The Rihwen and Carlo will no longer be nodrop.

[Esssch]

I see we have more people here with reading comprehension problems....

Mostly just you, though, since you can't seem to understand any sort of context.

Edit: healpet on informant can be a lifesaver. I don't know of any other class that can heal npcs. :P

AoE heals like Bio Rejuv should work.

and they're only useful if you can't find a soldier. hence my use of the term "second class" team reflects.

Just like MPs are second class damage, second class heals, second class CC. You've got reflects that are a whole 2% worse than RRFE, which are still completely viable if no soldier is around. If no crat is around, people aren't going to bring an MP for our init debuffs, they just won't raid.

interestingly enough MPs have a nano cost reduction buff, and you can use sitdown kits on pets. How is this a problem?

Interestingly enough, engineers have access to symbiants that raise their nanoskills, and mochams can still be cast on them. How is the reason this thread created a problem?

Shows how much you really know, though, and how little reading comprehension you have. We were discussing how healpets somehow qualify as a HoT with an infinite duration, while doctors can't be considered the same for some reason having to do with nanocost. Mortificant doesn't actually run out of nano, but Belamorte and below do, quite frequently.

you forgot hollow island bosses. ^^

I used to run a Hollow Island service. I never once had to use NSD on any of the bosses. You must not be very good at that encounter.

[Notcrattey]

I used to run a Hollow Island service. I never once had to use NSD on any of the bosses. You must not be very good at that encounter.

Not to mention that engis are about 3000 times more useful in that particular encounter.

[Farlath]

Mostly just you, though, since you can't seem to understand any sort of context.

you wound me, good sir!

AoE heals like Bio Rejuv should work.

possibly one of the most asinine statements I have ever seen. Have you actually done informant? Or S28?

Just like MPs are second class damage, second class heals, second class CC. You've got reflects that are a whole 2% worse than RRFE, which are still completely viable if no soldier is around. If no crat is around, people aren't going to bring an MP for our init debuffs, they just won't raid.

But you actually have damage, heals, cc, debuffs, damage mitigation, and excellent survivability. Engineers have damage and damage mitigation. Care to whine some more about how versatile your profession is?

Interestingly enough, engineers have access to symbiants that raise their nanoskills, and mochams can still be cast on them. How is the reason this thread created a problem?

quite simply because I can't strap an mp to my ass all the time ingame, and I have yet to see any buffs i can get that will significantly reduce the amount of time it takes me to buff.

Shows how much you really know, though, and how little reading comprehension you have. We were discussing how healpets somehow qualify as a HoT with an infinite duration, while doctors can't be considered the same for some reason having to do with nanocost. Mortificant doesn't actually run out of nano, but Belamorte and below do, quite frequently.

I thought we were discussing endgame problems? If you are using bela for endgame you might want to reroll.

I used to run a Hollow Island service. I never once had to use NSD on any of the bosses. You must not be very good at that encounter.

I never said you needed nsd, it does however stop the big aoe nukes if you have lower hp/level teammates that are participating.

[Farlath]

The most retarded engi arguments ever. All I hear is a lot of "I want to be able to cast all my endgame stuff self buffed, when I'm not endgame setup." Endgame setup at the least should be all beta-alpha symbs. NOT implants. As far as all that other jazz, engi's have the best AC buffs, 2nd best reflects AND 2nd best dmg shields in game. 2nd best aoe snares, and blinds. The best pvp defense in refreshable blockers, and have 3 sources of dmg. This is plain silly.

I'm in full alpha symbs with conc 10 perked and still need 2 swaps to cast everything. should I just drop all semblance of combat viability and slap on some cs and a remod and sit around making carb? I am in NO WAY in a pvp setup. It still takes 6 minutes to buff. This is retarded.

Furthermore, by saying that character should be in only alpha/beta symbs, you are saying that we should lock ourselves to the weapon lines supported by symbs/perks. maybe I want to use an mbc, or an assault rifle, or piercing. If I don't use pistols or grenade I'm playing wrong? I was unaware that we were required to be in cookie cutter setups.

[srompu]

I'm in full alpha symbs with conc 10 perked and still need 2 swaps to cast everything. should I just drop all semblance of combat viability and slap on some cs and a remod and sit around making carb? I am in NO WAY in a pvp setup. It still takes 6 minutes to buff. This is retarded.

