Recover AO's leveling experience!

[aramsunat]

i almost sent a long suggestion then I realized: you need to fix the population problem first. People cant level the challenging way, they are sometimes forced to invite OSTs and kiters to progress, otherwise they would just sit somewhere all day doing nothing. I mean... good luck levelling a team of poorly equipped (newbie) 4 lvl 100s without a healer. Too weak to beat hecklers and progressing to 110 would take a week with tiigs

[boxcar88]

I have talked with many people, many, many people on this subject. While the fact that Funcom has to contribute something to fix this is absolute, we have to remember that WE are anarchy online. We have as big of a part in helping it grow that Funcom does. The whole goal of this movement is to bring to light that new people are suffering. If when we decide to level a toon, our first thought is NOT time to find an NT, or time to log my pocket. But instead to think about leveling and helping someone with you along the way. We believe that would in itself be a huge step. Wether your stance against power leveling is for it or against it. You cannot deny that if you do not know a vast amount about AO, it will not benefit the player in the end.

[Esssch]

You must not be capable of reading joined dates or remembering that people can play for years before bothering to activate a forum account.

You must also be an Atlantean. Most of the people I play with regularly are aware that I'm one of the most terrible and cynical people you're likely to meet in the game.

The fact that I'm even trying to take a positive stance in this topic at all says a lot about how f*cked up this whole situation has become, in a general sense not just on the topic of what the OP is talking about.

FC don't get out of this either. Takes at least 2 sides to tango.

Forum join dates are misleading, I agree. Exactly why I didn't go off of yours. You can ask anyone on these forums that's been around more than a couple months what I'm like. I guarantee you most will either say I'm a troll or that I'm extremely pessimistic.

Atlantean vs Rimor is so 6 months ago. Get with the times.

I provided a viable suggestion earlier (new dungeons aimed at teams of 1-2 at higher levels and from 100-130) that you guys could use as a torch to carry forth into the darkness, and yet all I see is this thread harking back to the "golden age" of 2005 and an org recruitment thread. I don't see any new suggestions in the Game Suggestions subforum. I can come up with some more suggestions if you'd like? Rebalancing the HP of non-raid mobs from 120-250, to make soloing viable. Armor sets from questing every so often (say 50 levels? 25?), from quests that are actually soloable, not like the Tier quests. A reworking of the XP needed for each level from 140-220, current values are too high. Rebalance professions, make every profession useful in PvM from 1-220, not NTs and Crats until 160, any 220 until 220, then Crats, Solds, Doc at 220.

[Ahndracorvid]

I provided a viable suggestion earlier (new dungeons aimed at teams of 1-2 at higher levels and from 100-130) that you guys could use as a torch to carry forth into the darkness, and yet all I see is this thread harking back to the "golden age" of 2005 and an org recruitment thread. I don't see any new suggestions in the Game Suggestions subforum.

Because the Game Suggestions forum is mostly used for suggestions that require some action on FC or the dev team's part to implement.

I get the impression the OP is trying to address the issue from the players' side of the fence. They can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Esssch]

Because the Game Suggestions forum is mostly used for suggestions that require some action on FC or the dev team's part to implement.

FC don't get out of this either. Takes at least 2 sides to tango.

While the fact that Funcom has to contribute something to fix this is absolute, we have to remember that WE are anarchy online. We have as big of a part in helping it grow that Funcom does.

wat

[Ahndracorvid]

I think you missed the point of my post. And/or didn't read the latter half of the text you quoted from the OP.

[viperuws]

I have only joined 1 ely heck kite team due to me refusing to pay for the service.

While not ideal, I tend to OST with my agent fp doc and let others join my team. People will experience death when my agent's doc runs out.(happens once per run usually when I get distracted.) But at least this way people will realize the more they help, the faster it goes.

I am not against kite teams because even when I am forming my own team, often times I can only find 1 or 2 people to team with. The weekend is usually a different story.

One thing I rarely see people do or advertise is the ely catacomb quest. It is fun to explore a temple for the first time even with a high level and it gets you 8 levels fairly quick.

[Edvvin]

According to your 220 thread, you started in 2005. You're misinformed. Hecklers have been kited since long before you started playing. Go look up some 2004-2005 threads in the NT forums about ely hecklers.

This "initiative" is doomed to fail. MMO (and most other video game) players will 99% of the time take the path of least resistance. There will always be those people who are sadomasochists and will torture themselves with needless "challenges". The reason there used to be normal heckler teams was because there were too many people for kite hill to support. Now, there are too many people for kite hill to support, but not enough to support regular groups. Ado/Pen used to be used for leveling, when there weren't inf mishes and leveling in inf was entirely grinding mobs with a crat for XP perks near incarnator. People still used Ado/Pen for leveling once inf mishes came out, though Pen dropped in popularity rapidly, because the grind from 200-220 took so long already that you'd want all 205+ players to make the missions faster. Now, a single 220 and random 210-219s can tear through a mission faster than most groups could back then, due to powercreep, so they don't mind bringing a low level or 2 if they can't fill with 205+.

