Recover AO's leveling experience!

[Leetlover]

I am for the idea, but I think we need to bug FC to change a few things instead.

[Iroko]

would be nice to see =]

[Mastura]

Agree with nostalgia and your movement Agree with Essch too, we need to get FC to change dynamic a little - and this has been a problem for some time.

One way to do it is the way a lot of other MMOs have done it -
Docs should get rewarded for heals, Enfs should be rewarded for tanking damage, etc - not just per kill - this has been used in many other MMOs quite effectively.

Another way is to just do it on dps but have your xp reflect your damage output as an individual. Ie - you need to have done at least 10% of the damage to the mob in question to obtain XP - in a full team of 6, it shouldnt be too hard. Ofc NTs will cry but so what. This will also have a flipside of people actively ungimping their toons every step of the way at each TL or something instead of running around inf at 160 with medsuit, because if they slack, they won't get rewarded.

Lastly, I guess you could also provide incentives like 1 token or research bonus or something per kill to people that do 10%+ damage to the mob. If it is just the NT kiting, then htey can still do it kh way and NTs will not QQ so much but, if you want to make a team it becomes an incentive because u get regular + research (and/or token) because you are an actual team.

Any other interesting ideas?

[Ciex]

I dont buy this statement "noobs join kite teams and ...". Over last two weeks i tried to get into one of those kite teams in the evenings GMT, offering 10 mln per level on my tl4 MP. I did get only one invite into team that did not work. After all i leveled on daily missions. Where exactly are all those gamebreaking teams everyone can join?

[Hell]

The real way to make leveling engaging is to offer a sense of accomplishment through the task, or offer secondary rewards for having to kill monsters. The reason the RK leveling experience has always been the most enjoyable is because you can farm gear for yourself while you gain experience. Strictly doing one or the other just feels like a grind. Doing both peels away from part of the monotony of each task slightly, and adds multiple rewards for your effort making you feel good about your time investment.

That.

Add more dungeons similar to Subway, Foremans, and especially ToTW and leveling would be somewhat enjoyable again.

put the level-able and upgrade-able armor to those dungeons + also make these kinda duengeons in Ely, Scheol, Ado, Pen

/profit

Sadly we again get to the part where we can not change anything but FC.

Anyway - great idea I love it but Im afraid it wont work until game changes.

[Steiden]

Originally Posted by Boxcar88: ----> "Kite hill" and the fact that no one levels in Adonis or Penumbra is going to kill our beloved game.



Cant understand that. My toons leaving Ely when they were about lvl 147, and go direct to Adonis staying in heck teams there until they reach lvl 190 at least.
Then it was time for doing Inf. You level pretty fast in those Ado heck teams.

[RedWatr]

I just did 0-60 on an engy, it took me a week. I enjoyed every level. yep.

[Awikun]

Most of my alts that I was leveling last year hardly ever teamed anybody !

The above statement shows two things:
1. Experienced player (with enough credits/items) can equip a character in such a way that it can solo level without any problems.
2. Team leveling is becoming less and less popular.

Of course it does not make me happy and I can understand frustration of new players who do not have resources and knowledge to do the same.

There is one more thing that in my opinion killed team leveling, it is daily mission.
With daily mission I get a lot better XP/hour than any possible team play !
The only dissadvantage is that I can finish all dailies in several minutes ...
But as I have several charaters to play it was never a problem for me. I just do all dailies then log next character...

I would love to see more team leveling but with the present situation in AO I do not believe or expect it, which is a sad thing ...

[Obtena]

Serious? Recover? Let me ask, what part of AO's leveling experience has EVER been something you would want to experience AGAIN! Maybe my mind is leaving me but I can't think of a single instance where leveling made me feel like I was having fun. Even with the best of friends, it was mindnumbing.

IMO, the best move FC could do would be to allow people pay them for pre-made characters.

[Liamboru]

Serious? Recover? Let me ask, what part of AO's leveling experience has EVER been something you would want to experience AGAIN! Maybe my mind is leaving me but I can't think of a single instance where leveling made me feel like I was having fun. Even with the best of friends, it was mindnumbing.

