Clarification of tower meeping changes

[Parisss]

Forum whiners are killing this game nearly as bad as FC. Meeping is part of the fixer toolset. You want towers, deal with it. You whiners think the side that's outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 should stand and die so you get your no skill Zerg pvp? Wake up carebears.

[batesy03]

My org has a tower site near the (clan) dreadloch camp in Athen Shire, today Tommykeeper was pulling 2 of the outpost sentries from the base and using them as his bodyguards whilst trying to clear the site. Is this considering harassment also? I sent a petition in, but didn't receive any reply.

[Rurounin]

Forum whiners are killing this game nearly as bad as FC. Meeping is part of the fixer toolset. You want towers, deal with it. You whiners think the side that's outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 should stand and die so you get your no skill Zerg pvp? Wake up carebears.

Did you even read anything mentioned in this thread? :P

[Parisss]

Did you even read anything mentioned in this thread? :P

Yes. Please enlighten me on what I have missed besides "wahhhh we don't like when people hit towers and meep when defenders come".

[Vanillashake]

+1 for towers rotating times though, why that was never implemented originally when EVERYTHING else in the game rotated through the clock throughout the week is bizarre.

[Suicyder]

Well I'd say a solution doesn't have to be hard.
I agree the meep is part of the fixer toolset, but that doesn't have to be part of his toolset for PvP as well.

Option 1:
In my opinion a simple solution would be giving it the same settings as warps.
You cannot be warped while in fight. Why not do the same to meeping. If fight = no meep, basically if the fixer isn't attacks and he meeps all but the one attacked would be meeped from his team. Do mind if the fixer uses emergency team meep and he can't meep out himself, no-one will be and the fixer is left in fight crippled with 1 hp.

Option 2:
Anti-Meep tower, just like the jamming towers (or give jamming tower that bit too).

Option 3:
Disable meep in 5% and 25%. Deal with the risk you people take and live with it.

Yes. Please enlighten me on what I have missed besides "wahhhh we don't like when people hit towers and meep when defenders come".

Meep in PvP no PvP. If you attack a towersite deal with the fact you might not me able to meep and die. Thats PvP in my opinion. Not to run away scared, because you are afraid you die.

Last time I checked, retreat was a valid war tactic.

Sure, RUN forrest RUN!

[Xootch]

Meeping doesnt need fixing. Thank you.

[Lazy]

I agree the meep is part of the fixer toolset, but that doesn't have to be part of his toolset for PvP as well.

this is actually the single stupidest thing i've ever read. let me show you how retarded this sounds.


"i agree aimed shot is part of the agent toolset, but that doesn't have to be part of his toolset for PVP as well"

"i agree blocekrs are part of the engineer toolset, but that doesn't have to be part of his toolset for pvp as well"

"i agree heals are part of the doctor toolset but that doesn't have to be part of his toolset for pvp as well"

"i agree mongo rage is a part of atrox toolset but that doesn't have to be part of his toolset for pvp as well"

do you see? what's the point of fixers having instant grid if they can't use it in pvp? might as well just delete th e fixer profession entirely.

If you attack a tower site deal with the fact you might not me able to meep and die. Thats PvP in my opinion. Not to run away scared, because you are afraid you die.

if you own tower sites deal with the fact that there is a possibility you will be attacked daily for the entire time while your fields are hot. if you don't like it i'm sure a more concomitant org will be more than happy to have that field. that is owning a tower field in my opinion. not to run crying to gms because you can't be arsed to defend. "waah waah he attacked my field. ban pls!"

[blindio]

Option 1:
In my opinion a simple solution would be giving it the same settings as warps.
You cannot be warped while in fight. Why not do the same to meeping. If fight = no meep, basically if the fixer isn't attacks and he meeps all but the one attacked would be meeped from his team. Do mind if the fixer uses emergency team meep and he can't meep out himself, no-one will be and the fixer is left in fight crippled with 1 hp.

the problem with this suggestion is its too centered on pvp, meeping has uses in pvm for getting the hell out of a fight and youd be punishing fixers like mine that literally have never pvped and probably never will, im sure you dont care but ill point it out that pvp isnt all that ao offers, ive no problem with anti meep towers in fields but make sure your solution doesn involve screwing pvmers we give you enough kill count padding on BS without you affecting the bits of the game we like

[cheopis]

the problem with this suggestion is its too centered on pvp, meeping has uses in pvm for getting the hell out of a fight and youd be punishing fixers like mine that literally have never pvped and probably never will, im sure you dont care but ill point it out that pvp isnt all that ao offers, ive no problem with anti meep towers in fields but make sure your solution doesn involve screwing pvmers we give you enough kill count padding on BS without you affecting the bits of the game we like

This. I don't like PVP, and avoid it as much as I possibly can. That's why I suggested anti-meeping towers, rather than any change to meeping itself.

