The Rihwen and Carlo will no longer be nodrop.

[Seoin]

I think people are just seeing that engineers are powerful in pvp, and having no sympathy for the pain it is to buff them and their pets. If engineers are too powerful, god forbid, suggest to do something about them being powerful. A tedious procedure clicking items out of backpacks in decon does not make them less powerful. Keeping that will not solve your problem with engineers running up to a soldier and killing him in 3 seconds while being invincible.

You can't balance pvp power with hassle of buffing, and making it less of a hassle to get a pet profession running after it's logged in (since they have to rebuff every time they log, and sometimes when they zone and their pets disappear for no reason) does not make them more powerful.

It's like saying that enforcers are overpowered, so lets fix that by unequipping their ncus every time they zone, just to annoy them. Enforcers would be just as powerful, but people like Esssch would be happy with it because enforcers don't need any love.

I'm still not saying engineers pets should take less nanoskills. But SOMEHOW they should be faster and less tedious to buff, mainly because of the 7min / 10min / 10min / 2min / 2hours-but-wipes-on-zoning nanos, 3 of which to be cast on EACH pet.

Do I actually care? No. I have no plans to press q on my tradeskiller for the rest of the time AO lasts (besides play duels with Deaths!). But this is the way I see it, there is no fun, sense of accomplishment, or power restraint coming from swapping on nanoskill gear to cast short term nanos. It just makes a profession less fun to play, because it's like a job to keep it ready for combat.

[Marinegent]

I think people are just seeing that engineers are powerful in pvp, and having no sympathy for the pain it is to buff them and their pets. If engineers are too powerful, god forbid, suggest to do something about them being powerful. A tedious procedure clicking items out of backpacks in decon does not make them less powerful. Keeping that will not solve your problem with engineers running up to a soldier and killing him in 3 seconds while being invincible.

If Rdord was willing to come forth and say NSD and blockers are admittedly too powerful and should both be toned down a little, not massively, just some. I'd be willing to see many compromises on making engineers better in other respects. Currently, the only compelling argument I see is about the duration of pets which i've already said multiple times that duration should be equal across the board.

However, the strength of the pets are not equal so I do not believe engineers need many tweaks in that regard. As for buffing, many professions have to swap items to buff. My soldier has to swap 4 items to cast any of my endgame buffs which take a mere 1343 psy/sense (without conc perked) which was required to trim down in order to have the IP needed for my soldiers equip.

I made the sacrifice for being pvp enabled so im okay with what i have to swap to buff myself. Swaps exist for pvp toons and i dont agree with taking them away. If there needs to be quality of life changes such as pet timers or perhaps increasing some buffs duration thats one thing. As for the short-term buffs, these several minute ones, i'm of the opinion funcom intended engineers to be required to continue to cast these nanos in order to maintain optimal pet efficiency, if you run an equip that doesn't meet the requirements to do this.. then you shouldn't have that buff long term.

Engineers need many (though not necessarily large) nerfs across the board before we start making them better in my opinon. However dont confuse 'making them better' with 'quality of life' changes.

Example : Duration on pets, buffs cancelling on zone, and things like this fall under quality of life changes that should be adjusted.

Nanoskill requrements, power and cast times to me are buffs. I don't think engineers need to be recasting pets mid-fight, and neither do i feel the other pet professions should be either, if a pet-buff is a short cast time, then the duration should be short as well to keep the play style of 'combat engineer' in tact. If you want your pets at full power at all times.. make the sacrifice to do so. Otherwise I have no sympathy.

[Psikie]

Being honest and fair, I don't really think people are really being levelheaded in regards to his concern.

His concearn is he wants his cake and to be able to eat it too. He should read the rebalance MP doc. It clearly states MP's will have a choice of either good personal dd/pvp or being more caster focused and having top pets and pet buffs for dd/pvp. Kinda sounds a LOT like the issue he is having now. So can't get on board with changing that when it looks like the direction is going to be for more pet classes to be in that boat. Not gonna let engi's off when the future for MP's and probably crats is going to be the same.

