The Rihwen and Carlo will no longer be nodrop.

[Seoin]

300 of the aao buffage you counted for engis is actually aad

[Farlath]

300 of the aao buffage you counted for engis is actually aad

Esssch has a reading comprehension problem, it happens.

[Esssch]

300 of the aao buffage you counted for engis is actually aad

You're right. All I saw was "AddAll" and filled in "Offense" in my head for some reason. So higher base, 2 pets attacking, but less AAO from buffs. Still ends up being considerably more attack rating on engi pets though. Compared to Rihwen fully buffed, Widowmaker has something like 500 more AR fully buffed, M-60 has something like 1.3-1.4k more.

Esssch has a reading comprehension problem, it happens.

Good thing you can call me out on this one thing! Stay classy.

[Wyoming]

WTB 5k AR on Rihwen.

[Dumonde]

I honestly can not understand my fellow engineers.

Everyone in my (or equal pure AS / AR setup) is in the situation of needing the swap. This swap occurs only in 2 situations:

1.) Beginning of the Battlestation
2.) After one of your pets has been killed

Its pretty simple to pre-buff your pets BEFORE entering the battlestation, so you can avoid this matter up on it. Or are you starting to buff your pets in NW after the fight has started already ? I hope not.

When I was using tro/peh, I didnt had this swapping terror and almost only see these kind of pvp engineers. In fact I dont see (2-3 exceptions, but not one single of these posters here in this thread) engineers with this setup at the moment. So, no one with this problem all are whining since pages.

Or is it really really only because MPs are more gifted with nanoskills then Engineers? If yes = lulz. If not = I simply dont get it.


I am a swapping Engineer and I dont complain about the things some girls do here.

[sannz]

....300 AAO, and ..... .....

Those Trimmers are a whopping 40 AAO. Grand buff!

You might want to edit your post with the aao/aad mistake. To get the numbers right, you know

[Esssch]

Those Trimmers are a whopping 40 AAO. Grand buff!

You might want to edit your post with the aao/aad mistake. To get the numbers right, you know

Would you really like the correct numbers? Because it only makes engineers look even worse for all this whining.


As shown here:

Rihwen = 2261 base AR
+500 buff
+300 if wearing the staff (in which case not PvPing, but we'll ignore that for now)
= 3061 AR

Widowmaker = 2590 base AR
+446 buff
+280 buff
+40 trimmer
= 3356 AR

M-60 = 3459 (not sure why that thread has a bunch of different ones, but I chose the lowest so it's in engineer's favor)
+446 buff
+280 buff
+40 trimmer
= 4225 AR


BUT WAIT, I actually missed an engi pet AAO buff. Intrusive Aura of Slave, +130, bringing us to 3486 for Widowmaker (425 higher then Rihwen), 4355 for M-60 (1294 higher than Rihwen).

[Farlath]

You're right. All I saw was "AddAll" and filled in "Offense" in my head for some reason. So higher base, 2 pets attacking, but less AAO from buffs. Still ends up being considerably more attack rating on engi pets though. Compared to Rihwen fully buffed, Widowmaker has something like 500 more AR fully buffed, M-60 has something like 1.3-1.4k more.

What exactly does that have to do with the annoyance of swapping and the inordinate amount of time it takes an engineer to buff? Its true, the frog does not hit as hard as the chicken. Nor should it. Of all the pet classes, engineers are the only class that only brings 1 thing to a team, and that's damage. (blockers in pvp, but I really think team blockers should be removed. They make over powered professions into complete godmode) Crats have the best init debuffs and crowd control ingame, MPs have massive nano debuffs along with init and damage debuffing as well as limited healing and crowd control. Both have considerably higher personal defenses than engineers. Engies have second-class team reflects, and massive potential dd. So the whine about engie pet AR is a moot point, unless other pet profs are willing to loose all the extra goodies in their toolset for a boost to pet attack rating.

.... Stay classy.

Always!

[Wyoming]

What exactly does that have to do with the annoyance of swapping and the inordinate amount of time it takes an engineer to buff? Its true, the frog does not hit as hard as the chicken. Nor should it. Of all the pet classes, engineers are the only class that only brings 1 thing to a team, and that's damage.

Because reflects and pets for any situation like Mitaar and Collector, and y'know, warps for AI raids, and all of that get overlooked when you wanna make a point. Nice. Before you say "Amagawd but Cratz and Soldierz are better for either/or" remember Engineer brings both as well as rugged add control.

[Wyoming]

While we're on the point, what do MP's bring that aren't outdoable, since I'm rather certain that's why you left out Reflects/AOE Blinding?