The difference between your nostalgia-laden view of the past and today is primarily powercreep and dropping population levels. When I leveled an alt through Ado in 2005/2006ish, it was expected that you'd find someone to replace you if you left a heck team, and it wasn't remotely difficult to find a replacement unless it was the middle of the night for everyone except Australia. Every heckler spot used to be taken, both Clan and Omni side. You'd get a team together, check all the spots, and end up having to kill whirling rocks.

But none of this was fun. It's not fun running back and forth killing rocks over the same 100m stretch for 20 hours of gametime so that you can do the same thing, but in a new 100m stretch. People use kiting and OSTs as a way to level efficiently while only having 2 people stare at the same 100m stretch, instead of an entire team. If you truly want to "recover" the AO leveling experience, then recommend ways for FC to change things. The RK dungeon XP change has been a definite step in the right direction, now go suggest new dungeons for higher levels, since IS was only "active" for less than a year after release.

As for thinking back to when I was new, you definitely don't want to go there. Back when you'd grind mobs on RK (bulls near bridge in Galway, shadows near pipes/cave in Pleasant Meadows, etc), then "team" mishes at higher levels, except they weren't implemented. Sitting around Tir south gate or Home pyramid waiting for groups to form and show up, copying mission keys to everyone, everyone having AC holes in their armor, dedicated healers being required to level up.

TL;DR: Nostalgia was better back in the day.

I know kiting was around. What I'm saying is that at the time, real teams existed that had a main tank and a healer. Pockets and kiters were a luxury. By the time I was leveling this incarnation of Ed I had more pocket teams than normal ones. In fact, I had few if any and most tanks were powerleveled enfos with outdated gear that couldn't survive anyway. You had to outright ask an enfo before getting them from LFT if they could tank. A problem previously not had.

In short - kiters and pockets went from luxury to primary.

[Damon7]

I'd have to say my 150 Agent that ended up more on BS than anything else. God it was fun taking on three toons or more and comming out alive. Watching as they though core was empty and then getting slaughtered.

Ah, the memories...

[boxcar88]

I'd have to say my 150 Agent that ended up more on BS than anything else. God it was fun taking on three toons or more and comming out alive. Watching as they though core was empty and then getting slaughtered.

Ah, the memories...

think you got the wrong thread my man.

Guys please do not forget, if you read this topic and agree with the movement please reply in support. even if it just with "bump".

[Eventsbyjill]

Interesting project, and I hope it does well

I just want to present a slightly different point of view which is moreso a cross-mix between a few schools of thought.

Where I stand on leveling (started the game in early 2004):

1. The grind has always been a horrible grind, even in 2004 with tons of people to level with. I have no nostalgic viewpoint that killing the same thing over and over and over again was somehow fun.

2. Said grind is even worse today in comparison to the leveling experience you have in other games (i.e. a combination of quest driven leveling/exploration and dungeon grinding for rarer/stronger gear). This, more so than anything, is the reason why even those brand new to AO flock to the same fast-track leveling methods that are being used by vets that have played for years. I guess this ties in with what I said in #1. It wasn't fun then, it won't magically become fun now.

3. The issue in AO, from my vantage point, isn't that people are afk leveling on kite hill or using OST. The issue is that, as a result, people doing things this way are losing out on the opportunity to learn how to efficiently play their class. AO went from a game where people were knowledgeable about their class 'along the way' to one where people wait until 220 to even bother getting essential nanos. This is what was truly lost in the game. My nostalgia does kick-in, in this regards. I can recall having teams that didn't consist of a tradition enforcer/doctor combination and having fun utilizing the very interesting toolsets provided by AO professions. I can't count the number of times where a Trader served as primary healer in an ely heck team, or the tank was a MA, Shade or Soldier instead. AO's professions are set up in such a way where the game doesn't just start at 220. You get your toolset early on, for the most part, and there are sooo many interesting ways that different team comps can play out an encounter. The game has lost that sense of adventure to the safety of the kite/ost teams.

All of that being said, I think what you're trying to do is great. It takes all kinds of players to keep a game going and if you are providing a haven for those that don't want to fast-track, then that's more happy people that'll continue to play/have fun.

Good luck with what you're doing and try not to take the feedback/comments too personally

[FoxFine]

I can say, as someone who doesn't usually enjoy joining societies in MMOs, this one is great. When I was asked to join, I wasn't really looking for that side of this game. However, ever since I have, I've enjoyed this game THAT MUCH MORE (which I thought was impossible- this game already had me addicted like Brittaney Spears to Redbull+Cigarettes).

It's not just about the leveling factor (although that is nice)- it's about having a group of people that know and understand the needs of n00bs (be them fr00b or sl00b). I have been helped SO much by this org- I only hope I can see the day where I can help n00bs like myself in this org, the way they did me. And one of THE MOST annoying things about Ao, as well as the beloved things, is that this game is huge and old. And over it's course, many things have changed many times. So simply "googling" something isn't enough- and even the search here in the forums is a little broke (ever not find a post you SWEAR you knew existed yesterday?)