I'm still not saying engineers pets should take less nanoskills. But SOMEHOW they should be faster and less tedious to buff, mainly because of the 7min / 10min / 10min / 2min / 2hours-but-wipes-on-zoning nanos, 3 of which to be cast on EACH pet.

Do I actually care? No.

Engineers welcome to the club...it's called being a pet class.

Nanoskill requrements, power and cast times to me are buffs. I don't think engineers need to be recasting pets mid-fight, and neither do i feel the other pet professions should be either, if a pet-buff is a short cast time, then the duration should be short as well to keep the play style of 'combat engineer' in tact. If you want your pets at full power at all times.. make the sacrifice to do so. Otherwise I have no sympathy.

Pretty much what 99% of thread posters are saying.

[Farlath]

If Rdord was willing to come forth and say NSD and blockers are admittedly too powerful and should both be toned down a little, not massively, just some. I'd be willing to see many compromises on making engineers better in other respects. Currently, the only compelling argument I see is about the duration of pets which i've already said multiple times that duration should be equal across the board.

ofc you would say that one of the few ways to kill a soldier under tms/ams needs to be nerfed. Solds have had since what, 2001 to learn to deal with nsd? and 2003 for blockers?

However, the strength of the pets are not equal so I do not believe engineers need many tweaks in that regard. As for buffing, many professions have to swap items to buff. My soldier has to swap 4 items to cast any of my endgame buffs which take a mere 1343 psy/sense (without conc perked) which was required to trim down in order to have the IP needed for my soldiers equip.

nvm that a pvp engie will likely have to swap more than that with conc fully perked. Swapping gear and recasting pets after someone kills them in the middle of a fight is miles away from a sold swapping a few things for a few 2 hour duration buffs.

I made the sacrifice for being pvp enabled so im okay with what i have to swap to buff myself. Swaps exist for pvp toons and i dont agree with taking them away. If there needs to be quality of life changes such as pet timers or perhaps increasing some buffs duration thats one thing. As for the short-term buffs, these several minute ones, i'm of the opinion funcom intended engineers to be required to continue to cast these nanos in order to maintain optimal pet efficiency, if you run an equip that doesn't meet the requirements to do this.. then you shouldn't have that buff long term.

So, you speak for the dev team now?

Engineers need many (though not necessarily large) nerfs across the board before we start making them better in my opinon. However dont confuse 'making them better' with 'quality of life' changes.

Translation: I DON LIEK ENGIE! ENGIE NO DIE WHEN I FACEROLL! NERF NAO!

Nanoskill requrements, power and cast times to me are buffs. I don't think engineers need to be recasting pets mid-fight, and neither do i feel the other pet professions should be either, if a pet-buff is a short cast time, then the duration should be short as well to keep the play style of 'combat engineer' in tact. If you want your pets at full power at all times.. make the sacrifice to do so. Otherwise I have no sympathy.

So if a pet gets killed by an opponent, you think pet classes should be fine with the reduced offensive power? Perhaps we could get funcom to give a class a nano the unequips other players weapons.... which would be functionally the same thing.

I find the ungodly amount of whine coming from soldiers about engineers to be laughable. its worse then the whinefest agents had about RI when it came out. The nanos that get the most tears have been ingame for over 10 years, and yet suddenly they are now overpowered. Its all a sad little play to make sure your favorite class is completely unkillable in pvp.

[Esssch]

I think people are just seeing that engineers are powerful in pvp, and having no sympathy for the pain it is to buff them and their pets. If engineers are too powerful, god forbid, suggest to do something about them being powerful. A tedious procedure clicking items out of backpacks in decon does not make them less powerful. Keeping that will not solve your problem with engineers running up to a soldier and killing him in 3 seconds while being invincible.

You can't balance pvp power with hassle of buffing, and making it less of a hassle to get a pet profession running after it's logged in (since they have to rebuff every time they log, and sometimes when they zone and their pets disappear for no reason) does not make them more powerful.

It's like saying that enforcers are overpowered, so lets fix that by unequipping their ncus every time they zone, just to annoy them. Enforcers would be just as powerful, but people like Esssch would be happy with it because enforcers don't need any love.

