A Plea to Vets: Don't discourage new players

[wonderland]

I agree, you should have ganked that enfo to oblivion

This.

Theres missconceptions over RK2 from RK1s point of view and in the same fashion theres missconceptions over RK1 from RK2s point of view, suuuure the lowbie twinks were so much better, its bull and everyone knows it deep down just doesnt wanna realise it because hey my epeen is so big.

STOP THAT

STOP THAT RIGHT THIS INSTANT

TRASH TALK RK2 RIGHT NOW

I do try to every now and then help someone out and once ive helped and i have to go, i give them a little credit boost so they get just that little step further. There is actually not much wrong with giving some credits (1-15 mil) but teaching them how to fish is equally important. But if teaching takes to long they loose interrest aswell.

When people either prove to me that they're willing to put in the effort, I'll give them stuff.

Or if they're really nice.

[Traderjill]

My understanding, unless something has changed, is that if you flag up and intentionally get in the aoe mongo range of an enforcer that is OSTing hecks or in the nuke range of a NT that is kiting hecks and then attack them that you can be punished/banned for 'kite interruption/interference'.

This is coming directly from a chat I had with a GM about 2 years ago. Trust me, if that were an option I would've taken it. Unfortunately, as players, we have no real way to police the situation any longer as if we do, the harrassed becomes and is considered the harrasser.

[Ahndracorvid]

Haha @ GMs. "Kite interruption." That's great. When is the OST kiting exactly? Kiting by its name suggests the person in question actually has to move to pull their kite along. Like an NT does legitimately. Standing on top of a hill spamming AoEs isn't kiting, it's just nuking. And no, pulling all the hecks in East Ely to 1 spot doesn't count if it's done by a 220 enf/doc.

Dear dev team. Instead of allowing medsuit gimps to petition the people trying to break the monopoly that often results from OSTs "hogging" Ely, allow everyone else to petition OSTs so the content you designed becomes more accessible to your players. Thanks.

Also, if that 220 OST has been a dick to another team by deliberately trying to train them so they can't kill any of "his" hecks, that team should be fully within rights to log their 220s and flag up. It's often the only way of fighting back and, quite frankly, that OST was asking for it by being a jerk in the first place.

[Metafly7]

Its the easiest way of evening out the problem, if they harrass you, it in our own minds makes it okay to give that person a taste of his own medicin. The problem being that the other way around by use of the petition system takes a long time (more punishment for petitioner) then some GM shows up and you have to believe his word for it that something will be done. There is no gratification for an action. So the easiest way usually is just being as bold as the harrasser.

In my eyes though that person musta done something bold as training intentionally (twice) before id do that. Ive definitely seen ppl do it just so that they can even take their spot on the kitehill which is sad

[Awikun]

My understanding, unless something has changed, is that if you flag up and intentionally get in the aoe mongo range of an enforcer that is OSTing hecks or in the nuke range of a NT that is kiting hecks and then attack them that you can be punished/banned for 'kite interruption/interference'.

This is coming directly from a chat I had with a GM about 2 years ago. Trust me, if that were an option I would've taken it. Unfortunately, as players, we have no real way to police the situation any longer as if we do, the harrassed becomes and is considered the harrasser.

I have to agree with Traderjill on that one.
Coming flagged to an OST and killing him will be seen by GM as harrasment and it does not matter that the same OST first trained a team of player who was killing Hecklers one by one.

In such situation very often it comes down to language/communication skills as GM would be talking to both parties and take his judgement based on how he see the whole situation.

The safe solution is to petition and wait (do nothing). Unfortunatelly such behaviour will often take hours and end up with nothing

[Iriche]

You can always just bring flags, but nothing more ,)

[Raggy]

Flagging an Enfo and killing him isn't a petitionable offence. I have done it countless times to the D-bags who can KOed my team, all of whom have QQd about it and said that they have petitioned me. I havn't had a single response from a GM telling me to stop.

Not like I would anyway. Training is LABELED as a petition reason. PvP isn't. Pressing Mongo is taking a risk that you get flagged, doesn't matter where you are. What if you Mongo in Bor and catch a flag and ganked? Is that harrassment? Is it hell.

