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Thread: Recover AO's leveling experience!

  1. #1

    Recover AO's leveling experience!

    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    (Sitting afk on kite hill, and going to Inferno at level 160 are refered to as Power leveling in the following statement)

    We(AO Recovery Project) are starting a movement, to spur people back into leveling the proper way. "Kite hill" and the fact that no one levels in Adonis or Penumbra is going to kill our beloved game. Now "power leveling" has been around for a long time, and AO was booming during that time. We believe that before the server merge, the population was flat out too small to find teams in some areas(most times of the day). Even to the point where "power leveling" was sometimes the only way. Now that the servers have merged, we have the population but... everyone still waits for kite teams? Everyone still sits at Ergo begging for Inf teams at 160? We(the community) has to fight change this. While yes, many of us have a "Outside tank" to dual log, or know someone. Think for a second about 'X' years ago when you were new. So many new players are joining as of late. Their AO experience is almost ruined around level 100ish. They are being forced into an environment where they flat out do not have the means of leveling. We have to change this afk leveling style, or our game's player base will wither away.

    (this is not an org recruitment, this is a movement)

    If you want to join the org that is starting the movement...

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...04#post6140604

    Please reply to this thread if you agree with our movement. And most importantly start putting the ideology into effect!
    Last edited by boxcar88; Jun 21st, 2013 at 23:16:32.

  2. #2

    Thumbs up

    I think this is a very good initiative, and fully support this. I hate that people are always asking for kite teams of some sort, or NT's looking for outside tanks. This is by far best/most viable leveling option, there are tons of other choices...

    For people wondering where to level there are plenty of posts 'n guides, both for teaming and solo. See here for a great guide on where to solo level. And here for a list of most SL quests with xp rewards (many have daily xp rewards (meaning a lot of xp

    Also this is an issue with new players not being able to learn things by doing, i.e pulling, tanking etc is all gone if you are in a OST/kite team and just standing around.. A lot more than not learning to tank is at stake for new players, but also for experienced players it is much more enjoyable to do 'old school' teams where you run off to a place to kill something or doing missions or whatever the likes of the team
    Lommelun - Beaurecrat, Neofexa - Fixer, Stikkpille - Doctor, Shoppegal - Trader, Klossmajor - Enforcer, Lodottis - NT

    "Don't drink and twink." - Dredd

  3. #3
    Just joined today... only Organization I'm interested in (fr00b2sl00b in 2 months). Anarchy is a game that really deserves to be enjoyed. It might be hard to get into, but it's worth it!

    I look forward to seeing other new people join- both fr00b and subscribers! If ya see me, say hi!

    -Fox Fine XoXo
    They play it safe, are quick to assassinate what they do not understand. They move in packs, ingesting more and more fear with every act of hate on one another. They feel most comfortable in groups; less guilt to swallow. They are us. This is what we have become- afraid to respect the individual. A single person or event or circumstance can move one to change, to love ourself- to evolve.
    -Ms E. Badu

  4. #4
    I very strongly approve of everything stated here. All of it. Back when I started playing was before pockets and kiters were everywhere and I have to say its far less dull to have an actual team. The one thing I like about inf is when people end up having to build a team around what they have to work with and making it work. That was the fun of those old times. Actual danger. Knowing how important it was for people to fulfill their role in order for the team to survive with their XP in tact. The process of leveling is part of the fun of the game and its been made dull and boring. I recently logged an old level 8 toon that I hadn't played in years or even activiated, just to relive the fun of running the Subway with friends. I enjoyed it. I even enjoyed meeping as the team wiped with the knowledge that slowing down meant death and a slow, low RS run from reclaim. I missed it. And I'll be doing it again soon. If I can help your cause somehow, I certainly will.

  5. #5
    Good luck with the initiative. You gonna need it.

  6. #6
    I am in, starting a doc


    Healforafeel
    Freesamples 220/26/70 Soldier
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Healforafeel · Traderskills · Nrog1 · Joeygreco · Getmypoint

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Edvvin View Post
    I very strongly approve of everything stated here. All of it. Back when I started playing was before pockets and kiters were everywhere and I have to say its far less dull to have an actual team.
    According to your 220 thread, you started in 2005. You're misinformed. Hecklers have been kited since long before you started playing. Go look up some 2004-2005 threads in the NT forums about ely hecklers.