[Tehevolz]

Anti-meep towers would be interesting.

[Gorathon]

The problem with an anti-meep tower is that it still indiscriminately punishes fixers trying to use their toolset. To be fair to all involved, you'd need heal -% towers, anti-drain towers, etc. The abuse should be addressed, not the mechanic.

I know this idea is overly-complex, but what about something like:

1. Change tower flag mechanic so that damaging a tower gives a flag, regardless;
2. Once the fixer ('s team) has damaged a turret/tower the the fixer ('s team) must deal damage to a defending player before the meep is available. If no defenders show up, then there would be (in my mind) no need to meep to safety.

This is an ill-informed idea, I'm sure, but there should be a way to fix the abuse while still preserving the mechanic.

[blindio]

The problem with an anti-meep tower is that it still indiscriminately punishes fixers trying to use their toolset. To be fair to all involved, you'd need heal -% towers, anti-drain towers, etc. The abuse should be addressed, not the mechanic.

I know this idea is overly-complex, but what about something like:

1. Change tower flag mechanic so that damaging a tower gives a flag, regardless;
2. Once the fixer ('s team) has damaged a turret/tower the the fixer ('s team) must deal damage to a defending player before the meep is available. If no defenders show up, then there would be (in my mind) no need to meep to safety.

This is an ill-informed idea, I'm sure, but there should be a way to fix the abuse while still preserving the mechanic.

if the ai cities still existed you might be on to something here but as it stands anyone in the far corners of PW say is gonna want a meep home whether defenders come out or not, hmm thinking about it maybe attack a tower get a short no meep flag thus stranding you at the field for a bit and prey to any defenders till it ends

[Goossens]

as annoying as it is, its a nano that is meant for these things, if not it would not work in fight, being banned for meeping is just LOL

[Dreamer]

There is nothing wrong with meeping, and it would be totally stupid to say that during pvp fixers shouldnt be allowed to meep.

But it is also ridiculously annoying that some fixers abuse it to the point of having zero intention of PvPing anybody at all when they attack a site.

The solution is to find out who the people are that use insta-grid to harass, and deal with them.

Alternatively, tower wars should be made into something far more special and enjoyable as to avoid all the problems that comes with fields atm. But thats another topic....

[Goossens]

There is nothing wrong with meeping, and it would be totally stupid to say that during pvp fixers shouldnt be allowed to meep.

But it is also ridiculously annoying that some fixers abuse it to the point of having zero intention of PvPing anybody at all when they attack a site.

The solution is to find out who the people are that use insta-grid to harass, and deal with them.

Alternatively, tower wars should be made into something far more special and enjoyable as to avoid all the problems that comes with fields atm. But thats another topic....

to deal with is not to ban them, same as many previous bans for stupid reasons, ban sploiters but not someone that presses a nano that actually does what it should do

[Sleekyz]

Holy crap!
This topic made my day.

So if I use one of my toolset, to actually cause an annoying part of other faction's brain to give my faction a little advantage in NOTUM PVP that's a bad thing?

SO if a soldier AMS in borealis, that's bannable too? Cause it takes 120 seconds or more to kill him for me. GG guys, you just lost.
It's part of the game, and part of fixer toolset. remove it and i'm out of this game.
Stop crying so friggin much about the GAME MECHANICS

EXAMPLE ABOUT THIS MATTER:

I grief, almost everyday.
A soldier, uses AMS everytime in raids
A doctor uses their specialized heals everytime in raids
A crat uses init debuffs everytime in raids
An enforcer uses improved health buffs everytime in raids

^
GAME MECHANICS
OR SHOULD WE SAY, GAME PROFESSION BUFFS.
REMOVE THEM AND YOU REMOVE THE PLEASURE OF THIS GAME.

The pleasure of NOTUM WARS is that when one faction owns, the other tries to piss the current dominating faction off. Problem? Give towers to me.

[Gatester]

Should I spend my days mongoing grey cripplers in nascence while players are trying to level because mongo happens to be part of my toolset? You try to level in an open area then you face the risk of other players interrupting your kills and ability to level after all, that is the "risk you take". Am I actually doing PVE content? No. Am I actually accomplishing anything asside from annoying/harassing other players? No. However, the "I am just using my toolset" argument certainly applies quite well here doesn't it?


