Clarification of tower meeping changes

[Anarrina]

The question is regarding the current petition-related policy. The opinions of each person as it relates to the desirability of this policy are not strictly on topic. Since we have heard them amply at this point, please refrain from continuing to comment about it.

[Adva]

Well I simply have one question then: What form of "griefing" is currently considered harassment and therefore potentially an offense that warrants a ban.

[Michizure]

Well I simply have one question then: What form of "griefing" is currently considered harassment and therefore potentially an offense that warrants a ban.

"Griefing" with the sole intent to harass other organizations is harassment. If the intention of a tower attack is determined to be fueled by the need to harass other people/organizations, it is harassment.

For example:
* Person presses Q on a tower and then meeps = Harassment.
* Group initiates an attack on towers and meeps when things start going south = Not Harassment.

If it can be proven that the intentions behind an assault on towers was simply to annoy/harass others, hope you don't get petitioned.

[Adva]

Well that's the thing, how do you prove intent?

[Michizure]

Well that's the thing, how do you prove intent?

Those specifics I am not exactly privy to. My understanding is that in the entire history of Notum Wars, a very, very small amount of people have ever been punished for griefing, and one of the few cases was the inspiration behind my previous example of Q -> Meep -> Repeat.

If you press Q on a tower, do it with the intent to kill the tower(s), not to just cause disruptions.

[Adva]

Well, hypothetically speaking of course.. If a person were to Q a tower with the intent to draw defenders there so others could attack a different site, would that be something warranting a ban?

Also, is there an official FC stance on syncing tower timers? Just wondering.

[Michizure]

Well, hypothetically speaking of course.. If a person were to Q a tower with the intent to draw defenders there so others could attack a different site, would that be something warranting a ban?

As per the verdict of a GM, if this is done as a strategic move, it isn't harassment. Of course, this may be treading closely to the line of harassment, depending on how it's done.

Also, is there an official FC stance on syncing tower timers? Just wondering.

Personally, I disagree with this style of playing. It's a topic I wish to reexamine/review in the future.

As per a GM's recommendation, if you believe you have identified specific cases of this taking place, feel free to /petition it with as many details as possible. e.g. "Player x in Organization y, owner of tower site A in playfield B, is doing so-and-so to manipulate their gas timers." with any and all supporting details/times/players/organizations/etc.

[Gatester]

So it seems that the problem with timer swapping is that it could have been petitioned and possibly resulted in action by a GM had it been reported, similar to how some of the griefing can result in petitions as well.

[Parisss]

Well I'd say a solution doesn't have to be hard.
I agree the meep is part of the fixer toolset, but that doesn't have to be part of his toolset for PvP as well.

Option 1:
In my opinion a simple solution would be giving it the same settings as warps.
You cannot be warped while in fight. Why not do the same to meeping. If fight = no meep, basically if the fixer isn't attacks and he meeps all but the one attacked would be meeped from his team. Do mind if the fixer uses emergency team meep and he can't meep out himself, no-one will be and the fixer is left in fight crippled with 1 hp.

Option 2:
Anti-Meep tower, just like the jamming towers (or give jamming tower that bit too).

Option 3:
Disable meep in 5% and 25%. Deal with the risk you people take and live with it.


Meep in PvP no PvP. If you attack a towersite deal with the fact you might not me able to meep and die. Thats PvP in my opinion. Not to run away scared, because you are afraid you die.


Sure, RUN forrest RUN!

meep is a part of the fixer pvp toolset. meep ganks, meep when **** gets real, meep after running forest running. This thread is full of way too much whine. Nerf 1hb/1he enfs, MR and double/triple and ill trade meep, deal?

[Parisss]

"Griefing" with the sole intent to harass other organizations is harassment. If the intention of a tower attack is determined to be fueled by the need to harass other people/organizations, it is harassment.

For example:
* Person presses Q on a tower and then meeps = Harassment.
* Group initiates an attack on towers and meeps when things start going south = Not Harassment.