    This "initiative" is doomed to fail. MMO (and most other video game) players will 99% of the time take the path of least resistance. There will always be those people who are sadomasochists and will torture themselves with needless "challenges". The reason there used to be normal heckler teams was because there were too many people for kite hill to support. Now, there are too many people for kite hill to support, but not enough to support regular groups. Ado/Pen used to be used for leveling, when there weren't inf mishes and leveling in inf was entirely grinding mobs with a crat for XP perks near incarnator. People still used Ado/Pen for leveling once inf mishes came out, though Pen dropped in popularity rapidly, because the grind from 200-220 took so long already that you'd want all 205+ players to make the missions faster. Now, a single 220 and random 210-219s can tear through a mission faster than most groups could back then, due to powercreep, so they don't mind bringing a low level or 2 if they can't fill with 205+.

    The difference between your nostalgia-laden view of the past and today is primarily powercreep and dropping population levels. When I leveled an alt through Ado in 2005/2006ish, it was expected that you'd find someone to replace you if you left a heck team, and it wasn't remotely difficult to find a replacement unless it was the middle of the night for everyone except Australia. Every heckler spot used to be taken, both Clan and Omni side. You'd get a team together, check all the spots, and end up having to kill whirling rocks.

    But none of this was fun. It's not fun running back and forth killing rocks over the same 100m stretch for 20 hours of gametime so that you can do the same thing, but in a new 100m stretch. People use kiting and OSTs as a way to level efficiently while only having 2 people stare at the same 100m stretch, instead of an entire team. If you truly want to "recover" the AO leveling experience, then recommend ways for FC to change things. The RK dungeon XP change has been a definite step in the right direction, now go suggest new dungeons for higher levels, since IS was only "active" for less than a year after release.

    As for thinking back to when I was new, you definitely don't want to go there. Back when you'd grind mobs on RK (bulls near bridge in Galway, shadows near pipes/cave in Pleasant Meadows, etc), then "team" mishes at higher levels, except they weren't implemented. Sitting around Tir south gate or Home pyramid waiting for groups to form and show up, copying mission keys to everyone, everyone having AC holes in their armor, dedicated healers being required to level up.

    TL;DR: Nostalgia was better back in the day.

  8. #8
    I wish you luck in your movement but have run out of professions to roll. I'll probably make more froobs when the NPE and engine are out, in the event the game actually receives the marketing campaign it needs/deserves and we see an influx of new players.
    :E

  9. #9
    Fantastic post Esssch. Your missing the main point. Taking the path of least resistance is not possible for all of the new people. And for those of us who are so selfish to say I can log my 3 accounts and level myself from 1-220 no issue, are in turn killing AO. The movement is to help people realize that what you are supporting is not possible for new players. We need to play the MMO as an MMO. Help out the other players.

  10. #10
    Also I would like to point out that for some of us kite teams aren't any more fun than bashing rock monsters without an OST. Also Ely drama gets rreeeeaaaaaally damn tiresome.

    That's why I went back to RK as soon as I hit 125 and leveled with froobs in IS until I was at least out of the leveling range of Elysium. I had a better time and made more friends. The recent changes to RK XP only give me more reason to continue doing this.
    :E

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by boxcar88 View Post
    Fantastic post Esssch. Your missing the main point. Taking the path of least resistance is not possible for all of the new people. And for those of us who are so selfish to say I can log my 3 accounts and level myself from 1-220 no issue, are in turn killing AO. The movement is to help people realize that what you are supporting is not possible for new players. We need to play the MMO as an MMO. Help out the other players.
    Nt crat and 4 leeches! Boom.
    Dysfunktion.
    Trypants.
    Setup.
    One bright day in the middle of the night,
    Two dead boys got up to fight.
    Back to back they faced each other,
    Drew their swords, and Shot each other.
    A deaf policeman heard the noise,
    He came and killed those two dead boys.
    If you don't believe this lie is true... ask the Blind Man, He saw it too.

  12. #12
    I don't really think there's anything wrong with having a faster way to level for people who are tired of leveling the "normal" way. I mean, hecklers are sort of not the way to do it, but whatever. But, guess it's nice to have a group of people that anyone could join, if they feel like doing it the "normal/old fashioned" way.

    I'd offer you credits to help you start out, but I'm taking it that'd be against your "ideology." If it isn't, feel free to correct me, and I could hand out some stuff to the newer players.
    "Remember me? The one you got your technique from?"
    The worst possible response you could give when asked for proof of your statements.