Post setup. Earlier in the thread a trox with AI10 and Mechanic perked took one instant 1500 complit swap. Even if you do two swaps for endgame buffs, that's pretty reasonable compared to other professions. How much gear would you need to change to cast everything without swaps?

I doubt your buff time has much to do with swaps. I probably swap more items on Agent than you do on Engi, and the whole business is done in ~10-20 seconds each way, depending whether I use a scope.

Furthermore, by saying that character should be in only alpha/beta symbs, you are saying that we should lock ourselves to the weapon lines supported by symbs/perks. maybe I want to use an mbc, or an assault rifle, or piercing. If I don't use pistols or grenade I'm playing wrong? I was unaware that we were required to be in cookie cutter setups.

Not playing wrong, of course, but it doesn't make sense to perform equally well in all setups. The idea behind buffs, different coloured IP, and perk/research support is to make professions different. You have support for RE, shotgun, pistol, grenade, and MA. If you want to make a piercing Engi, you should do as well as a pistol Enfo.

Off-topic, I bet pistol Enfo would tank like a mofo with taunt procs.
Edit: I just realized I may have left out city nanoskills, so trox AI10 Mech10 engi might self everything. Someone check plz.

[Esssch]

possibly one of the most asinine statements I have ever seen. Have you actually done informant? Or S28?

Of course not. I've played this game for 12 years and am in full endgame setup (you know, since my setup is actually easily found in my signature, while your's is just "well I can't do this in my setup" without actually posting it) and I've never done Informant or S28.

I don't think it's possible to argue with the amount of stupidity you exude, but I'll make a valiant effort of it.

But you actually have damage, heals, cc, debuffs, damage mitigation, and excellent survivability. Engineers have damage and damage mitigation. Care to whine some more about how versatile your profession is?

The only response that's remotely reasonable to this: lolololololololol.

quite simply because I can't strap an mp to my ass all the time ingame, and I have yet to see any buffs i can get that will significantly reduce the amount of time it takes me to buff.

Here you go! Notice the part that buffs Nano Init. It's almost like you don't even understand this game :/

I thought we were discussing endgame problems? If you are using bela for endgame you might want to reroll.

We had apparently moved back to Engi vs MP. But I get it, it's cool. Engineers don't want to talk about lower levels, any problems there just don't affect you and are thus completely irrelevant. Instead, we'll continue making silly claims like healpet being an infinite duration HoT.

I never said you needed nsd, it does however stop the big aoe nukes if you have lower hp/level teammates that are participating.

They should be out on the little peninsula anyways, where I'm fairly confident the nuke doesn't reach. Maybe this applies to froob raids? Hm, I feel like you said something that relates to this...

I thought we were discussing endgame problems?

Oh. Oh yeah.

I'm in full alpha symbs with conc 10 perked and still need 2 swaps to cast everything. should I just drop all semblance of combat viability and slap on some cs and a remod and sit around making carb? I am in NO WAY in a pvp setup. It still takes 6 minutes to buff. This is retarded.

Time taken != requirements need to be lowered. What armor are you wearing if you don't want to put on CS? I'm assuming not any other sort of Combined, cause that's mostly PvP armor and there's much better choices for PvE.

Maybe you need to run some DB1/2 to get a few gear upgrades?

Furthermore, by saying that character should be in only alpha/beta symbs, you are saying that we should lock ourselves to the weapon lines supported by symbs/perks. maybe I want to use an mbc, or an assault rifle, or piercing. If I don't use pistols or grenade I'm playing wrong? I was unaware that we were required to be in cookie cutter setups.

Yes? If you want to have a setup that's different to what the current developers intended (AKA grenade/pistol/remod), then you have to make sacrifices. That's how the game works. If you don't like it, I can recommend Free Realms?

[Wakizaka]

220 Atrox Engi with ql300 Large City / Mining Ops, Comp Attribs / Nano Skills, all research, Conc10, Mechanic 10 has the following nano skill amounts.

MM: 1490
BM: 1265
PM: 1268
MC: 1602
TS: 1617
SI: 1283

I cba to make an auno setup with gear so someone else can take their setup minus perks / research, and add their numbers to mine.