I'm still not saying engineers pets should take less nanoskills. But SOMEHOW they should be faster and less tedious to buff, mainly because of the 7min / 10min / 10min / 2min / 2hours-but-wipes-on-zoning nanos, 3 of which to be cast on EACH pet.

Have you actually read this thread? It's not a problem with engineers. It's a problem with Rdord. He's in a full combat setup, not using RHand and Eye symbs, which is about 200 nanoskills that he's losing out on. He uses CC, which has zero nano buffing. Using AS is a personal choice, and one that isn't even necessary for engineers to be viable in PvP. He chose to use AS instead of cast his buffs without swaps. There is nothing wrong with engineer nano skill requirements. End of discussion.

If Rdord was willing to come forth and say NSD and blockers are admittedly too powerful and should both be toned down a little, not massively, just some. I'd be willing to see many compromises on making engineers better in other respects. Currently, the only compelling argument I see is about the duration of pets which i've already said multiple times that duration should be equal across the board.

They are equal. At first they weren't, but when crat and MP pets went from 30 mins to 2 hours, engis cried out in pain because they think this affects them somehow. Then they did the same thing when MP and crat pets went from 2 hours to infinite duration. Engi pets have always been infinite duration.

ofc you would say that one of the few ways to kill a soldier under tms/ams needs to be nerfed. Solds have had since what, 2001 to learn to deal with nsd? and 2003 for blockers?

There's a difference between having an ability that's dangerous and having an ability that completely negates someone else's defenses for 22 seconds. And he's right. It should get some minor nerfs. It shouldn't have 100% uptime. It shouldn't even have 75% or 50% uptime. Would you be fine with it if soldiers had a way to make it so engis couldn't use anything defensive? How long would you survive without blockers and bio cocoon? But I'm sure you wouldn't ask for it to be nerfed, right, you'd just say "We've had since this time to learn to deal with it".

nvm that a pvp engie will likely have to swap more than that with conc fully perked. Swapping gear and recasting pets after someone kills them in the middle of a fight is miles away from a sold swapping a few things for a few 2 hour duration buffs.

It's almost like games don't just hand you everything simply for making a character, and it's possible to make trade-offs. Hmm. This needs some looking into, we'd better get a group of rocket scientists to study this strange phenomenon.

Translation: I DON LIEK ENGIE! ENGIE NO DIE WHEN I FACEROLL! NERF NAO!

Translation: I've gotten so used to being top-tier that I forgot what it feels like to actually have to worry about other players in PvP.

So if a pet gets killed by an opponent, you think pet classes should be fine with the reduced offensive power? Perhaps we could get funcom to give a class a nano the unequips other players weapons.... which would be functionally the same thing.

I find the ungodly amount of whine coming from soldiers about engineers to be laughable. its worse then the whinefest agents had about RI when it came out. The nanos that get the most tears have been ingame for over 10 years, and yet suddenly they are now overpowered. Its all a sad little play to make sure your favorite class is completely unkillable in pvp.

I agree about pets dying in combat. It's a huge hassle, but it's also a viable strategy. We've had since 2001 to figure out ways to deal with it. Engineers have historically had it easier, they've always been able to have another shell ready to go, while MPs couldn't, even while our pets had a 29s cast time too.

LOL @ nanos suddenly being overpowered to keep a favorite class powerful in PvP. This whining from the engineer community is because MP and Crat pet availability is being made more equal. I didn't see engineers whining about how MPs and Crats had to cast their pets every 30 mins or 2 hours and how they should have to do the same thing because it wasn't fair. I also didn't see engis whining that they didn't have to raid Biodome for their main attack pet, and it wasn't fair how they could buy it from a vendor and no other pet class could. But wait, as you said, just whining trying to keep your own profession better than others.

[Psikie]

Have you actually read this thread? It's not a problem with engineers. It's a problem with Rdord. He's in a full combat setup, not using RHand and Eye symbs, which is about 200 nanoskills that he's losing out on. He uses CC, which has zero nano buffing. Using AS is a personal choice, and one that isn't even necessary for engineers to be viable in PvP. He chose to use AS instead of cast his buffs without swaps. There is nothing wrong with engineer nano skill requirements. End of discussion.