  13. #13
    Why are there levels in AO? For the people who seem to oppose the idea, is your ideal game having an instant endgame char? Sure ive leveled 10+ chars to inferno, yea I get tired of it. But how awesome was that first one. Even the second one. Thats why you play AO. We need to help give that to the new community. If I logged into a game and I found out that the only way to level around 100-160 was to A) sit afk on a hill B) pay for it. You better believe I would be uninstalling that game. This is a selfless movement. If you wanna go give out billions of credits to players so they can buy into the failing system go ahead. Perhaps it will reduce the inflation some when they quit the game out of boredom.

  14. #14
    I don't really know if I somehow came off as criticizing your movement, but I do apologize if I did.

    Anyway, in short, yes, leveling is dreadful for me. It isn't selfish to want to level fast. You may find it fun to level, but I do not. I do acknowledge that people do have fun leveling, and I don't really think it's a bad thing. This is why I offered to help give credits/items to new players, to ease some of the confusion for them.

    If you don't want to take my credits, that's fine, but being asinine about it won't put people's faith in you. Hope your project, if that's an appropriate word, goes well.
    Last edited by wonderland; Jun 22nd, 2013 at 13:39:27.
    "Remember me? The one you got your technique from?"
    The worst possible response you could give when asked for proof of your statements.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by boxcar88 View Post
    Fantastic post Esssch. Your missing the main point. Taking the path of least resistance is not possible for all of the new people. And for those of us who are so selfish to say I can log my 3 accounts and level myself from 1-220 no issue, are in turn killing AO. The movement is to help people realize that what you are supporting is not possible for new players. We need to play the MMO as an MMO. Help out the other players.
    We were all new players once. The path of least resistance changes player to player. New players might get lucky and get into a kite team, though they'll be horribly undergeared, it's not too difficult to gear up. The hardest part is AI armor, which isn't necessary. As for the leveling itself, there are many ways to level solo if that's what they choose, Phyxr wrote an excellent guide on it before dailies. And while they're doing that they can sit on LFT for kiting or inf. I've gotten quite a few inf teams as a 160-180ish enf, without people knowing who I am, so it does happen that low levels get invited.

    The 100-160 stretch is abysmal, but not due to a lack of regular heckler teams. 100+ leveling has been abysmal since 2001. The best way to fix that would be to provide other methods of XP, such as a dungeon between Smuggler's Den and Inner Sanctum in difficulty and size that gives competitive XP and encourages grouping. As it is, if you're not twinking, the game really starts at 219/220. Every dungeon before 200 can be solo'd (with the exception of S7? I haven't heard of that being solo'd. And IS can be solo'd by 220s, but once you get past the 1st floor it's probably too tough for any except the most twinked 200s). I'd prefer people to level to TL7 and join the level-range where most of the players are, so that they can join the "Massively" Multiplayer Online part of AO.

    Overall, it's cute that you think post-merge population in anything but Euro primetime is remotely healthy. Even Euro primetime, which at the moment is magnitudes more populated than any other time ingame, doesn't come close to prior population levels, especially not back to the 2005-2007-era you seem to be basing this "revival" on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahndracorvid View Post
    Also I would like to point out that for some of us kite teams aren't any more fun than bashing rock monsters without an OST. Also Ely drama gets rreeeeaaaaaally damn tiresome.

    That's why I went back to RK as soon as I hit 125 and leveled with froobs in IS until I was at least out of the leveling range of Elysium. I had a better time and made more friends. The recent changes to RK XP only give me more reason to continue doing this.
    The thing about kite teams vs killing hecklers normally is, even though they're both extremely boring, one is much faster and allows some members of the team to go AFK and do other things, be that going somewhere IRL, taking a nap/shower, or just browsing the internet.

    Are there actually teams in IS these days? I was in there a couple weeks ago, post-XP change, to help someone out with the daily (because they were bored of Mantis, I guess) and we saw 1 other person.

    Quote Originally Posted by boxcar88 View Post
    But how awesome was that first one. Even the second one. Thats why you play AO. We need to help give that to the new community.
    They were terrible grinds, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

  16. #16
    I've always enjoyed leveling the "old-fashioned" way. Some great times I've had are teams in ToTW (oh those trains), teams at Ely hecks (no OST, just the team and those mean hecklers), and so on. I'm all for helping out new players go that leveling route, if that's what they want.

    I think that the offers of help you are getting, including Wonderland's offer of credits/stuff to help new players get started, are great.