[Lazy]

Endgame setup at the least should be all beta-alpha symbs. NOT implants.

wat. tell that to soldiers and fixers, who's endgame setups REQUIRE eoe and healdelta leg implants.

tell that to crats who require burst/aad right arms

tell that to docs who require as/mc/ninit eyes

tell that to agents who require AAD left arms.

need i continue?

[Psikie]

wat. tell that to soldiers and fixers, who's endgame setups REQUIRE eoe and healdelta leg implants.

tell that to crats who require burst/aad right arms

tell that to docs who require as/mc/ninit eyes

tell that to agents who require AAD left arms.

need i continue?

Come on dude, you know better. Yea I said it. The vision of the devs is just what I said betas-alphas endgame setup. With those inherent weaknesses of a few symbs on purpose. Otherwise there would not be prof reqs on symbs. Mmmkay?

Now if you CHOOSE to make a different setup then thats fine and dandy but dont QQ about how your non statndard setup doesn't perform like a "standard" toon of that proffession. If you want to setup for pvp again thats a CHOICE to make how you do so. So if your setup CHOICE requires a lot of swaps you can CHOOSE to continue to use it or go to a setup that doesn't require as many swaps. So it is your CHOICE to gimp yourself into being more swap dependant for a stronger pvp setup that is still a free CHOICE. Nuff said~

[Lazy]

Come on dude, you know better. Yea I said it. The vision of the devs is just what I said betas-alphas endgame setup. With those inherent weaknesses of a few symbs on purpose. Otherwise there would not be prof reqs on symbs. Mmmkay?

my current infractions prevent me from telling you exactly what i think of your opinion.

[Psikie]

my current infractions prevent me from telling you exactly what i think of your opinion.

Your current infraction points should tell you what the forum mods/fc devs etc think of your posts.

[Lazy]

Your current infraction points should tell you what the forum mods/fc devs etc think of your posts.

yes. sadly calling people out on their stupidity is against the rules which is hwy i'm not allowed to do it anymore unless i sugarcoat it.

[Anarrina]

Moved this to a more appropriate forum since its wandered far afield.

Also, you two stop bickering about infractions, thank you.

[Farlath]

Of course not. I've played this game for 12 years and am in full endgame setup (you know, since my setup is actually easily found in my signature, while your's is just "well I can't do this in my setup" without actually posting it) and I've never done Informant or S28.

I don't think it's possible to argue with the amount of stupidity you exude, but I'll make a valiant effort of it.

I wear full edb armor with ofab helm/gloves. vts/snipers friend ect for crit with amep/idep. I swap to ejathos/healers cloak when soloing for the extra hp and %heal eff for bot heals. And saying bio rejuv is enough to keep informant alive is far far more stupid than anything I've managed to say.

The only response that's remotely reasonable to this: lolololololololol.

Once again, you can't argue the point so you say something idiotic.

Here you go! Notice the part that buffs Nano Init. It's almost like you don't even understand this game :/

A whopping 30 nanoinit. I've got 2.5k nanoini, still takes 20ish secs to cast each pet at full aggro. Once again, a completely asinine statement. If you are trolling, you are failing badly. If you actually think that will make a difference you are completely delusional.

We had apparently moved back to Engi vs MP. But I get it, it's cool. Engineers don't want to talk about lower levels, any problems there just don't affect you and are thus completely irrelevant. Instead, we'll continue making silly claims like healpet being an infinite duration HoT.

Lol if you want to get into the problems engineers have at lower levels we'll need a new thread. low pet ar, low pet hp, no evades, low def, no ar, and on and on.

They should be out on the little peninsula anyways, where I'm fairly confident the nuke doesn't reach. Maybe this applies to froob raids? Hm, I feel like you said something that relates to this...

Way to take something and run into left field to try and twist it into supporting you. Can you contest that nsd stops the nukes? No? Then my point stands.

Time taken != requirements need to be lowered. What armor are you wearing if you don't want to put on CS? I'm assuming not any other sort of Combined, cause that's mostly PvP armor and there's much better choices for PvE.

Maybe you need to run some DB1/2 to get a few gear upgrades?

see above for retort

Yes? If you want to have a setup that's different to what the current developers intended (AKA grenade/pistol/remod), then you have to make sacrifices. That's how the game works. If you don't like it, I can recommend Free Realms?