It's almost like games don't just hand you everything simply for making a character, and it's possible to make trade-offs. Hmm. This needs some looking into, we'd better get a group of rocket scientists to study this strange phenomenon.

I agree about pets dying in combat. It's a huge hassle, but it's also a viable strategy. We've had since 2001 to figure out ways to deal with it. Engineers have historically had it easier, they've always been able to have another shell ready to go, while MPs couldn't, even while our pets had a 29s cast time too.

+1 nuff said

[Marinegent]

ofc you would say that one of the few ways to kill a soldier under tms/ams needs to be nerfed. Solds have had since what, 2001 to learn to deal with nsd? and 2003 for blockers?

There's several ways to kill soldiers under AMS or simply ignore the soldier until their only defense is out. Yes I play soldier and yes I am advocating the weakening of NSD, however if you do not play a soldier you do not realize how it shuts down soldiers almost completely, especially combined with blockers. It is quite a frusterating mechanic, but I conceded AMS needs a counter in mass pvp. However NSD currently is too powerful, there's a difference between 'counters' and 'makes enemy useless', currently NSD makes soldiers useless. They drop as fast as greens as soon as NSD enters the field and that is wrong. I suggest modifying it to -25% AC since that still drops soldiers low enough on reflects to be killed but at least they'll have a few standing seconds rather than zero (or what feels like zero).

nvm that a pvp engie will likely have to swap more than that with conc fully perked. Swapping gear and recasting pets after someone kills them in the middle of a fight is miles away from a sold swapping a few things for a few 2 hour duration buffs.

Sure, but engineers are also designed to be a caster profession. You might have to swap more things to fully buff but engineers are supposed to be more nanoskill oriented, by trying to use setups that aren't nanoskill oriented you have to make that sacrifice. Soldiers don't have high casting requirements and dont need to be in nanoskill setups since we cast nothing in battle except our reflect shield or the occasional RI and when we use our reflect shield it shuts down our nanoskills completely so we couldn't cast anything even if we wanted to.

Our design is different, you have to live with the consequences of not having nanoskill oriented setups, we dont - because by design you're intended to rely on them more than soldiers. This is both a weakness and a strength in some ways for both professions.

So, you speak for the dev team now?

I said it was my opinion, but it is in some ways founded on facts. Surely nobody at FC would have intended for the nanos in question to be a cast-and-forget and also attach that short of a duration to them. Not to mention the description of the engineer profession is all about making the most of your creations to do your job for you. i don't speak for the dev team nor did I imply that I did, but it's not hard to identify what the intentions of the profession are.

Translation: I DON LIEK ENGIE! ENGIE NO DIE WHEN I FACEROLL! NERF NAO!

Translation : I actually think i'm any less biased because im defending the profession I play!

So if a pet gets killed by an opponent, you think pet classes should be fine with the reduced offensive power? Perhaps we could get funcom to give a class a nano the unequips other players weapons.... which would be functionally the same thing.

Absolutely, you think we arent blowing anything to kill the pet? If your pet dies in combat someone took the time to kill it. They should be rewarded for doing so, and if the engineer in question cant recast his pets because he opted for a personal combat setup rather than a setup that makes the most of his pets then they shouldn't be able to be recast. It's very simple.

I find the ungodly amount of whine coming from soldiers about engineers to be laughable. its worse then the whinefest agents had about RI when it came out. The nanos that get the most tears have been ingame for over 10 years, and yet suddenly they are now overpowered. Its all a sad little play to make sure your favorite class is completely unkillable in pvp.

Laughable.. when a profession counters both your defensive toolset AND your offensive toolset completely but not just for yourself but for EVERYONE attacking that person, something its quite unfair. There is no whining.. just voices asking for changes to game breaking experiences.

[Esssch]

the pet won't be back during the fight it was killed either way.

I'll just leave this here..

[Wyoming]

Make the NSD and blockers share a line. That way, they sacrifice PvP Defense for PvP Offense (In specific situations - as it should be) - Either they can kill the Soldiers and make themselves open to being torn in half by specials which -will- land due to low evades, or enjoy wittling the Soldier down like a Shawshank escape.