IMO, the best move FC could do would be to allow people pay them for pre-made characters.

Experiences differ, I agree. However, I can still recall, albeit vaguely, the literal excitement at gaining a new level, thinking about how I might improve my toon with new skills, gear, nanos, pets, etc. I hardly think that any more, but at least the first time or two, it was good.

[Chewy1]

Experiences differ, I agree. However, I can still recall, albeit vaguely, the literal excitement at gaining a new level, thinking about how I might improve my toon with new skills, gear, nanos, pets, etc. I hardly think that any more, but at least the first time or two, it was good.

^This.

[Traderjill]

Serious? Recover? Let me ask, what part of AO's leveling experience has EVER been something you would want to experience AGAIN! Maybe my mind is leaving me but I can't think of a single instance where leveling made me feel like I was having fun. Even with the best of friends, it was mindnumbing.

IMO, the best move FC could do would be to allow people pay them for pre-made characters.

I have an uncountable number of fun leveling experiences in my memory bank though, many of them were done while on voice chat with friends and most (all) of us were drunk.

[RedWatr]

I'd love to see an optional live server started from fresh, no GMI full of everything you need, no alien armor already made, raids required for stuff we solo afk now, this would be freaking awesome imo.

I have a feeling I would spend the majority of my time playing there. all those firsts waiting to happen, all over again

[Traderjill]

Since 5.4 released for WoW a few days ago, I've been logging in and thinking of why I enjoy playing WoW so much as opposed to the rare glimpses of joy I get out of AO.

The summary: I still have a feeling of accomplishment in beating a challenge and obtaining gear in WoW whereas in AO that simply doesn't happen.

Some might argue that after you've played a game for 10 years, there isn't much of a challenge left but that isn't the cause of the problem in AO. The cause is the fact that leveling a new toon pretty much means doing the same old raid content 'again' on my Crat, Soldier, Doc and Enfo. I'm leveling an engie now and I might be able to get raid invites on her, but I've almost already farmed all of her endgame gear with my other toons because it just makes sense (timewise) to do so. If I don't, then I'll be waiting another 2 years before I have the stuff I need to gear her up at 220.

In WoW, they come out with new raids and you get your gear from those raids through the individual effort of the toon that is attending. That's almost a foreign concept in AO these days (well for quite a few years actually). To be honest, that's really a shame because each of AO's professions has such a unique toolset and playstyle/experience that playing through raid content would be an almost totally different experience each time you did it.

To this day there are raids in AO that I haven't done on my TL7 Trader, MP, Advy, Fixer, Shade or NT. They simply aren't/weren't the right toons to bring to get the job done.

[Esssch]

If all you had at 220 was an MP, you'd have done them!


Okay, maybe not. I still haven't done Gauntlet or DB3.

[Traderjill]

If all you had at 220 was an MP, you'd have done them!


Okay, maybe not. I still haven't done Gauntlet or DB3.

If all I had at 220 was a MP I think I would've quit long ago

Getting back on topic of leveling...

When I recall leveling teams 'back in the day' I remember being in teams that had a variety of profession combinations. Part of the fun was the challenge of allowing people to use their toolsets to the fullest when we didn't have an enfo and a doc in team. Back then people were getting the best (they could cast) in each of their nanolines and prepared to use them whereas now you run into a lot of people missing entire lines of nanos, just waiting to get to 215+ and use the DB version [i.e. I teamed a crat for APF the other day that was TL7 and didn't have a single nano in the malaise line.. said he couldn't cast or didn't have the APF one yet]

[Obtena]

I have an uncountable number of fun leveling experiences in my memory bank though, many of them were done while on voice chat with friends and most (all) of us were drunk.

Truth, you have to be drunk to enjoy leveling in AO.

My post was a bit harsh. The FIRST time leveling gave some good experiences. The remainder were just painful.

[patrick187]

Want to recover the old school AO leveling experience? Then make RK team missions give decent xp that would be some percentage of what dailies give. Because all Inferno missions and hecklering in Elysium and Adonis did was provide a faster alternative to endlessly grinding team missions in Broken Shores.