Perhaps you should actually read what I've posted about my setup repeatedly in this thread... oh wait, I forgot, you only see what you want to. Perhaps you have dyslexia? There are some very good programs that can help you if so.

[Farlath]

Post setup. Earlier in the thread a trox with AI10 and Mechanic perked took one instant 1500 complit swap. Even if you do two swaps for endgame buffs, that's pretty reasonable compared to other professions. How much gear would you need to change to cast everything without swaps?

I doubt your buff time has much to do with swaps. I probably swap more items on Agent than you do on Engi, and the whole business is done in ~10-20 seconds each way, depending whether I use a scope.


Not playing wrong, of course, but it doesn't make sense to perform equally well in all setups. The idea behind buffs, different coloured IP, and perk/research support is to make professions different. You have support for RE, shotgun, pistol, grenade, and MA. If you want to make a piercing Engi, you should do as well as a pistol Enfo.

Off-topic, I bet pistol Enfo would tank like a mofo with taunt procs.
Edit: I just realized I may have left out city nanoskills, so trox AI10 Mech10 engi might self everything. Someone check plz.

swaps for me aren't a huge pain. its the time it takes to buff, especially casting/buffing pets. I quit pvping on my engie because of the fact that if you want any sort of offensive power, you have to sacrifice a boatload of nanoskills thus compounding the swapping/buffing issue. (that and constant "BLOXORZ PLOX! BACON WRAP PLOX!" at towers, but thats an altogether different issue.)

the irony of all the screaming and whining is that the point of the thread wasn't asking for any sort of pet ar boost, was just asking for buffing to be made faster/easier.

[Esssch]

220 Atrox Engi with ql300 Large City / Mining Ops, Comp Attribs / Nano Skills, all research, Conc10, Mechanic 10 has the following nano skill amounts.

MM: 1490
BM: 1265
PM: 1268
MC: 1602
TS: 1617
SI: 1283

I cba to make an auno setup with gear so someone else can take their setup minus perks / research, and add their numbers to mine.

I decided to look into this.

Atrox ability caps at 220 according to Auno:
Strength 912
Agility 780
Stamina 912
Intelligence 600
Sense 600
Psychic 600

Plus Comp Attributes (+12), Large Org HQ (+9), and using Rdord's setup:
Strength 1212
Agility 1147
Stamina 1259
Intelligence 947
Sense 996
Psychic 940

Maxed abilities + nano skills on 220 trox engi according to Darkbane's Skill Emulator:
MM: 1250
BM: 1090
PM: 1090
MC: 1265
TS: 1259
SI: 1105

Trickle down from Rdord's setup + buffs:
MM: 87
BM: 87
PM: 89
MC: 87
TS: 88
SI: 85

Plus Comp Expertise (20), Mining Ops (36), setup and trickle:
MM: 1959
BM: 1714
PM: 1629
MC: 1894
TS: 1909
SI: 1640

Max requirements for engi nanos:
MM: 2051
BM: 837
PM: 1034
MC: 2147
TS: 2147
SI: 1034

So with his setup as-is:
MM: -92
BM: +877
PM: +595
MC: -253
TS: -238
SI: +606

With Eye/RHand symbs in:
MM: -92 + 9 trickle = -81
MC: -253 + 9 trickle + 58 Eye + 87 RHand = -99
TS: -238 + 9 trickle + 58 Eye + 87 RHand = -84

Most of that would be taken care of by +75 from Research Attunement Device, and of course not being setup to sacrifice nanoskills for combat (for instance stacking CC). Not to mention that's still on a trox. Any other race would have it much easier.

I wear full edb armor with ofab helm/gloves. vts/snipers friend ect for crit with amep/idep. I swap to ejathos/healers cloak when soloing for the extra hp and %heal eff for bot heals. And saying bio rejuv is enough to keep informant alive is far far more stupid than anything I've managed to say.

Oh man, where to start. First, I just showed above that everything is self-castable BY AN ATROX, especially if wearing the EDB pieces I posted that give +90 to all nanoskills.

Second, let's go back and reread what we both posted, shall we?

You said:

I don't know of any other class that can heal npcs. :P

I said:

AoE heals like Bio Rejuv should work.

