiences regarding contacting the orgs then. I've been trained hundreds of times on various chars, tried taking it to the org leader or highest ranking online player, in a polite fashion only to be told in short to "Deal with it". Suddenly they start caring when I show up and wipe their OST out 3 times on the trot and threaten me with petitions, which frankly, is beyond hypocritical and just downright hilarious.

I suspect we may run in different circles and have different communication styles/approaches as well And I dunno.. I'm not that bada** so maybe I'm just not that much of a threat to others whereas someone with a more aggressive reputation might have to deal with that (not saying you have a more aggressive reputation.. just providing an example for thought).

I generally preface anything I say to an org leader with "I am not asking or expecting you to do anything regarding what I'm about to say, but just want to make you aware of a situation. What you do about it, if anything, is up to you and please don't feel any obligation to respond to me at all about it."

I've never had anyone respond back rudely. I have gotten thanks for letting them know or a statement that they'd follow up with the org member. In some rare cases where I'm friends with the org leader or they know me well enough to know I don't go around making up stuff about people, there has been some discipline (or even a kick) but that's about it... never a "Too bad" or "STFU" type response at all.

[Esssch]

if no one's ever been punished for breaking that rule, is it really a rule to begin with?

See: United States Flag Code.

This is a U.S. federal law, but there is no penalty for failure to comply with it. In fact, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that punitive enforcement would conflict with the First Amendment right to freedom of speech.

[Raggy]

I suspect we may run in different circles and have different communication styles/approaches as well And I dunno.. I'm not that bada** so maybe I'm just not that much of a threat to others whereas someone with a more aggressive reputation might have to deal with that (not saying you have a more aggressive reputation.. just providing an example for thought).

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR, no really, I just think I happen to get the worst of the bunch really. I'm not aggressive in my approach towards solving the issue with higher ranking Org members, I just seem to get the least amount of sympathy possible from them.

I totally understand you not agreeing with the method of forced PvP, but 9 times out of 10, it stops my team breaking up and solves the trainhappy OST, which for me, regardless of what any GM says, is a resolution .

[wonderland]

http://i.imgur.com/yzfvI3q.png

#SimpleSolutions #swagglyfe #Yolocopter

(PS, I know about 5~ instances of people over the course of 7 years being banned for intentionally flagging and killing people at elysium. They were doing it for long enough for a GM to arrive and watch them.)

I doubt many of them are doing it with a devious attitude. It's merely more useful than the petition system. If they petition, they'll get an offline response 6 hours after they log off, the people training them have their levels, their own team chain-died and quit, and the GMs won't do anything.

Player-made solutions, at this point in time, are much more effective than waiting for understaffed customer support.

[Raggy]

http://i.imgur.com/yzfvI3q.png

#SimpleSolutions #swagglyfe #Yolocopter



Player-made solutions, at this point in time, are much more effective than waiting for understaffed customer support.

Rofl, by that definition, kite hill is a full-blown exploit area.

[Traderjill]

http://i.imgur.com/yzfvI3q.png

#SimpleSolutions #swagglyfe #Yolocopter



Player-made solutions, at this point in time, are much more effective than waiting for understaffed customer support.

Just a side observation...I don't think the GM you were speaking with knew what you were asking when you said Kite Disruption. Their response to that part of your question was regarding rules 'against' kiting not rules regarding disrupting/interfering with kiting.

[wonderland]

Rofl, by that definition, kite hill is a full-blown exploit area.

I'm sorry, how do you spell "harassment" again?

Reading comprehension. When you stop acting irrational and put things into perspective for just a little bit, it's not that complicated.

Let me quote the part where he states harassment for you,

Intentionally flagging someone for pvp qualifies as basic harassment;

In completely different question that had to do with something that I thought GMs also needed to watch out for, potentially separate of intentionally flagging, I asked about "intentionally flagging OR exploiting." In which it was never indicated that intentionally flagging is considered an exploit.

Any questions?

[Raggy]

I'm sorry, how do you spell "harassment" again?

Reading comprehension. When you stop acting irrational and put things into perspective for just a little bit, it's not that complicated.

Let me quote the part where he states harassment for you,



In completely different question that had to do with something that I thought GMs also needed to watch out for, potentially separate of intentionally flagging, I asked about "intentionally flagging OR exploiting." In which it was never indicated that intentionally flagging is considered an exploit.

Any questions?

Wow, reading comprehension yourself. I never argued the harassment point, stop jumping to conclusions.

If you kite a mob to a location where you can hit the mob but the mob cannot hit you, that is not intended and would be a violation. Other than that there are no rules against kiting

What is OSTing at the base of kite hill and nuking from above?

[Traderjill]

Technically, isn't kiting itself the act of constantly moving such that the mob is in a location (range) where you can hit it, but it cannot hit you? I think I know what the GM was trying to say but really he just defined kiting itself as a violation.

[Anarrina]

when they changed the tower flagging mechanics the nice people showing others how they worked by grabbing a towerflag and asking for a buff didn't even get a stern talking to. so no, there is no rule against intentionally flagging someone.

Intentional forced flagging and kite disruption are, in fact, petitionable.

[Traderjill]

Intentional forced flagging and kite disruption are, in fact, petitionable.

That's what I've been trying to tell them. Thanks for coming here to confirm