Exactly all the same OOC/LFT chat was the same, all the PUG mechanics were the same, all of it. Back in the day, when 200 was the level cap, and even in SL's first year or so before Ergo would just give you rings and you HAD to quest to the next zone, RK team missions were exactly like Inferno team missions. You found a 200 to do the rolling, then a full team of 150ish folks rolled a mission with level 250 ace mobs, lather, rinse, repeat.

All dailies, OST/pockets, hecklering at Beach, Inf missions did was change where the one high level toon carried a bunch of leeches through a faster leveling grind.

Restoring the old A leveling experience means resigning people back to Broken Shore team missions until their eyes bleed, because that's what the old leveling experience was. And if you were lucky and knew a high level NT, you leeched off an NT doing one of RK's good NT kite spots. Sound familiar? NT's were using twinked enforcer OSTs back in the day. Nothing new now, just relocated to different zones with better xp per hour.

My point is, having actually done Broken Shores team missions, with the then holy trinity of crat/doc/enf, killing level 2xx ace mobs in various BS mission locs for an entire weekend....the leveling experience of now is just like it was then, except now there's a lot more uber geared level 220 helpers, there's more options for faster level grinding, and it's easier to gear yourself to do a lot of it solo.

And to the person who brought up WoW and any new patch....LMAO. Here's effective grinding in WoW: in 30 days after new xpac comes out, level to max, get 80-90% of the way to max raid gear by soloing faction dailies. Now you choose - spend 40 hours per week for the next 23 months getting that remaining 10-20% of the way to max raid gear, or just cancel account, play other games for 23 months, buy next xpac, and get better gear with the first 10-15 quests than if you would have raided endlessly for the last 23 months. That's WoW. On a per hour basis, playing more than what it takes to get to first tier faction gear of new xpac is a waste of time that will become quite evident about an hour into the next xpac, when green quest drops will be twice as good as the Purple Sword of Uberness you spent 5 months, countless gold (on repairs), and more frustration than you can count trying to get. That's been WoW since The Burning Crusade. OH yeah, and the other treat about that freaking game....every xpac, and even the occasional major patch...look for the class you play to get a total overhaul to their mechanics because some guild killed a raid boss in a way Blizzard didn't anticipate, thus requiring a whole mechanic change to make sure the game stays "balanced."

Bringing WoW to an AO thread is like referencing elementary school during a discussion on graduate school.

[Traderjill]

And to the person who brought up WoW and any new patch....LMAO.

Bringing WoW to an AO thread is like referencing elementary school during a discussion on graduate school.

I disagree with you on this. I brought up wow in simple terms of the fact that I log in to do a raid there and have fun.. I log in to AO to do a raid and I do not.

Whether a game is perceived to be fun has a lot to do with what an individual enjoys doing.

I personally enjoy raiding and doing content with other players on a regular basis. For someone like me, WoW is a breath of fresh air. Raids are fun/challenging (i never raided pre MoP so I'm sure they are easier/dumbed down in comparison.. but I don't care.. they're still fun for me now). I'm able to log in and get groups with my guild OR get groups via a LF raid/LF Group interface OR I can spam for people to join for a group in Trade Channel (WoW's version of OOC) or i can use an external 3rd party website like openraid.us to get groups. Regardless of the method, I can log in to game at any time of the day and night and do what I enjoy doing most in MMO's (raiding and playing with other people) so its all good to me Does WoW have the complexity that AO has to equip gear? Heck no.. and in that regard it is similar to comparing an elementary school and grad school. All other aspects of the game (that I play), however rate differently when comparing the two.

Now in regards to leveling (getting back on topic).. I have yet to level in a game and find it not grindy. I'll be perfectly honest. At this point in my 'gaming career', anything less than me having a max level of 'whatever' in the game so I can go raid is pretty much me just going through the motions to get to what I want to do in a MMO (raiding). The only way there would be an exception to this is if a game had true valuable raiding at all level ranges. A friend indicated GW2 wasn't a grindy leveling experience but I didn't like the game from start so i'll have to take their word for it (tried it on a free play weekend and it wasn't fun for me).

