So combined supple based armor is now 1b per piece

[Autohead]

See? The game became easier for people with endgame toons not for noobs. Something that some people cannot or dont want to figure out. Instead they whine how the game became dumbed down and easy. It became dumbed down and easy FOR THEM. This is the main reason why BS and S42 dont run. Because new players dont stay. All that is left of AOs population are a few whinny vets who cry how easy the game became in one thread and how bad research caps are in another.

This.

[Opscuro]

See? The game became easier for people with endgame toons not for noobs. Something that some people cannot or dont want to figure out. Instead they whine how the game became dumbed down and easy. It became dumbed down and easy FOR THEM. This is the main reason why BS and S42 dont run. Because new players dont stay. All that is left of AOs population are a few whinny vets who cry how easy the game became in one thread and how bad research caps are in another.

Ok let me put it this way.

noob oldschool:
lvl 1-100 2 weeks, farming gear needed for lvl 100 2 weeks = total 4 weeks for same thing

noob now:
lvl 1-100 1 week, farming gear needed for lvl 100 2 weeks = total 3 weeks for same thing

Plz tell me now how its not easier for noobs also now then it was before?

And ur saying its harder for new players then for veteran players to use new benefits, yes it is so? Shouldn't it be? Whats ur point?

[JustinSane4]

What happens when you level twice as fast as before?

*Drumroll*

You farm half the gear.

Before it took a longer time to gain xp, axp etc. People did more city raids, more missions, more everything. A longer time leveling meant higher chances of finding valuable loot, more credits, better equipped toons in general. Now the devs increased xp/axp/whatever making leveling extremelly fast. Drop rates on loot however did not change.

Lets see if you are smart enough to figure it out by yourself who benefits and who looses from this change.

PS- The whining part of your post is hilarious, do you know why?

Err, since they got rid of ignots, killing a kajillion hecklers provides about the same wealth as killing 2 kajillion hecklers.

[blindio]

Err, since they got rid of ignots, killing a kajillion hecklers provides about the same wealth as killing 2 kajillion hecklers.

not true ill not say its the best method of earning creds but if your in a normal team where you can loot monster parts etc you can make a million or 5 from a hecks run, not enough to make it any different than any other content for creds though if thats what you meant

[wonderland]

not true ill not say its the best method of earning creds but if your in a normal team where you can loot monster parts etc you can make a million or 5 from a hecks run, not enough to make it any different than any other content for creds though if thats what you meant

2manyclicks4me

[lainbr]

Ok let me put it this way.

noob oldschool:
lvl 1-100 2 weeks, farming gear needed for lvl 100 2 weeks = total 4 weeks for same thing

noob now:
lvl 1-100 1 week, farming gear needed for lvl 100 2 weeks = total 3 weeks for same thing

Plz tell me now how its not easier for noobs also now then it was before?

And ur saying its harder for new players then for veteran players to use new benefits, yes it is so? Shouldn't it be? Whats ur point?

I toke one month to lvl to 40. Mkay? So did everybody I played with.

Now I'll answer for him and tell how its not easier for noobs now:

1. All the methods to earn creds early game are tied with third part programs (Concrete Cushions) or are sorta some obscure quest you only know after you reach endgame and go search how to do your own stuffs (Basic Armor)
2. Since there are no more need to equip your toon before lvl 150, all vets are purposely completely gimp w/o equip besides med suit and xp implants. Therefore unable to do contents the normal way. Which means they are not around the same place noobs are, to tell then some tips and overall do team stuffs in the "slowpaced" way.
3. Since powerlevel and daily farm become a norm, vets usually invite random noobs to their powerlvl teams, cause they are cool guys they will also give it for free. So it tell noobs that they dont need to gear to finish content. Also tell they can skip content at all.
4. That leave 1~2 vets + 2~4 noobs who wants to enjoy the effing game as it was suposed to be. They have gear, they can do the team content, but since they dont live in the same timezone they arent online the same time to make a team and do stuffs. So they are forced to do dailies and cant play as they want cause there are not enough ppl for a team. And... when there are... pl teams stole all their hecklers/borgs. And no, noobs dont know about East Fang, cause there are no vet to tell then there are hecklers there!
5. There is a leveling content gap between 130 and 160. Thats Ely hecks till you die or lousy borgs till you die. Same mobs, and less and less exp. Till you get to Ado hecks/RK team mishs. Oh... wait! They dont exist anymore. Or RK mishs ofc... hmmm, no, not anymore.
6. FC killed all the way to earn creds midgame. Dailies killed RK team mishs. They killed S10. Pay to win token killed Tokenbag market. And LE killed T1 Embryo. If a noob has survived this far today, they quit, because they cant farm their equips nor they can farm creds to buy then. The ones who doesnt are the one who powerlevel since the beginning.
7. They killed Penumbra progression because they never fixed Pen missions. They are harder than Inf ones, their mobs hits more, they take longer and they give less exp. So ppl jump from Ely hecklers to Inf mishs. And the powerlevel continues.
8. Now the surviving noobs are new shinnie end game players, besides they dont have any endgame gear, or midgame gear, or any gear at all. And they probably dont know how their toolset works. LETS FARM GEAR! Hmmm... no... "We do this raid as 3~4man because we wanna sell the loot" Nobody raid raids. Nobody does endgame team content the normal way. And ever the ones who does, they will not invite someone that gimp.