[Louderer789]

Make the NSD and blockers share a line. That way, they sacrifice PvP Defense for PvP Offense (In specific situations - as it should be) - Either they can kill the Soldiers and make themselves open to being torn in half by specials which -will- land due to low evades, or enjoy wittling the Soldier down like a Shawshank escape.

An NSDed soldier under AMS still has higher reflect, higher HP, and much higher personal damage than the engineer. Why is turning an ancient nemesis into fodder somehow "balance" or necessary? So while we are going full retard I suggest the following additional balance changes:

Casting AMS locks fullauto skill for 1 minute
casting triple prevents user from using nanobot guard
using dance of fools lowers user AR by 1000
when a trader lands drain his evade goes down by equal amount
etc

Anyway none of this matters to the topic at hand, which is Engineers and convenience. While dord here is the only one left to keep up the good fight, you can be sure he's not alone in his thoughts. I had a 220 fixer and a 220 mp, stage had a 220 enf, alco had a 220 crat. Do you think all of these people were just talking out of their ass when they said it was more enjoyable to pvp on their alts than engineer? Some of these problems would probably be fixed by the rebalance changing engineers to be tradeskill-based, but...we'll never know lol

[Notcrattey]

If we go by the reasoning that engineers must be painful to play because they are decent at one title level of pvp

Please don't bring in other title level engineers, because the issues you bring up here do nothing for us.
Anyways, if you're that upset about having to swap, just use the friggin eye symb. The overall loss isn't huge, deal with the trade.

I feel no sympathy for people who need the ability to do everything in one equip, alternatives and sacrifices exist for a reason.
If it is THAT painful to play your toon using an EoE/eye imp then suck it up and take the loss in AR/AS.

[wonderland]

ofc you would say that one of the few ways to kill a soldier under tms/ams needs to be nerfed. Solds have had since what, 2001 to learn to deal with nsd? and 2003 for blockers?

Reading this was like reading the time someone told me AMS helps against NSD. Of course, the basis behind this was his experience with a "TL5 evade soldier," of course against "TL5 engineers."

Yeah, I almost died then too.

[Farlath]

You know the best way to "balance" engineers? (and one I am personally all for) make AS have a def check (or just remove that damnned as pistol from the game. I loathe that thing) and remove team blockers. Personal blockers don't need a nerf. A dualweilding sold or fix can tear them off all by themselves. (not to mention the old standby of the microphone swap) nsd doesn't need a nerf. If you're dumb enough to stand toe to toe with an engineer (cause you know, no one can outrun engineers with their massive runspeed.... oh, wait) and you rely on reflects for defense you deserve to get steamrolled.

However the ridiculous cast times on a large portion of engineer nanos needs some looking into. To be honest I don't mind the requirements on the nanos, because I don't use AS, so I have my shiny alpha eye and rhand symbs in. (still need conc and 2 swaps to cast everything though) the fact that it takes me 6 minutes to buff my self and both pets is a pain in the butt, not to mention the fact that ncu on the pets is so low that I have to farm the ncu buffing things from pen ever so often just to fully buff pets. Combined buffs, lower ncu requirements, and shorter cast times = better play experience without altering power levels.

[Farlath]

I'll just leave this here..

you kind of have to have the nano requirements to pop the shell. thus the swaps.
Requirements
ToUse
Self MaterialCreation >= 2'046 And
Self SpaceTime >= 2'041 And

a link for you http://msnowe.files.wordpress.com/20...ordummies1.jpg

[Farlath]

There's several ways to kill soldiers under AMS or simply ignore the soldier until their only defense is out. Yes I play soldier and yes I am advocating the weakening of NSD, however if you do not play a soldier you do not realize how it shuts down soldiers almost completely, especially combined with blockers. It is quite a frusterating mechanic, but I conceded AMS needs a counter in mass pvp. However NSD currently is too powerful, there's a difference between 'counters' and 'makes enemy useless', currently NSD makes soldiers useless. They drop as fast as greens as soon as NSD enters the field and that is wrong. I suggest modifying it to -25% AC since that still drops soldiers low enough on reflects to be killed but at least they'll have a few standing seconds rather than zero (or what feels like zero).