That being said, I go back to what I stated about AO and the diversity amongs professions. If I could go back to the days where I played a toon and had to know wth I was doing in order for the team to be successful then I'd have fun leveling. As someone that level a MP and a trader... it was a BLAST using my toolset to do things. People complained about the MP mezz pet but I used to find creative ways to get it to work as effective crowd control (assuming someone in team wasn't hitting the cc'd mob). And my trader, at mid-levels could give a non-CHing doc a run for their money when it came to heals and contributing to the survivability of the team.

[patrick187]

I disagree with you on this. I brought up wow in simple terms of the fact that I log in to do a raid there and have fun.. I log in to AO to do a raid and I do not.

Whether a game is perceived to be fun has a lot to do with what an individual enjoys doing.

I personally enjoy raiding and doing content with other players on a regular basis. For someone like me, WoW is a breath of fresh air. Raids are fun/challenging (i never raided pre MoP so I'm sure they are easier/dumbed down in comparison.. but I don't care.. they're still fun for me now). I'm able to log in and get groups with my guild OR get groups via a LF raid/LF Group interface OR I can spam for people to join for a group in Trade Channel (WoW's version of OOC) or i can use an external 3rd party website like openraid.us to get groups. Regardless of the method, I can log in to game at any time of the day and night and do what I enjoy doing most in MMO's (raiding and playing with other people) so its all good to me Does WoW have the complexity that AO has to equip gear? Heck no.. and in that regard it is similar to comparing an elementary school and grad school. All other aspects of the game (that I play), however rate differently when comparing the two.

Now in regards to leveling (getting back on topic).. I have yet to level in a game and find it not grindy. I'll be perfectly honest. At this point in my 'gaming career', anything less than me having a max level of 'whatever' in the game so I can go raid is pretty much me just going through the motions to get to what I want to do in a MMO (raiding). The only way there would be an exception to this is if a game had true valuable raiding at all level ranges. A friend indicated GW2 wasn't a grindy leveling experience but I didn't like the game from start so i'll have to take their word for it (tried it on a free play weekend and it wasn't fun for me).

That being said, I go back to what I stated about AO and the diversity amongs professions. If I could go back to the days where I played a toon and had to know wth I was doing in order for the team to be successful then I'd have fun leveling. As someone that level a MP and a trader... it was a BLAST using my toolset to do things. People complained about the MP mezz pet but I used to find creative ways to get it to work as effective crowd control (assuming someone in team wasn't hitting the cc'd mob). And my trader, at mid-levels could give a non-CHing doc a run for their money when it came to heals and contributing to the survivability of the team.

I just don't understand not being able to raid in AO. In an org, there are raiding opportunites out the wazoo, and judging just by the last couple nights on Neutnet, it doesn't seem like there's a lack of PUG stuff going on. WoW with MoP finally got around to semi-on demand raid content like AO has had since AI went live (and sorta since SL introduced pocketbosses), but that is a recent development and really they have 5-6 raid zones viable in any given xpac. In an org of just 12 like minded people in AO however, you could raid all manner of content every day and be hard pressed to run out anytime soon.

I think these games boil down to finding like minded people. I found a PVM org that is really helpful and friendly, so AO is a lot more fun than WoW has been since I can't even remember. And FunCom might be slow on fixing things, but at least I don't log in and find all my class mechanics changed like I did every two years (max) in WoW.

I don't think any game can make leveling "fun" all the way through. In any game, even the "no levels" games like Secret Wars, there's a grind. Some grind, somewhere, must be done to advance your character. At some point, whatever that grind is will stop being fun unless the people around you ARE fun. If you don't know fun people in AO and do know them in WoW, then yeah, WoW wins for fun. IMHO, I find a better brand of people in AO than I ever did in WoW, and that makes the game more fun for me. Am I necessarily looking forward to more than one or two level/ai_level/research grinds? Uhm, no, not really. But AO is cool, my org is cool, and when I am online, it's mostly fun.

You're right about playing whatever is most fun for you. And obviously more people agree with your take on WoW than my take on AO. But the two games aren't really all that comparable minus being generally in the same PC gaming genre of "MMO".