    I was fortunate in that when I started AO, my son helped me out. He explained things to me, gave me some omni-carb armor (and later taught me how to make it), gave me enough credits to get my first set of implants (and taught me what implants were), gave me a three slot belt and ncu (and explained how important ncu was), bought my first smg (and told me why Fixers liked SMGs), showed me where to buy my nanos, and then stood outside the subway as I entered it for the first time. He did just enough to help me get started, but not so much that I couldn't continue on for myself. He did it perfectly.

    So now I do my best to return the favor. It's not unusual for me to give newbies some creds to get started, a med suit, some carb, a low QL three slot belt and memories, sometimes a nice little starter weapon, and so on. This always goes along with a trip to the basic shop implant and nano kiosk, links to the AO Profession Academies and New Arrivals forums, and a link to AO Universe.

    I see your Org thread in the recruitment forum. I probably won't be making a new character in the near future. Might you be open to some old-timers joining your guest chat? AO can be overwhelming, and one of the most important things for new players to get is information. If you are allowing people in guest chat, I'd be happy to pop in now and then to give a hand.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    The thing about kite teams vs killing hecklers normally is, even though they're both extremely boring, one is much faster and allows some members of the team to go AFK and do other things, be that going somewhere IRL, taking a nap/shower, or just browsing the internet.

    Are there actually teams in IS these days? I was in there a couple weeks ago, post-XP change, to help someone out with the daily (because they were bored of Mantis, I guess) and we saw 1 other person.
    That's the thing. Some of us find the need to go AFK or alt-tab in order to stop ourselves getting bored sitting on a hill while the NT does his thing frustrating. If I wanted to not play the game I would... well, not play the game. You mentioned speed: I would like to see FC make it so that hecklers are NOT the automatic fastest way of leveling by bringing other sources of XP brought more in line with it somehow. Whether they do that by nerfing hecklers or boosting everything else is another discussion altogether, but it needs doing.

    In short, the solution to "boring leveling methods" is for them somehow to be made less boring. Variety is a good place to start. Get people away from hecklers.

    And last time I was in IS during the peak period in my timezone there was a team of 4 froobs and 1 paybie on the 1st floor. After you get sick of grinding there you can change it up with RK missions. If you have expansions, after you've leveled a bit you can also do DR.

    Variety is the ****e of life. It also makes gameplay more interesting.

    EDIT: You know what, screw it. I'm just gonna quote myself. Again.
    Last edited by Ahndracorvid; Jun 22nd, 2013 at 20:19:36.
    :E

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahndracorvid View Post
    That's the thing. Some of us find the need to go AFK or alt-tab in order to stop ourselves getting bored sitting on a hill while the NT does his thing frustrating. If I wanted to not play the game I would... well, not play the game. You mentioned speed: I would like to see FC make it so that hecklers are NOT the automatic fastest way of leveling by bringing other sources of XP brought more in line with it somehow. Whether they do that by nerfing hecklers or boosting everything else is another discussion altogether, but it needs doing.

    In short, the solution to "boring leveling methods" is for them somehow to be made less boring. Variety is a good place to start. Get people away from hecklers.
    I feel like maybe you should read my posts again, since I already said this.

  19. #19
    I read what you wrote. The tone was negative to the point where it looked almost like you're essentially saying to the OP, "Your good intentions are pointless because people are stupid, so you should stop trying to change them." You pointed out a lot of negatives but didn't offer quite as many solutions to the problems (legit though they are) that you brought up.

    I'm trying to offer some. As well as offering the counter argument that there's no harm in the OP trying. Many of us have been there ourselves (and equally as many have burned out). But it's not gonna get any better the day there are none of us left.
    Last edited by Ahndracorvid; Jun 22nd, 2013 at 21:46:41.
    :E

  20. #20
    The real way to make leveling engaging is to offer a sense of accomplishment through the task, or offer secondary rewards for having to kill monsters. The reason the RK leveling experience has always been the most enjoyable is because you can farm gear for yourself while you gain experience. Strictly doing one or the other just feels like a grind. Doing both peels away from part of the monotony of each task slightly, and adds multiple rewards for your effort making you feel good about your time investment.

    Add more dungeons similar to Subway, Foremans, and especially ToTW and leveling would be somewhat enjoyable again.
    Leave "Marinegent" AScar - 220/23/65 Atrox Agent
    Wakeup "Marinesold" Screaming - 220/30/70 Nanomage Soldier
    "Moonmarin" - 220/30/80 Solitus Martial Artist
    "Marinekeep" - 215/18/4x Atrox Keeper
    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

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