ironically my only 220 toons are engineer and soldier. I'm very familiar with both professions toolsets. I also know that if I go toe to toe with an engineer I'm going to loose on my soldier. I have a chance if I play it smart, stay well away from his nsd, and ip nr so pet snare won't get me. Its still a hell of a fight, esp since my sold is an assault rifle soldier so i'm relying on perks/regulars for damage, and yes I usually loose, but its hardly "zero standing seconds"

Sure, but engineers are also designed to be a caster profession. You might have to swap more things to fully buff but engineers are supposed to be more nanoskill oriented, by trying to use setups that aren't nanoskill oriented you have to make that sacrifice. Soldiers don't have high casting requirements and dont need to be in nanoskill setups since we cast nothing in battle except our reflect shield or the occasional RI and when we use our reflect shield it shuts down our nanoskills completely so we couldn't cast anything even if we wanted to.

Our design is different, you have to live with the consequences of not having nanoskill oriented setups, we dont - because by design you're intended to rely on them more than soldiers. This is both a weakness and a strength in some ways for both professions.

the irony of saying that engineers are a caster profession is that soldiers have reflects, heals (a crappy one, but one none the less) and taunts that are all designed to be cast mid fight. Engineers have 1 nano that is designed to be cast mid fight; and thats a bot heal. (with the possible exception of SOTOS, but the longer duration on ISOTOS nixes that) you can recast nsd or blinds to refresh them at the time you want, but they are long duration pulsing auras, not single cast nanos. Soldiers are far more of a caster profession than engineers in that regard.

I said it was my opinion, but it is in some ways founded on facts. Surely nobody at FC would have intended for the nanos in question to be a cast-and-forget and also attach that short of a duration to them. Not to mention the description of the engineer profession is all about making the most of your creations to do your job for you. i don't speak for the dev team nor did I imply that I did, but it's not hard to identify what the intentions of the profession are.

The problem with having pets do most of the work for you is that the widow hasn't been updated since 15.5.5. I'm reasonably comfortable in saying that players have grown in both offense and defense a huge amount since the pet came out. OFC, if pet classes pets had gone through the same power creep as players have with LE and LOX, you'd be howling for attack pet nerfs.

Translation : I actually think i'm any less biased because im defending the profession I play!

As I said before, I play both professions. I think engineers are fine other than needing a few small tweaks. (which I mentioned in another post) Soldiers have a glut of offensive and defensive power, and they need some sort of counter.

Absolutely, you think we arent blowing anything to kill the pet? If your pet dies in combat someone took the time to kill it. They should be rewarded for doing so, and if the engineer in question cant recast his pets because he opted for a personal combat setup rather than a setup that makes the most of his pets then they shouldn't be able to be recast. It's very simple.

So, thats a yes to my question, then?

Laughable.. when a profession counters both your defensive toolset AND your offensive toolset completely but not just for yourself but for EVERYONE attacking that person, something its quite unfair. There is no whining.. just voices asking for changes to game breaking experiences.

You might want to open up the "perk actions" menu and look at that looooong line of things that blockers do nothing to counter. and really? you end a sentence with "its quite unfair." and then on the very next one say "there is no whining"? rofl.

[ManGarage]

so much whining, reroll crat or mp then if engie pets are SO unbearable, i can see how 5k AR pets can be such a problem that you have to whine about making them better :S pls go away troll

[Esssch]

If you're dumb enough to stand toe to toe with an engineer (cause you know, no one can outrun engineers with their massive runspeed.... oh, wait)

Mm, ya, there's definitely no possible way around that, right guys?

you kind of have to have the nano requirements to pop the shell. thus the swaps.
Requirements
ToUse
Self MaterialCreation >= 2'046 And
Self SpaceTime >= 2'041 And

a link for you http://msnowe.files.wordpress.com/20...ordummies1.jpg

All I see is problem solved: 1 2 3

[wonderland]

You know the best way to "balance" engineers? (and one I am personally all for) make AS have a def check (or just remove that damnned as pistol from the game. I loathe that thing) and remove team blockers. Personal blockers don't need a nerf. A dualweilding sold or fix can tear them off all by themselves. (not to mention the old standby of the microphone swap) nsd doesn't need a nerf. If you're dumb enough to stand toe to toe with an engineer (cause you know, no one can outrun engineers with their massive runspeed.... oh, wait) and you rely on reflects for defense you deserve to get steamrolled.