[wonderland]

I believe the rule is against intentionally flagging someone. Doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with hecklers, kiting, or whatever. Maybe there is extra to do with kiting, but I was of the understanding/belief that any kind of intentional flagging was against the rules.

If you intentionally walk into a nanotechnician's area of effect, or an enforcer's mongo and try to flag them/kill them, you would be breaking the rules.

Stuff like exploits, harassment, and this is a real issue when the GM queues take 2 to 8 hours. May as well not even petition about it because you're sure 90% of the time when the GM gets to you they'll be stopped, unless the person doing it really doesn't mind being banned/care at all/is stupid.

[Traderjill]

Flagging an Enfo and killing him isn't a petitionable offence. I have done it countless times to the D-bags who can KOed my team, all of whom have QQd about it and said that they have petitioned me. I havn't had a single response from a GM telling me to stop.

Not like I would anyway. Training is LABELED as a petition reason. PvP isn't. Pressing Mongo is taking a risk that you get flagged, doesn't matter where you are. What if you Mongo in Bor and catch a flag and ganked? Is that harassment? Is it hell.

I spoke to a GM today and, for the record, the petition issue is forcing PvP on someone by flagging up and intentionally getting in the path of them when you know they're going to AoE for PvM (or about to AoE for PvM). I couldn't get a straight 'yes' or 'no' but the statement was "that is likely to be construed as harassment" and that's good enough for me to avoid it as I don't want an account ban.

The bigger problem is that due to how long it takes to get a response to a harassment petition. You basically are left with just leaving when a player is intentionally doing something to harass you. In other words, their behavior works. They know that it takes so long for a petition to be resolved that the GM is not going to be there to witness the behavior. If they aren't dumb enough to confirm the harassment in /tells, nothing in combat logs and such will definitively confirm the training or harassment and they know they won't be punished.

[User1337]

This only makes me remember the times when we had a "chinese plague" of people from such country who both OST and looted ingots to sell them, make credits and then eBay them, which lead to FC deleting these ingots from the game (altho they were nothing but great for the economy of n00bs).

If their response to the economy issue was so blunt, why not tackle this problem too as efficiently? Ban these people for a while. Stop OST, bring the game back to life. OST SUCKS because you end up with a char you don't know.

[Khlin]

Not like I would anyway. Training is LABELED as a petition reason. PvP isn't. Pressing Mongo is taking a risk that you get flagged, doesn't matter where you are. What if you Mongo in Bor and catch a flag and ganked? Is that harrassment? Is it hell.

No, mongoing in bor and getting flagged is not;

but some 160sh flagged agent sneaking to a 147sh enf under P7 just to get their pvp kicks and doing that repeatedly is.

[Raggy]

No, mongoing in bor and getting flagged is not;

but some 160sh flagged agent sneaking to a 147sh enf under P7 just to get their pvp kicks and doing that repeatedly is.

I didn't realise a 147ish Enf could OST Elysium Hecks.

[MachSchau]

This only makes me remember the times when we had a "chinese plague" of people from such country who both OST and looted ingots to sell them, make credits and then eBay them, which lead to FC deleting these ingots from the game (altho they were nothing but great for the economy of n00bs).

If their response to the economy issue was so blunt, why not tackle this problem too as efficiently? Ban these people for a while. Stop OST, bring the game back to life. OST SUCKS because you end up with a char you don't know.

Or you could promote my thread! http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=606537

[Lazy]

I believe the rule is against intentionally flagging someone.

when they changed the tower flagging mechanics the nice people showing others how they worked by grabbing a towerflag and asking for a buff didn't even get a stern talking to. so no, there is no rule against intentionally flagging someone.

[Khlin]

I didn't realise a 147ish Enf could OST Elysium Hecks.

Erm... why not?

I did tank at 150 Ely hecks for a few friends... 2-3 at a time, managed 5 with their team's doc throwing some heals.

[Traderjill]

I didn't realise a 147ish Enf could OST Elysium Hecks.

Whether the enfo is 147 or 220 isn't relevant. The important element here is that someone (the agent in sneak that was described) intentionally brought a flag and got in the aoe range of the enforcer to intentionally flag them.

when they changed the tower flagging mechanics the nice people showing others how they worked by grabbing a towerflag and asking for a buff didn't even get a stern talking to. so no, there is no rule against intentionally flagging someone.