[blindio]

. no... "We do this raid as 3~4man because we wanna sell the loot" Nobody raid raids. Nobody does endgame team content the normal way. And ever the ones who does, they will not invite someone that gimp.[/LIST]

your broadly correct most people dont do the content properly with intended lvl toons their are some of us in a minority but its sadly mostly people skipping to endgame and they have i suppose good reason theyre bored with midgame and until FC removes or drastically changes ely hecks theyll keep doing it as its easy

[ilengineeru]

Except they didnt make the game easier for new or casual players. They made it easier for those who can buy powerleveling services and loot rights.

No kidding. MY enfo is now level 200 I gave up on my engi cause she dies like a pig all the time. The problem is I drank heckler juice to get from 150 to level 200 and my LE research is crap, like 2 or 4 lines to level 2 and getting SK is hard unless I am missing something. I still don't have access to city raids unless I am invited as an afterthought. My gear is still crap ( QL 201 T2 enfo and a 181 / 153 - type -112 Kryo's ) and my Enfo dies like a pig in the catacombs trying to do the Knowledge of the Yuttos.

[Autohead]

No kidding. MY enfo is now level 200 I gave up on my engi cause she dies like a pig all the time. The problem is I drank heckler juice to get from 150 to level 200 and my LE research is crap, like 2 or 4 lines to level 2 and getting SK is hard unless I am missing something. I still don't have access to city raids unless I am invited as an afterthought. My gear is still crap ( QL 201 T2 enfo and a 181 / 153 - type -112 Kryo's ) and my Enfo dies like a pig in the catacombs trying to do the Knowledge of the Yuttos.

Don't buy a level boost if you can't afford to upgrade your gear.

[Nanostratege]

No kidding. MY enfo is now level 200 I gave up on my engi cause she dies like a pig all the time. The problem is I drank heckler juice to get from 150 to level 200 and my LE research is crap, like 2 or 4 lines to level 2 and getting SK is hard unless I am missing something. I still don't have access to city raids unless I am invited as an afterthought. My gear is still crap ( QL 201 T2 enfo and a 181 / 153 - type -112 Kryo's ) and my Enfo dies like a pig in the catacombs trying to do the Knowledge of the Yuttos.

sounds like you don't have inf access and high relevant faction. Upgrade the T2 to T3, that should be basically free.
Get S7 weapons, they are op as hell.

... or instead of all that, just deck yourself out in ql 300 ofab with ql 300 ofab weapon. That'd be the entirely free option (assuming you bothered to do dailies)

[Cariadast]

I toke one month to lvl to 40. Mkay? So did everybody I played with.

Now I'll answer for him and tell how its not easier for noobs now:

1. All the methods to earn creds early game are tied with third part programs (Concrete Cushions) or are sorta some obscure quest you only know after you reach endgame and go search how to do your own stuffs (Basic Armor)

1. Join an Org. Many new players avoid joining orgs because thy wan to "Go it alone" Im a recruiter for mine..I hear it all the time. Im not responsible for noobs who dont have enough brain cells to get involved with a guild who WILL help them.
   
   

2. Since there are no more need to equip your toon before lvl 150, all vets are purposely completely gimp w/o equip besides med suit and xp implants. Therefore unable to do contents the normal way. Which means they are not around the same place noobs are, to tell then some tips and overall do team stuffs in the "slowpaced" way.

[Gimpynoob]

Orgs are fine and dandy for people who play on euro prime time. Outside of that... there are more orgs then players.

And orgs still dont adress the issue. That AO is a MMORPG that is neither a MMO nor a RPG. In MMOs players are rewarded for teaming and soloing/afk leveling are penalized or impossible. In RPGs leveling is the ultimate goal and acquiring gear a consequence of the leveling process. In AO those who can afford it buy optimized PvP toons with Iwin buttons attached and those who cannot do boring and repetitive farming to buy loot rights until they quit the game.

Good thing the new engine is coming soon solving all the lag issues that make PvP and some PvM impossible for some of us. And the new player experience will follow shortly after turning the leveling process into a fun and rewarding activity that will attract millions and hundreds of a couple of new people allowing those of us not living in Scandinavia to easily find teams to play all content.

Right?

[Hildegaard]

Wow, there are a lot of serious good points being made here on both sides.