It's almost like I didn't say what you're claiming I said. You should really figure out your own arguments or you'll simply continue to get embarrassed in a public forum.

A whopping 30 nanoinit. I've got 2.5k nanoini, still takes 20ish secs to cast each pet at full aggro. Once again, a completely asinine statement. If you are trolling, you are failing badly. If you actually think that will make a difference you are completely delusional.

Here you go, since I've already done the calculations. MPs spend more time in recharge than engis, which is unaffected by nano init, and thus we take longer to cast buffs than you at higher nano inits. Try to keep up, ya?

Lol if you want to get into the problems engineers have at lower levels we'll need a new thread. low pet ar, low pet hp, no evades, low def, no ar, and on and on.

Way to take something and run into left field to try and twist it into supporting you. Can you contest that nsd stops the nukes? No? Then my point stands.

lol you're the one that said we're talking about endgame. I continued talking about endgame, now we're suddenly talking about non-endgame? You should really make up your mind, it's getting very hard to take anything you say seriously.

Perhaps you should actually read what I've posted about my setup repeatedly in this thread... oh wait, I forgot, you only see what you want to. Perhaps you have dyslexia? There are some very good programs that can help you if so.

Ooh, that sounds like a good idea, let's go on a little trip down memory lane, shall we?

Let's see, all of your posts...
No mention of setup
None here either
Here's a small mention, though all you say is "I don't use AS" and that you've got CoNC10 and alphas in
Nope
Nothing here
Man, this isn't looking good for you
Nuh uh
Negative
Well, you kinda did here, but really you just repeated that you don't use an AS setup
Back to nothing
Again nope
Trying to be wittily insulting
Nothing here either
More attempts at being wittily insulting
Still looking
No mention of your setup here, but we're starting to get close to the end of the thread
Look, you almost mention your setup here! I mean, it's still mostly information we already have, but no we know you have more than just Eye and Hand symbs in!
Wow, you finally mention your setup, in the post where you try to call me out on not reading your previous posts! Landmark victory!
Another post while I've been typing this one up, no real mention of setup there, though

Well that didn't turn out quite the way you expected, did it?

[Psikie]

I decided to look into this.

Second, let's go back and reread what we both posted, shall we?

Ooh, that sounds like a good idea, let's go on a little trip down memory lane, shall we?

Well that didn't turn out quite the way you expected, did it?

HILARIOUS!!! Looks like someone got a WHAMMY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whammy!...ress_Your_Luck

[Farlath]

I started to reply to you point by point, but its just not worth the effort. All you've proven with your massive piles of calcs is that

A. An engineer still has to swap unless you want to run around in equipment that does zero for you in a combat situation.

B. It still takes a ridiculous amount of time to get combat ready for an engineer. I don't care how long it takes metas to buff. If it does take that long perhaps you should be asking for a reduction in cast/recharge times yourself.

C. metas are capable of the most epic levels of whine ever seen in AO.


everything you've proposed that "proves" those points wrong results in a toon that is sub par in both pvp and pvm; which indubitably you'd love to see engineers become, but hey them's the breaks.


oh and btw

1b per piece you say? Hmm, sounds like it might be time to resub just to sell my CSS chest.

perhaps you should actually PLAY the game every once in a while. I realize forum pvp is cool and all but some of us actually get experience in the game. ciao baby!

[Farlath]

HILARIOUS!!! Looks like someone got a WHAMMY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whammy!...ress_Your_Luck

Hi me-too! http://www.politicsforum.org/images/...s/flame_02.php

[Psikie]

Hi me-too! http://www.politicsforum.org/images/...s/flame_02.php

Even more hilarious, when you been around playing AO as long as I have from froob status pre-NW. I've seen everything and lived and leveled through some of the most brutal periods of AO. Engi's have it so good atm from days past the only people that QQ about anything engi atm are people that have rolled and played endgame engi for less time than AI/LE has been out. Maybe you should do some homework and see how bad engi's had it back in the day.

I am not dismissing the fact that you lucked into a sweet spot time in engi career, just saying the grass isn't always greener on other side and to see the improvements engi's have gotten over time vs other profs that makes them desirable in teams BOTH pvm and pvp you should have very little if anything to QQ about.