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Thread: Clarification of tower meeping changes

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    i did tl7 tower wars at 5am gmt once. it was me and literally 3 other dudes (one duallogged) dropping a 200 field because no one showed up to defend it. are you seriously suggesting we should let tl7 fields be hot at a time when no one would show up to defend?

    incase you haven't noticed ao's been hemorrhaging players for a while now. even euro primetime is pretty dead compared to how it used to be.
    There is a big difference between 5 am gmt (which are indeed the dead hours), and the few hours before and after towers open which do have quiet alot of people playing. I am not saying they have to be open the full 24 hours but having em all synced in the same few hours give or take 1/2-1h is the complete opposite thing.

    I too notice the numbers slowly declining over the past period, having every single field synced in the same few hours is one of the (many) reasons this is happening. I have orgmates who get home from work and find out that all fields just closed and that starts to get frustrating after a while for people who like tl 7 wars. Causing a few of them to actually stop playing or logging on less and less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
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  2. #122
    i haven't really done a lot of tl7 towers since merge but before merge we had them hot for a solid 10 hour block with efp going hot mid afternoon and dav going cold late in the evening. what are the timers like today? i'd assume they're about the same as i was catching the tail end of some nw action last night

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Toyhazard View Post
    I cant believe you are so dense, syncing towers is a necessity in order to provide fairness to the wars. Thats some serious crap right there. Putting every single tl 7 field in the same few hours is so fair that it locks out a decently sized portion of the playerbase from pretty much ever being able to attack or defend tl 7 towers. Please explain to me how this is fair.

    And fyi this is a MMO, theres always people online to defend or attack towers, the game doesnt stop when you log out. You guys act like theres not a single person on your side playing when you log off and the other side can just kill everything because well, theres 0 clans on anyway. What makes you say that the clans who play during non gmt evening hours arent gonna put up a fight if towers get attacked?

    Edit: And tower syncing isnt done to avoid giving the other side fields for free. Its because your trying to minimize the opportunity/time for people to attack sites and trying to avoid any tower action from happening altogether.
    Wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. Have you heard of time zones all together? And country-based orgs? There are gazillion times when most orgs have literally NOBODY online for 5 to 12 hours. You like taking tower sites without defenders? I don't, so buck up and deal with it. PS: your org has been doing this since NW was released. How dare you even mention it idk...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    i did tl7 tower wars at 5am gmt once. it was me and literally 3 other dudes (one duallogged) dropping a 200 field because no one showed up to defend it. are you seriously suggesting we should let tl7 fields be hot at a time when no one would show up to defend? if you want to solo towerfields that much make a tl-3 enf. all those fields are hot at retarded times cuz no one bothers with them.

    incase you haven't noticed ao's been hemorrhaging players for a while now. even euro primetime is pretty dead compared to how it used to be.


    EDIT: more on topic:

    griefing is a vital part of the tower metagame. last time omnis took towers they would grief for the 2 months beforehand every day to break the skinner's box response most pvpers had of tower message = log pvp toon = get pvp action. once people saw that log pvp toon = wasted time they wouldn't bother showing up until one day omnis brought out a raidforce and jsut rolled through the entire game map over the course of 2 days. without the initial 2 months of griefing they'd have never been able to outnumber the initial defenders enough to build momentum through victory messages.
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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    i haven't really done a lot of tl7 towers since merge but before merge we had them hot for a solid 10 hour block with efp going hot mid afternoon and dav going cold late in the evening. what are the timers like today? i'd assume they're about the same as i was catching the tail end of some nw action last night
    There is less then 3 hours between the first and the last tl 7 field opening/closing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fontane View Post
    Wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. Have you heard of time zones all together? And country-based orgs? There are gazillion times when most orgs have literally NOBODY online for 5 to 12 hours. You like taking tower sites without defenders? I don't, so buck up and deal with it. PS: your org has been doing this since NW was released. How dare you even mention it idk...
    Like I told Lazy, theres a difference between having stuff open 5 am gmt (when it is indeed dead) and having it open a few hours earlier + longer at which time there are still quiet alot of people playing.

    And lol your such a hypocrite:
    - Having all towers syncd up around the same few hours = buck up and deal with it.
    - People meeping from towers when a group larger then themselves show up (which will pretty much result in certain dead) = harassment and people should get banned.
    Toyhazard 220/30/70 Engie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    I can't code in better leadership for the Clan faction.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    good idea. glad you feel that way. looks like we can leave meep alone then, as there's nothing wrong with it



    tell that to atrox enfos and nbs + triple+ nanofeast nt's and sd perked atrox shades and... well ... need i go on? ao pvp is chock-full of high reward 0 risk tools. if you want to "fix" one you should probably fix all the others as well.




    the issue isn't fixers wanting to be untouchable. the people QQing in this thread haven't figured out how to disable fixers that are meeping (HINT: it's not by crying on the forums for nerfs)
    You are right, there's nothing wrong with the meeping skill itself. There's only something wrong when people abuse the hell out of it in PVP.