If it can be proven that the intentions behind an assault on towers was simply to annoy/harass others, hope you don't get petitioned.

This is well put. Cheers.

Fixers meep when the odds aren't in their favor. Tower attackers meep when a zerg comes, only then do they become griefers. I have been part of plenty of grief teams that fought similar numbers and single defenders until a zerg ran us off. That's AO NW, period. Is insta meep annoying to the zerg? ofc. So is getting wasted by 4 teams when you have a 4 person attack team. BAN ZERG BOTS OH NOES!

I should also point out that I am on clan side atm, and am speaking for NW and fixer health, not the current "winning" side.

[Brampfine]

we ever got the same, u can set the direction to have fun
"catch the fixer"
u can try to kill him with skilled /anon ranged or melee player
or u get the time when he try to did it
or get the time when they do pande and crash there game play.
bla bla bla ever the same and ?

Clan leads
and tower u can get with a lot skilled players the honnor for a period of time
and its nice to have contracts and power from owning tower at every of ur toons.
and after a long not rewarding time it is bored.
then it is time and creds wasting
everygot his own ideas to screw in but there it begins and it ends.

find the direction
i think why wasting time in screwing at bugfree existing content since 6 or 10 years
and once a patch it´s broken.
"some new now" can be helpfull
(we pay long enough)
lure some more creedz pl0x with singin at Steam.
lower monthly sub cost or make them f2p with buying a addon.

ps.
.........engine
i can see it what the engine need at TSW and the most got a desk for cash who let someone dream to have this to drive a better car and they play with 6 frames in high action.
What will happen it let me think with the most AO player with backdoor second hand market laptops.
the same lag/crash show since last 12 years when a zerg of player try to win a fight.
reminds me at Tara killing ld player´s and they logged whitescreened at reclaim with 6 min debuff
and the fried chicken is in 30 seconds in parts of the guys with better hardware and connection.

[Flyingengi]

* Person presses Q on a tower and then meeps = Harassment.

Here's a good one. What if you press Q on a tower and then run/meep and log off. The purpose of this is, of course, to send out the planet-wide message that you attacked. Then you come back an hour+ later and attack again. You will not send out the a planet-wide message this time and the only people that get notified that you attacked is the org you are attacking.

Is this harassment or valid tactics?

[Adva]

As per the verdict of a GM, if this is done as a strategic move, it isn't harassment. Of course, this may be treading closely to the line of harassment, depending on how it's done.

Well, personally, I'm glad to see there's a "line drawn in the sand," even if it's as ambiguous as can be.

Personally, I disagree with this style of playing. It's a topic I wish to reexamine/review in the future.

As per a GM's recommendation, if you believe you have identified specific cases of this taking place, feel free to /petition it with as many details as possible. e.g. "Player x in Organization y, owner of tower site A in playfield B, is doing so-and-so to manipulate their gas timers." with any and all supporting details/times/players/organizations/etc.

I petitioned last night, waited 5+ hours for a GM to answer, only to have them cut me off when I started asking about tower syncing. If you, or any other FC employee wants, I can send you the convo since I saved it. I felt pretty shafted since I could not "report" it, even though FC has to know it's been going on since the merge. Those deleted threads don't get deleted without being read by at least one person.

So it seems that the problem with timer swapping is that it could have been petitioned and possibly resulted in action by a GM had it been reported, similar to how some of the griefing can result in petitions as well.

I really, really hope you're not arguing that timer syncing is "ok" since it wasn't petitioned where as "griefing" was. Syncing has been mentioned both pre-merge and after the merge. Ask Aramus or whatever his name is from Equilibrium, i'm sure he's got his go to tower syncing excuse on tap for you.

we ever got the same, u can set the direction to have fun
"catch the fixer"
u can try to kill him with skilled /anon ranged or melee player
or u get the time when he try to did it
or get the time when they do pande and crash there game play.
bla bla bla ever the same and ?