I played continuously for the first six years or so, and off and on since then. I can definitely see the validity of a lot of the points Iainbr makes, but I like the optimism of Cariadast's response. Just what is the name of this uber-awesome org you belong to?

[lainbr]

.-. Surdenly everybody gets my name wrong. *cries in a corner*

@Cariadast: While I do agree with your point of view as well xD There are three things that still budges me.

1. Join Le Org - I was not on euro prime when I was a noob. I joined an org around lvl 60 (with my rl friends). Around lvl 100 we had a disagreement with the org leaders and we decided to drop and make our own org. Some time pass and all my friends moves to another game I dont like xD So I stay alone in AO. Till 220. I was ninja invited to an org around lvl 10 and my first OOC question was: "How do I leave an org?" I got a Letter from Nanomage Front of Libertation in a dark alley in Bore - and since I was noob, therefore no knowledge about scripts, it scared the **** out of me :x During my solo road after lvl 170 (not sure at the lvl) I got ONE invitation to a good org, but it was from oposite faction. I got some other from orgs with really bad reputation (Toboe ones to mention some) and thats it.

Inbefore lvl 220, I had 0 good situations with org. So, join an org is easier said than done. Not many recruit actively. From those, 90% are neutral and only recruit on really low lvl. Some have bad rep and are full of real jerks. I could only find the org I trully belongs after a while on 220.

2. Tier stuffs - I was talking about T1 embryos which were 5m a piece. They can be easily farmed for any prof after lvl 165 and some after lvl 110. And while some ppl still does Tier, its still cheaper and easier to get OFAB, so nobody buy Embryos but farm then. T2 glyphs are a whole another history: Some profs at 220 cannot really solo it (either as kill a mob before the previous ones respawn or just bluntly dieing); for those who can, its still a painfull process. Due all these hardships, T2 glyphs are still 20~40m :P But they don't sell as much as before so not worth farming for creds.

3. S10 - Yeah, you can sell relays for a good proffit, but they drop once a blue moon. You can stay farming on a semitwinked MA for 4 hours and see none. Other thing: I actively farmed S10 for a bunch while (because its fun, and because I had friends playing with) and neither me, nor my friends who played there ever more than me could make Billions a day, unless on the day we decided to spawn all our relays and killed 30 bosses for each.

EDIT:

But.. HOW did we get off the whole "DROP RATE ON SUPPLE AND DECENT VIRAL BOTS SUCKS", to well, whining about other stuff?

Complains about huge price leads to complains about no wai to noobs get creds.

[wonderland]

"No way can new players get credits" isn't true.

"The ways that new players get credits are out of the way, and may take some research (Not much), watching, education by other players" is true.

New tl7 don't need supple bots to farm, and they can farm to get supple bots relatively easily. Anyone under tl7 doesn't need supple bots, or even any alien armor.

Having items that are expensive and/or take some effort to get isn't a problem. The irony is that you either have people complaining that the game is "Too easy," then saying that they want everything to be within an arm's reach.

And orgs still dont adress the issue. That AO is a MMORPG that is neither a MMO nor a RPG. In MMOs players are rewarded for teaming and soloing/afk leveling are penalized or impossible. In RPGs leveling is the ultimate goal and acquiring gear a consequence of the leveling process.

I think you need to look up the definition of MMO and RPG again.

See? The game became easier for people with endgame toons not for noobs. Something that some people cannot or dont want to figure out. Instead they whine how the game became dumbed down and easy. It became dumbed down and easy FOR THEM. This is the main reason why BS and S42 dont run. Because new players dont stay. All that is left of AOs population are a few whinny vets who cry how easy the game became in one thread and how bad research caps are in another.

Every single game on the planet is easier, making a new character the second time around, for people with high level characters. Do you expect that to change?

(Battlestation and Sector 42 do run)

[blindio]

"No way can new players get credits" isn't true.

Every single game on the planet is easier for people with high level characters. Do you expect that to change?

its usually the opposite in my experience of mmo's higher levels have a harder time as they are expected to know what theyre doing and to have access to all their class tools, i sometimes wonder if it wouldnt be best if sl zones had lvl ranges that can access them thatd shake up people leveling alts a bit id imagine, we;d maybe get more mid game city raids happening doesnt harm the apfs having level ranges then perhaps new and/or casual players would have an easier time getting teams

[wonderland]

I meant more as, "If you have a higher level character, and make a new character, it's much easier the second time around."

My mistake, wording problem.

[blindio]

I meant more as, "If you have a higher level character, and make a new character, it's much easier the second time around."

My mistake, wording problem.

ah ok yes on that id agree at least in ao having a main to farm gear is very useful as i found when i was playing rk1 with a 220 main and rk2 with a 150 main rk2 was harder for me

[Gimpynoob]

"No way can new players get credits" isn't true.