Atrox = Mongo Rage, as it is part of the atrox toolset it should never be changed.
Enforcer = rage and stuns and alpha, as it is part of the enforcer toolset it should never be changed.
Doctor = healing 5x more than any other profession, as it is part of the doctor toolset it should never be changed.
NT = massive nuke damage which ignores defenses, as it is part of the NT toolset it should never be changed.

Should I go on or are people realizing how faulty all these arguments are? Meep is a no risk, no effort escape tool with practically no limitations either. Something has to go. All these other professions need reductions to be balanced and fixer is no different, otherwise you all have to claim that EVERYTHING is perfectly balanced just the way it is. Good luck with that argument.


And for those who make the point that a side is justified in meeping because it has fewer numbers, you outnumber the defenders frequently and still meep, and even worse you are making a nonsense argument that fewer numbers should not be a disadvantage. If you cannot rally an attacking force capable of taking a tower site then that is your problem and not an excuse to harass people.

[Adva]

Should I spend my days mongoing grey cripplers in nascence while players are trying to level because mongo happens to be part of my toolset? You try to level in an open area then you face the risk of other players interrupting your kills and ability to level after all, that is the "risk you take". Am I actually doing PVE content? No. Am I actually accomplishing anything asside from annoying/harassing other players? No. However, the "I am just using my toolset" argument certainly applies quite well here doesn't it?

You have towers that are open then you might face the risk of other players attacking them and interrupting your leveling or other activities, after all that is the "risk you take" by having towers. Are they accomplishing anything? Yes, they seem to be taking down towers which would make it easier to take out a field later when a larger force can be amassed or when less defenders are possibly online. Not to mention the oh so sweet QQs that happen because of it. We'll get to the harassing other players shortly.

Atrox = Mongo Rage, as it is part of the atrox toolset it should never be changed.
Enforcer = rage and stuns and alpha, as it is part of the enforcer toolset it should never be changed.
Doctor = healing 5x more than any other profession, as it is part of the doctor toolset it should never be changed.
NT = massive nuke damage which ignores defenses, as it is part of the NT toolset it should never be changed.

Should I go on or are people realizing how faulty all these arguments are? Meep is a no risk, no effort escape tool with practically no limitations either. Something has to go. All these other professions need reductions to be balanced and fixer is no different, otherwise you all have to claim that EVERYTHING is perfectly balanced just the way it is. Good luck with that argument.

If you look at things in a vacuum then sure, the argument may be faulty. What you, and others who are trying to get griefers banned, seem to gloss over is the fact that there are a number of other factors playing into why people would want to "grief." Maybe you want to wipe out a few clusters of towers to make taking the field easier at a later time? Maybe you want to see just how fast of a response time an org has, or how many defenders they could possibly muster up. You know, tactics. Personally, I never saw a problem with griefing. Did it suck? Yes. Did I complain and petition about it? No. I just replanted my towers and chalked it up to the fact that the field was open and was there to be attacked.

And for those who make the point that a side is justified in meeping because it has fewer numbers, you outnumber the defenders frequently and still meep, and even worse you are making a nonsense argument that fewer numbers should not be a disadvantage.

Nobody has said that lower numbers should not be a disadvantage, in fact lower numbers have inherent disadvantages. Lower numbers means lower damage on towers/CTs, so defenders have longer to rally and defend. Lower numbers means a lower amount of perks/specials to spam on defenders so less of them die, which in turn makes it harder for the attackers. That's one reason why I see nothing wrong with griefing, it allows a smaller group of people to be proactive at towers instead of being wiped each and every time they try something.

If you cannot rally an attacking force capable of taking a tower site then that is your problem and not an excuse to harass people.

This right here, this is just the icing on the hypocritical flavored cake. Do me a favor, re-read what I quoted you as saying, then ask yourself why Clan orgs have deemed it necessary to sync towers to the same time zone. And then ask them what their excuse is for it. (Here's a hint: It has to do with not being able to defend during US nights because, GASP, they may have lower numbers then.)

It's funny, all this talk of griefing being "harassment" from Clans while, in the same breath, they will defend tower syncing. Syncing cause me, and a lot of others on in my time zone, to purposely be cut off from participating in NW. I'd say that's a good example of harassment, wouldn't you?

[cheopis]

Anti-meeping towers don't necessarily have to stop meeping. Just slow it down significantly so it's not an instant get-out-of-jail-free card. Say, make that instant meep into a 30 second meep. That gives defenders a chance to interrupt.

Hell, I'm a Fixer myself on my main character, and I don't PVP at all, and even I can see how terribly broken meeping is for tower wars. If all you want to do is PVP when nobody else is actually there, then, well, you aren't PVPing, and the PVP folks won't miss you. Because you were never there to begin with.