[Raggy]

While we're on the point, what do MP's bring that aren't outdoable, since I'm rather certain that's why you left out Reflects/AOE Blinding?

Flat Enemy Damage Reduction. HoT without duration. NSD. Long duration Nanoskill increases.

[Esssch]

Flat Enemy Damage Reduction.

So do engineers. They're called reflects and ACs.

Not to mention Crat's which are better than ours (we actually get yelled at if we use our debuffs because they overwrite crat debuffs).

Docs also have one.

And Traders: two different nanos.

And Soldiers with reflects and ACs again.

Even MAs can as well.

HoT without duration.

Docs never run out of nano in a PvE environment and they're better healers. Adventurers are better healers than Mortificant. Heck, even MAs heal for more.

NSD.

Triple-split AR and 160% nano resist, on top of a vast majority of bosses being completely immune to it and the few bosses that aren't immune no longer need NSD to be killed.

Long duration Nanoskill increases.

Are you sure?

[Raggy]

-snip-

Flat ENEMY Damage Reduction, you know, DAMAGE REDUCTION on an enemy target.

HoT without duration. It's still a HoT without duration, regardless of nano costs/amount healed.

NSD is still NSD.

I'll give you Umbral.

[Ayada]

Flat ENEMY Damage Reduction, you know, DAMAGE REDUCTION on an enemy target.

HoT without duration. It's still a HoT without duration, regardless of nano costs/amount healed.

NSD is still NSD.

I'll give you Umbral.

Except that mps cannot cast it without being yelled at by the whole raid for overwriting malaise. You should of linked this as it is mps only damage debuff cast-able in a raid situation.

[Esssch]

Flat ENEMY Damage Reduction, you know, DAMAGE REDUCTION on an enemy target.

Docs, Traders, Crats. Besides, reflects does the exact same thing, and even better as it's a flat % reduction.

HoT without duration. It's still a HoT without duration, regardless of nano costs/amount healed.

Healpet has nano costs, easily testable, and any low level MP will be able to confirm this. It's the same thing as saying engineers have 2 DoTs without durations, except that would actually be closer to being true!

NSD is still NSD.

It's also still useless outside of IS, Ice Golem, and maybe Biodome. 3 whole bosses in the entire game, better pass up everybody else and recruit only MPs!

[Wyoming]

Can't Shades/Traders drain their nanopool? I mean, on mobs where NSD lands - Wistful Apparation? Does **** all. Draining nanopool would be more effective - hell, on city generals, a Shade can make their AAD negative at the same time.
Seriously. Engineers are far more useful.

[Farlath]

While we're on the point, what do MP's bring that aren't outdoable, since I'm rather certain that's why you left out Reflects/AOE Blinding?

....Engies have second-class team reflects....

I see we have more people here with reading comprehension problems....

and aoe blinds? those things that engies get yelled at for using because they break calms? (and not everyone has a crat in team, i know its hard to believe)

and if you want to just compare things that are outdoable by another profession..... well that leaves engies right back with damage. blinds are ghetto crowd control at best, crat/nt/trader mezzes are much more effective. soldier reflects are better, and engie ac buffs are not exactly something that gets asked for fervently. sooo..... yeah. my point stands.

Edit: healpet on informant can be a lifesaver. I don't know of any other class that can heal npcs. :P

[Farlath]

Docs, Traders, Crats. Besides, reflects does the exact same thing, and even better as it's a flat % reduction.

and they're only useful if you can't find a soldier. hence my use of the term "second class" team reflects.

Healpet has nano costs, easily testable, and any low level MP will be able to confirm this. It's the same thing as saying engineers have 2 DoTs without durations, except that would actually be closer to being true!

interestingly enough MPs have a nano cost reduction buff, and you can use sitdown kits on pets. How is this a problem?

It's also still useless outside of IS, Ice Golem, and maybe Biodome. 3 whole bosses in the entire game, better pass up everybody else and recruit only MPs!

you forgot hollow island bosses. ^^

[Notcrattey]

and aoe blinds? those things that engies get yelled at for using because they break calms? (and not everyone has a crat in team, i know its hard to believe)

Who the **** are you teaming with? And where?

[Psikie]

The most retarded engi arguments ever. All I hear is a lot of "I want to be able to cast all my endgame stuff self buffed, when I'm not endgame setup." Endgame setup at the least should be all beta-alpha symbs. NOT implants. As far as all that other jazz, engi's have the best AC buffs, 2nd best reflects AND 2nd best dmg shields in game. 2nd best aoe snares, and blinds. The best pvp defense in refreshable blockers, and have 3 sources of dmg. This is plain silly.