The GM I spoke to yesterday confirmed that there is such a rule. However, getting a contagious flag by actively deciding to buff a flagged person or from someone in your own team does not fall under the same category as someone outside of your team flagging up and intentionally getting in your AOE (directed at a NPC) to flag you.

When I spoke to the GM yesterday I did, in fact, bring up the scenario of Desert Rider and how, on numerous occasions this year, I got flagged on my doc because someone in my group was flagged. I asked if I could have petitioned the folks that brought the flag and was told that I couldn't (because me getting flagged from healing someone in my group that was flagged was just part of the contagious team flag mechanic). He did, however, state that the first person in my group that got flagged by the person from outside the team could have petitioned.

That being said, I find the whole thing ridiculously over complicated and I think the tower flag being as contagious as it is is utterly retarded. It is no wonder that the 2nd GM I spoke to (the guy I've been referencing was the 3rd) actually told me that he couldn't clarify what was a violation of the rules of conduct and what wasn't.

[aramsunat]

The GM I spoke to yesterday confirmed that there is such a rule. I'm not sure what you're saying here.. that I'm lieing or the GM was?

There is no such rule. The only rule is that harrassment is a bannable offense. What is considered harrassment is entirely up to the GMs prejudice. Or your ability to convince them.

I once have AOE nuked down an entire levelling team at PW borgs as they were at the opened towersite. And havent got banned. I told the GM it was a mistake I thought they were gonna attack the towers ;P Anyway it was fun once so I left them alone after that so it wasnt harrassment. Should I have kept being a jerk, the GM would have had any right to ban.

[Traderjill]

There is no such rule. The only rule is that harrassment is a bannable offense. What is considered harrassment is entirely up to the GMs prejudice. Or your ability to convince them.

I feel like we're getting caught up in technicalities here but the GM I spoke to said that intentionally flagging another player without their permission in the scenarios I tossed out to him (the flagging of the OST in ely and the desert rider situation described above) would more than likely be construed as harassment. If an action is perceived as harassment, that would mean that said action is against the rules of conduct. And this brings me back to the original statements I made in this thread when someone suggested that I should've flagged up and killed the enfo.

{removed from original post}

I don't mind 'getting my hands dirty' to resolve issues.. I'm a pretty hands on type of person. I do not however, believe in cheating/breaking rules in a video game... that's extremely pathetic from my vantage point. As such, I would never ask a friend (or anyone really) to put their account at risk of ban by doing something that I believe is against the game rules. If I'm not sure if something is against the rules I err on the side of caution until I can file a petition and ask for clarification. Following this process has kept my account free from sanctions for 9 years.. not really going to deviate from that now.

[Dysfunction]

Jill, lemme know if you need anyone ganked in ely, i throughly enjoy ganking there.. regardless of faction!

[Raggy]

I feel like we're getting caught up in technicalities here but the GM I spoke to said that intentionally flagging another player without their permission in the scenarios I tossed out to him (the flagging of the OST in ely and the desert rider situation described above) would more than likely be construed as harassment. If an action is perceived as harassment, that would mean that said action is against the rules of conduct. And this brings me back to the original statements I made in this thread when someone suggested that I should've flagged up and killed the enfo.




I don't mind 'getting my hands dirty' to resolve issues.. I'm a pretty hands on type of person. I do not however, believe in cheating/breaking rules in a video game... that's extremely pathetic from my vantage point. As such, I would never ask a friend (or anyone really) to put their account at risk of ban by doing something that I believe is against the game rules. If I'm not sure if something is against the rules I err on the side of caution until I can file a petition and ask for clarification. Following this process has kept my account free from sanctions for 9 years.. not really going to deviate from that now.

Regardless of what that particular GM might have said, I have been doing it for well over 8 years and havn't had a single telling off. I only do it when needed, I don't intentionally seek to disrupt unless they disrupt first.

Let's also think about it for a moment. How many people do you know who have been banned for intentionally flagging an Ely Heck OST? I can't think of anyone. Nor can I think of anyone banned for training. All petitioning does is being in the 3rd party to give you a 'stern talking to'.

This is ANARCHY Online.