"The ways that new players get credits are out of the way, and may take some research (Not much), watching, education by other players" is true.

New tl7 don't need supple bots to farm, and they can farm to get supple bots relatively easily. Anyone under tl7 doesn't need supple bots, or even any alien armor.

Having items that are expensive and/or take some effort to get isn't a problem. The irony is that you either have people complaining that the game is "Too easy," then saying that they want everything to be within an arm's reach.



I think you need to look up the definition of MMO and RPG again.



Every single game on the planet is easier, making a new character the second time around, for people with high level characters. Do you expect that to change?

(Battlestation and Sector 42 do run)

It doesn't matter if it is possible to make lots of credits ingame at lower levels. What matters is that it is a chore. Most people have enough chores in real life. Or do you think that running all over Newland desert at level 25 is fun?
And it is easier to ask questions when you know that there are questions to be asked. A game that makes people quit before they even know that there are questions to be asked is kinda... sucky?

Some or most professions may not need supple bots to be able to farm supple bots at tl7, but it is not as easy as you make it sound. Farming city raids solo requires a huge investment into most toons. An investment in time that does not consist in raiding or doing team or even solo content. It consists in doing boring and repetitive tasks for extended periods of time. Teaming up? Yeah right.
And since supple bots are so unnecessary I wonder why they are sold for so much and are eagerly sought after by so many?

Having items ingame that are hard to get isn't a problem, the problem is that almost all gear needs to be bought from other players if you are a new player. And it requires a lot of creds that need to be farmed doing boring and repetitive content. Even VP farming is a stupid and boring activity that may require some creative gameplay. And you still need to buy at least the bios to upgrade the guns unless you farm them with a higher level toon or with a twink that doesnt need them.

Yeah, definitions.

Every game is easier a second time around, but it seems to be necessary to make that second time around even more easy, even if it means making it unplayable for those on their first run.

Battlestations and S42 run... sometimes. Exceptions and rules proving my point and stuffs.

[wonderland]

It doesn't matter if it is possible to make lots of credits ingame at lower levels. What matters is that it is a chore. Most people have enough chores in real life. Or do you think that running all over Newland desert at level 25 is fun?
And it is easier to ask questions when you know that there are questions to be asked. A game that makes people quit before they even know that there are questions to be asked is kinda... sucky?

Some or most professions may not need supple bots to be able to farm supple bots at tl7, but it is not as easy as you make it sound. Farming city raids solo requires a huge investment into most toons. An investment in time that does not consist in raiding or doing team or even solo content. It consists in doing boring and repetitive tasks for extended periods of time. Teaming up? Yeah right.
And since supple bots are so unnecessary I wonder why they are sold for so much and are eagerly sought after by so many?

Having items ingame that are hard to get isn't a problem, the problem is that almost all gear needs to be bought from other players if you are a new player. And it requires a lot of creds that need to be farmed doing boring and repetitive content. Even VP farming is a stupid and boring activity that may require some creative gameplay. And you still need to buy at least the bios to upgrade the guns unless you farm them with a higher level toon or with a twink that doesnt need them.

Yeah, definitions.

Every game is easier a second time around, but it seems to be necessary to make that second time around even more easy, even if it means making it unplayable for those on their first run.

Battlestations and S42 run... sometimes. Exceptions and rules proving my point and stuffs.

I don't how many times you're going to change your argument/put words in my mouth/try to imply that I said things that I didn't, but whatever.

First off, the game is still not "unplayable for those on their first run."

Second off, I didn't say supple bots were "unnecessary," I said they weren't necessary to farm money for them. You don't need supple armor to kill an alien general, farm beast, dust brigade 3, or any of that. Of course, it'd be better to have them, but again, that's far from, "You need them." They're far, far from needed. Noone under tl7 needs them unless they're a twink of some sorts, which little to no people that are actually leveling make themselves dedicated twinks.

Third off, whether you think making money is a chore or not, is your opinion. That varies game by game, person by person. I've said before, personally I think farming money is more on the boring side, and I've said before it could be made much more fun. But, "it's boring," is definitely not the same as "it's impossible," and it's definitely not going to kill anyone. "Need a team" is, also, definitely far from "It's not possible." You don't need to buy lost eden types. You dont need to buy supple bots. You don't need to buy goddess armor. I know almost everyone on the forums tries to say that the game is deserted, teams are never made, and even possibly thinking about doing beast or dust brigade is just out of the question, noone is invited to teams besides bureaucrats, doctors, soldiers, enforcers, and shades, but that's just not true from easily more than enough ingame experience. A few teams only do "5 specific professions," but much more than enough invite a good variation of people. I don't even play during prime time.

Leveling and making money could use changes, but your argument would be a lot better if you didn't exaggerate/make implications that are just straight not true.