Good one. If you take a look at your soldier which you claim to have, you should also see the runspeed of your own soldier. If you take a look at it in comparison to the engineer, you shouldn't notice much difference. Then you consider the root grafts, which soldiers aren't able to use under their AMS debuff, compare it to the fact that you are able to use it all the time. Damn, what a strong argument.

Another genius idea. Make aimed shot have a defense check, so those evaders get even more power. Because there's definately not enough strong evade professions in the game, such as adventurer, fixer, bureaucrat, shade, and martial artist!

I must have missed the cocoon, evades to the point of being effective against an engineer, monstrous healing, root and snare resistance, roots, snares, init debuffs, and damage to nano that soldiers have. You know, what "Isn't relying on reflects." Because, apparently, soldiers have other options of dealing with engineers.

ironically my only 220 toons are engineer and soldier. I'm very familiar with both professions toolsets.

Playing a character doesn't mean you understand it.

I also know that if I go toe to toe with an engineer I'm going to loose on my soldier. I have a chance if I play it smart, stay well away from his nsd, and ip nr so pet snare won't get me. Its still a hell of a fight, esp since my sold is an assault rifle soldier so i'm relying on perks/regulars for damage, and yes I usually loose, but its hardly "zero standing seconds"

No, you have no chance at all against a competent engineer. Unless you just run away and start using your recall beacon, then we're talking about "Chance of not dying."

and your whole "LOL WUT IF U IP NANO RESIST" argument is killed when you consider that root grafts exist, and that blockers don't even get used up before the engineer has killed the soldier. Oh, and that soldiers have poop runspeed.

the irony of saying that engineers are a caster profession is that soldiers have reflects, heals (a crappy one, but one none the less) and taunts that are all designed to be cast mid fight.

Oh, under the -2000 nanoskills debuff of their AMS? Thanks for telling me about how much soldiers cast. Or are you going to talk about how soldiers could use a root graft before AMS, put themself in nano recharge to get half their health removed before they hit AMS?

The problem with having pets do most of the work for you is that the widow hasn't been updated since 15.5.5. I'm reasonably comfortable in saying that players have grown in both offense and defense a huge amount since the pet came out. OFC, if pet classes pets had gone through the same power creep as players have with LE and LOX, you'd be howling for attack pet nerfs.

WOW WIDOW HASN'T GOTTEN MORE POWER THAN IT NEEDS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!!?!1?!??!?!?!? !?!/1/1/!?!?!?!?!?1"!?1?!?! WOW NEEDS BUFFS PLS LOGIC WOW

BETTER GIVEN THE WIDOWMAKER 5 WEAPONS BECAUSE SINCE LOST EDEN SOLDIERS GAINED COCOON, EVADES, REAL HEALS, ROOTS, SNARES, INIT DEBUFFS, DRAINS, AND DAMAGE TO NANO TO DEAL WITH THE WIDOWMAKER. I MEAN IT'S ONLY BALANCED!

I THINK ENGINEERS NEED A BUFF THAT GIVES A 25% CHANCE FOR THEIR PETS TO DOUBLE ATTACK LIKE THIS ONE!

Everyone, even the forumgoing PvMers, know that the engineer pets do too much damage.

As I said before, I play both professions. I think engineers are fine other than needing a few small tweaks. (which I mentioned in another post) Soldiers have a glut of offensive and defensive power, and they need some sort of counter.

Those are called debuffs. Considering this is one of those games where ability to reduce chance to hit and deal damage to you was given out like candy, you know. and laff at engineers being balanced.

You might want to open up the "perk actions" menu and look at that looooong line of things that blockers do nothing to counter.

There's another thing that deals with that, it's called Bio Shielding line.

[Slayerphazon]

Oh, under the -2000 nanoskills debuff of their AMS? Thanks for telling me about how much soldiers cast.

cough sols can use taunts while in ams cough

[Ahndracorvid]

Hi.

To make up for my lack of ability to keep track of where this thread seems to have gone, here:

Have a picture of an owl.