    So add some sort of feature that will actually require a fixer to *gasp* run away from a tower site for 20 seconds before they can meep away after attacking.

    This feature could be disabled by attackers, by destroying the anti meeping tower.

    I know, I know, if it's not an instant get-out-of-jail-free cart for fixers who are used to abusing the hell out of it, they won't like it.

    So Lazy, are you willing to start comparing comparable things, or will you continue comparing bottlecaps to elephant turds. None of your arguments above have anything at all to do with the real problem.

    The problem is that there is an abuseable mechanic which is *recognized* as being abuseable by the game development staff. There's a very simple fix which might be implemented to prevent this abuse, while having almost zero impact on the people who ACTUALLY use fixers in PVP, rather than griefing runs.

    But no, some people don't want to fix it, because they want to continue abusing it.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post

    griefing is a vital part of the tower metagame. last time omnis took towers they would grief for the 2 months beforehand every day to break the skinner's box response most pvpers had of tower message = log pvp toon = get pvp action. once people saw that log pvp toon = wasted time they wouldn't bother showing up until one day omnis brought out a raidforce and jsut rolled through the entire game map over the course of 2 days. without the initial 2 months of griefing they'd have never been able to outnumber the initial defenders enough to build momentum through victory messages.
    This is NOT PVP. PVP is when you fight other players, not when you bore them to death until you can take their stuff without fighting.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by cheopis View Post
    This is NOT PVP. PVP is when you fight other players, not when you bore them to death until you can take their stuff without fighting.
    its a normal tactic, its also not pvp when its 100 vs 50 or 5 vs 1, those that have towers know ppl are hitting it, you either dont take towers or you live with it, you dont actually have to run to a site when you dont get a 75% msg so I sure dont see the problem, and if he meeps when you show up and you dont like that than dont show up
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  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Goossens View Post
    its a normal tactic, its also not pvp when its 100 vs 50 or 5 vs 1, those that have towers know ppl are hitting it, you either dont take towers or you live with it, you dont actually have to run to a site when you dont get a 75% msg so I sure dont see the problem, and if he meeps when you show up and you dont like that than dont show up
    No, it is NOT a normal tactic in any game with PVP that actually works. PVP is about, you know, player vs player.

    By allowing a fixer to meep instantly away from any PVP danger, you allow fixers who aren't really interested in PVP at all to create a PVP joke, rather than a PVP game.

    Not all fixers do this, but the ones that do are enough of a reason to make it possible to catch a fixer while they are "ringing the bell" at a tower site.

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  9. #129
    Please allow me to sum things up for everyone:

    - Clans are upset that Omni are 'griefing' (let's gloss over the two different types at the moment). Omni think this is laughable because Clans used to do it (as Omni before that, and Clan before that).

    Reasonable people looking at it objectively seem to see this as a valid tactic, that has always been valid, and will continue to be valid; yes, there was one extreme example and that was dealt with. Remember, no one is forcing you to come defend the tower, you are choosing to defend because you like/care about pvp/towers. Basically by definition, this shouldn't be "harassment;" as, say, kiting an area so people cannot do that area (they have no choice, it was taken from them).


    - Some Clans think tower syncing is 'necessary to preserve pvp' in that it prevents towers from being live during completely dead hours. Omni think syncing towers should be considered "harassment" as it keeps many people from being able to do towers (they have no choice, it was taken away from them).

    Reasonable people seem to agree that towers should rotate. It being "harassment" seems fairly arguable/obvious, but will likely not happen as both sides have done it before.

    ((On a personal note, Paradise has not sync'd tower sites ever to my knowledge over the years i've been involved. We've had tower timers switched due to losing sites after opening or swapping sites because another org wanted the site we had, but i am relatively confident that we never consciously sync'd timers. If you have evidence I am certainly open to see/hear it, but otherwise i will assume this as forum banter and consider it debunked :-). ))

    - Some people think meeping is overpowered. Most fixers think it is not. Some people are calling for all sorts of various types of nerfs to meeping (slowing it down, adding longer debuff, making it not possible in some circumstances), and most fixers are saying this would be castrating a significant portion of the toolset.

    Reasonable people can agree that meeping is a very cool toy, but as it is not offensive and is counterable in several ways it is tough to call it significantly overpowered in the larger scheme of things. As many other professions/breeds have overpowered aspects that we all accept (including meep until recently, apparently), reasonable people can agree this is a cause-of-the-week discussion and let it die.


    I believe this thread can now be ended. FC, please help.