I wouldn't say this org will fail- that's a bit... much. I will say it may not ever get to the scope of some of the ones that have been around since forever, but this will reach the people it is supposed to. By not pressuring n00bs and taking the time to explain abbreviations, this is an org I am more than happy to not only be a part of, but I have a natural urge to see it grow- which is usually not me.

Take it or leave it- o' course! But if you get bored and wanna make an alt- join just to show some support. There is a reason AO has been around for 12, I'd like to help make it stay around for another 12 years, anyway I can.

Hope to see some new faces! Don't be shy- say Hiiiii!

-Fox Fine XoXo

[Bobbi]

I used to be one of those aforementioned kiters, and I found that either I was kiting, or I actually tried to find teams to do it the slow way, because it felt like I was PLAYING something.

Mind you much of the actual gameplay of AO is when you AREN'T leveling, and that is fantastic because instead of the game setting goals for you, you set goals for yourself.

Also, the same people you leveled with doing ely hecks the slow way are also going to be the people you can count on to be there when you start doing pen/inf missions, which I think OP is doing a great job in promoting in the long run.

While I was happy to carry folks through Inf missions, I appreciated it a bit more (and lasted longer) with people who looked like they made an effort to have a chat and participate.

[boxcar88]

Update on projects status:

We started as level 1's inviting only people that asked or that we encountered in zones. We currently have about 10 people around tl4. We want more we want to be able to run multiple teams in each leveling zone! Come contribute to our project. Tl3-tl5 are the most desired, but we still take all levels.

Thanks
Firevade

[Raggy]

Personally, I think it's a mixture of things.

I think it's more a case of skipping as much of the tedious and unchanging Heckler grind as humanly possible. Sure you can go out there and kill spiders at Scoop in Ely then move to Statics in Scheol, maybe even kill spirits in Ado. But the fact remains that the game is now so top heavy, there is very little reason to stay at certain levels unless it's for a PvP reason.

So, people plough through the levels, because they want to be 220 and because they don't want to do the same thing they may have done 10, 20 times before, which is mindlessly run back and forth for a few hours killing the same unchanging monster types.

It's a good idea, but if it's not Hecklers, it's no the the best XP/hr and so, people are not interested, regardless of how 'different' the experience is. People want 220, the levelling grind sucks, players cannot change that, only FC.

[FoxFine]

Hm, I can see your point. However, I don't think FC is the only one that can change it.

Like many things in life, don't take someone else's word for it- experience it for yourself! Or even better- contribute and help manifest the org's dream!

Time never changes, yet everything changes in time!

Peace&Light
-Fox Fine XoXo

[Raggy]

Hm, I can see your point. However, I don't think FC is the only one that can change it.

Like many things in life, don't take someone else's word for it- experience it for yourself! Or even better- contribute and help manifest the org's dream!

Time never changes, yet everything changes in time!

Peace&Light
-Fox Fine XoXo

I've been around fair amount of time and I can honestly tell you I've tried levelling in nearly every way conceivable, but the matter remains of the fact, not everyone else is like that, you cannot force people to have a different way of thinking unless there is some perceived benefit.

Telling people "Forget Hecklers, come kill Scoop Spiders!" will do nothing but make them ask "Is the XP better than Hecks?" and because it's not, they won't, because they want to be 220 on that alt.

Don't get me wrong, the initiative is good, for new players, but for anyone with 220s already, it will do nothing since the reason we roll alts is for a specific reason and we don't like to sit around waiting for teams or waste time.

[boxcar88]

Funcom knows that heckler grind cannot simply go away. We know that people will still take the path of least resistance. This movement is not to force people to stop playing the game the way they want. It is to raise awareness. Yes, new players will grind it out. Because that is the only way for them usually. What about when the vets are all trying to find a kiter and the 3-4 new players dont know what to do? or cant do. The past few days our org has been the only real team at mortiigs. and not because of lack of players. I see 5-10 people on lft... guess what for. and then theres the 1 or 2 that say XP of any kind(just wanna level) or something to that nature.

Then oh man.. tangent here. gonna keep it short.

Then you get the guy who doesnt want to gear up b/c hes just going to kite hill. and you think he is gonna contribute anything to a team when hes 50 levels outdated.

Again this isnt about whats right and whats wrong. Be aware of the lack of support for new players. These guys need the community.

[Oljalyn]

Having just recently gotten back to the game after I think about 8 years of absence, I applaud this initiative!

Reading some posts on the forums when I try to search for help, is like reading code with abbreviations, places, new content etc. I feel like a complete noob again

Would have loved to join, but my characters are all Omni... Wishing the org the best of luck though

[Pomidor]

I support it.

I have leveled dozens of chars, few on AFK mode, but I always find if entertaining to twink cahracter and actually play it. What newcomer can get from ost teams, if he sees only screen and somone else is playing and gaining levels for him? Game in this fashion may seem to be boring, thats why so many players that have tried AO left after short peroid. Reading posts on various forums and under YT viedos I have come to thinking, that half of them hate AO for feature, that is heavli explored by veterans.

I have still twinks for various purposes in PVM, which I use to play from time to time in old fashion. Mainly, to show power of my character/twink to new ones and to enjoy what I have made. Secondly, I like to help too!