Clan leads
and tower u can get with a lot skilled players the honnor for a period of time
and its nice to have contracts and power from owning tower at every of ur toons.
and after a long not rewarding time it is bored.
then it is time and creds wasting
everygot his own ideas to screw in but there it begins and it ends.

find the direction
i think why wasting time in screwing at bugfree existing content since 6 or 10 years
and once a patch it´s broken.
"some new now" can be helpfull
(we pay long enough)
lure some more creedz pl0x with singin at Steam.
lower monthly sub cost or make them f2p with buying a addon.

ps.
.........engine
i can see it what the engine need at TSW and the most got a desk for cash who let someone dream to have this to drive a better car and they play with 6 frames in high action.
What will happen it let me think with the most AO player with backdoor second hand market laptops.
the same lag/crash show since last 12 years when a zerg of player try to win a fight.
reminds me at Tara killing ld player´s and they logged whitescreened at reclaim with 6 min debuff
and the fried chicken is in 30 seconds in parts of the guys with better hardware and connection.

Wut?

[Brampfine]

get the attacker to the org/pvp bot notify list and see the singel or multibox zerg logging in.
u know ur victims after a period of active tower pvp.

[Adva]

get the attacker to the org/pvp bot notify list and see the singel or multibox zerg logging in.
u know ur victims after a period of active tower pvp.

So, if I understand you right, you see a toon that's known to attack towers of the opposite faction log on, and you proceed to add his/her name to your notify list, then add known alts so when they log on, you assume they're going to attack your site?

You know this because of their past actions on your towers?

[Brampfine]

yes i did and some other too who own the bots at his own servers
we play this up to 0% side xp
low towers r anti tower flag toys
the tower war cost a player 300m/week in past player populated times.

[Sateenkaari]

As per a GM's recommendation, if you believe you have identified specific cases of this taking place, feel free to /petition it with as many details as possible. e.g. "Player x in Organization y, owner of tower site A in playfield B, is doing so-and-so to manipulate their gas timers." with any and all supporting details/times/players/organizations/etc.

Welcome to the crazy train, where about 90% of the sites open at very same time, where all of our "over the sea"-help from 'murica and such countries aren't "allowed" to help euros, since they are in work!

[kx2]

What if insta-meep would be slower in 25% and less gas, 5-10 seconds for example?
Then it would be fun if someone attacked the fixer while casting it and there would be a chance that meeping fails totally or partially, meaning that someone gets no meep and is left behind.

Anti-meeping tower should make meep slower or jam the meep so it can fail.

Something like this, use your imagination. If it is in fixer toolset, it should be usable, but it should have a risk.

[Toyhazard]

I think we can all agree that everything that michi has said is pretty reasonable and its nice to get an official statement on things after all this time. I just hope the GM's are gonna act by these rules too and not give out warnings/bannings for things that are allowed, like they did in the past.

Here's a good one. What if you press Q on a tower and then run/meep and log off. The purpose of this is, of course, to send out the planet-wide message that you attacked. Then you come back an hour+ later and attack again. You will not send out the a planet-wide message this time and the only people that get notified that you attacked is the org you are attacking.

Is this harassment or valid tactics?

After an hour of not hitting any towers at a field you will get a new attack message. I guess doing it to one field is pretty reasonable but going all over rk doing it to 15 fields at the same time is considered harassment.

[Parisss]

What if insta-meep would be slower in 25% and less gas, 5-10 seconds for example?
Then it would be fun if someone attacked the fixer while casting it and there would be a chance that meeping fails totally or partially, meaning that someone gets no meep and is left behind.

Anti-meeping tower should make meep slower or jam the meep so it can fail.

Something like this, use your imagination. If it is in fixer toolset, it should be usable, but it should have a risk.

Then it wouldn't be meep now would it? Many profs already have slow regular grid nanos, including fixers. Stop trying to nerf one of the fixer's unique tools.