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    Proud Member of Paradise

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Toyhazard View Post
    And lol your such a hypocrite:
    - Having all towers syncd up around the same few hours = buck up and deal with it.
    - People meeping from towers when a group larger then themselves show up (which will pretty much result in certain dead) = harassment and people should get banned.

    Do you see any connection? They are two totally different issues. I don't like tower syncing, but it's necessary ESPECIALLY for tl7 sites so anyone that engages in attacking one, should expect defenders.
    People who go to wars should go there with the purpose of taking down sites, not to annoy and annoy and annoy and annoy AND ANNOY every single day for hours and hours untill people stop caring completely just so they can make a thread on LoR with "clan side xp 0% lulululul". Give me a break! Agree with me that the mechanic of meeping is abused to extreme lenghts by certain people(including yourself, but compared to Roquette you're a walk in the park) and it needs to be changed in order to balance things out. If not, continue to meep that fixer of yours everytime defenders come and we'll see for how long your account will have an "Open" status.
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  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by cheopis View Post
    No, it is NOT a normal tactic in any game with PVP that actually works. PVP is about, you know, player vs player.
    You mean, except every single game that has a land control system that actually works actually does have hit and run/harassing/griefing of that scale in some form.

    The only part that's lame about gridwarping is when there's even numbers and they still gridwarp as soon as someone comes on playfield map, and only when that happens and especially if they claim that it was even numbers at that moment.

    I'd personally prefer to PvP rather than run onto a site and see noone, but if they destroy one or two towers and leave (Specifically if they happen to have a low amount of people) I don't really think that's a huge deal.
    Last edited by wonderland; Jun 11th, 2013 at 01:17:52. Reason: q
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  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    You mean, except every single game that has a land control system that actually works actually does have hit and run in some form.
    Putting some sort of anti-meeping system in place at tower sites would not prevent hit and run. It would prevent fixers from engaging in hit and run with absolutely no risk to themselves.

    Nothing would stop a fixer from trying to run into a tower site, smack a tower, running out of the tower site again, THEN meeping away.

    The difference here is that if that fixer is forced to hang around for 10-20-30 seconds in the tower site, then an opponent might just have a chance to act decisively against them. Catching a fixer even when they aren't meeping isn't trivial if they know what they are doing, they WILL still be annoying to catch. But it will be possible.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by cheopis View Post
    Putting some sort of anti-meeping system in place at tower sites would not prevent hit and run. It would prevent fixers from engaging in hit and run with absolutely no risk to themselves.

    Nothing would stop a fixer from trying to run into a tower site, smack a tower, running out of the tower site again, THEN meeping away.

    The difference here is that if that fixer is forced to hang around for 10-20-30 seconds in the tower site, then an opponent might just have a chance to act decisively against them. Catching a fixer even when they aren't meeping isn't trivial if they know what they are doing, they WILL still be annoying to catch. But it will be possible.
    I don't get how that has anything to do with what I said.
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  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonghigs View Post
    snip
    Far from it.
    Your org not only syncd towers, but they tought other people how to do it aswell(back when NW was hot) and actively continue to do so this day. I don't have to prove anything, anyone can visit your towers sites and do a little math.
    Also, there is no "clans think" or "omnis think", both issues are just as bad regardless of the side that does it. One of them is downright insulting as a form of active and persistent harassement(if you compare numbers of actual sites taken and global messages sent done by the Artificers, the ratio is like 1 to 200) and one IS an abuse of system mechanics but it's only done by orgs so they can have defenders online in case of an attack, and as nobody(except Toyhazard) likes to take down tower sites without defense, both sides do it, making this abuse balanced.
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  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    I like how in SWTOR the first person to damage a mob has full XP and lootrights on it, imagine the same thing applying in AO? A 220 could not run up and OD your level 100 who is killing an SL dyna. AOE tanks would no longer be able to pull the mobs for players without being in the team itself.
    UBT is a taunt tool also..no dmg done. Few other profs also have no dmg taunt tools also. MP dmg reductions works as well for holding grey aggro fyi.
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  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post

    The only part that's lame about gridwarping is when there's even numbers and they still gridwarp as soon as someone comes on playfield map, and only when that happens and especially if they claim that it was even numbers at that moment.
    I was the only defender online. There were 8+ attackers and they all meeped as soon as I got there. Come on.........is that "war tactic"? And no tower was actually destroyed. None.

    How about you, Dewestad, do you still consider this normal and within game rules?
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  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    I don't get how that has anything to do with what I said.
    No wonder your arguments haven't made any sense.

    I'll break it down.

    1) Don't change meeping.
    2) Change tower sites to prevent or drastically slow meeping while you are in the sites. Either by a simple gas effect, or by an anti-meeping tower.

    3) Stop tower trolling fixers.

  18. #138
    All right, since Michi has answered and you continue to argue about what i asked you not to, closing this.
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