MA Balance

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Except CT's would have been critted, and taking more damage from MA's than likely any other profession. Then you also consider the weapons available to player's back then. There were no mortiig weapons, SL weapons or AI weapons. When notum wars was introduced I believe dyna weapons and CoH weapons were yet to have been introduced even.

This means that the only real choices players had to deal damage would have been the old RK weapons (most of which are highly dependant on critical damage) or TOTW weapons.

I believe, comparatively, that an MA's fist damage along with their crits would have been superior damage than anything else available.

Sure.

IF

The CT was a crit CT.

Thats like... what 1/20? I mean sure in the 5% case that it's a crit CT, youre bang on. But thats only 5% of the time, the rest of the time, thats a bad assumption.

[Psikie]

Sure.

IF

The CT was a crit CT.

Thats like... what 1/20? I mean sure in the 5% case that it's a crit CT, youre bang on. But thats only 5% of the time, the rest of the time, thats a bad assumption.

Also keep in mind, dps wasn't determined by towers, it was by pvm. And there are more tower types available today than were back then.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

And it's still PVM.

Thats why we're having this discussion, and it's also why it doesn't matter :P

[Psikie]

And it's still PVM.

Interesting, towers are pvm...but capture the flag is pvp. Very curious indeed.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

ok I think this thread got derailed.

The point I'm trying to make is that MA's in a PVP setup suffer significant DPS losses in PVM.

Furthermore, because it's not beneficial to be loading up on HP in PVP, most MA's dont' have enough HP to even remotely fill the offtank role.

[Gatester]

I PVP'd just fine with 21k to 23k max health, also had some MA's say they would never go back to low health after trying 17k-19k builds. My problem was killing players I couldn't perk but I was setup for survival/tanking and not offense (AI 30 and I could have just used MR anyways).

What good are low health setups for most PVP anyways? I can take a lot more AS's on my MA with 30k max health in a war than some MA who has 12k max health. Running around borealis with tons of health and def is also hilarious and works fantastic with extra healing. I don't think there is a single profession where going low health is considered optimal at 220 anymore, even fixers are stacking on tons of health and using it quite effectively.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I PVP'd just fine with 21k to 23k max health, also had some MA's say they would never go back to low health after trying 17k-19k builds. My problem was killing players I couldn't perk but I was setup for survival/tanking and not offense (AI 30 and I could have just used MR anyways).

What good are low health setups for most PVP anyways? I can take a lot more AS's on my MA with 30k max health in a war than some MA who has 12k max health. Running around borealis with tons of health and def is also hilarious and works fantastic with extra healing. I don't think there is a single profession where going low health is considered optimal at 220 anymore, even fixers are stacking on tons of health and using it quite effectively.

Well, I don't disagree.

I still feel like a low setup for dueling is best, but I haven't had a low HP setup in years, and frankly, you lose out on too much off/def if you are really trying to do a low low low HP setup.

That was a secondary concern anyway, the bigger issue is DPS loss in going from tripe wield+fast attack to fist

[Raelil]

Classes should be nerfed/buffed form a PvM point of view. As this game is mainly focused on PvM, PvP "balances" should not affect PvM. If both are being focused nothing will ever change, as those 2 will never be able to balanced together imo.

I do agree MAs could use a slight DD buff, tho theyre in no way one of the crappier DD classes.

[If6was9]

Except CT's would have been critted, and taking more damage from MA's than likely any other profession. Then you also consider the weapons available to player's back then. There were no mortiig weapons, SL weapons or AI weapons. When notum wars was introduced I believe dyna weapons and CoH weapons were yet to have been introduced even.

This means that the only real choices players had to deal damage would have been the old RK weapons (most of which are highly dependant on critical damage) or TOTW weapons.

I believe, comparatively, that an MA's fist damage along with their crits would have been superior damage than anything else available.

MAs had crit buffing towers in the original version of NW. Nerfed of course.

[Le-Quack]

if anyting neds love with ma's its the tl 5 healing nanos that ned a 50%+ reduced time on heal. and nr could be boosted somehow by 150 points
should be tl 5 version of delerium and sappo
and there should be acces to a init debuff perk.. tl 5 ma has 0 init debuffs except from bbcs.
i would suggest to do something that havent been done before.. and that is to let martial artists to perk 10 perks into the alien perkline Xuyun for red dawn

[McKnuckleSamwich]

The gap after level 145 (8 perks) in the AI line is stupid.

I dunno about 10 perks for red dusk as that would mean absolutely destroying every single doctor/agent/advy, but I do support some adjustment in general.

I reckon we just gotta wait for when some rebalance come around. say like 2015? that's only 377ish days away now.

[Le-Quack]

The gap after level 145 (8 perks) in the AI line is stupid.

I dunno about 10 perks for red dusk as that would mean absolutely destroying every single doctor/agent/advy, but I do support some adjustment in general.

I reckon we just gotta wait for when some rebalance come around. say like 2015? that's only 377ish days away now.

2015 so soon? :P

[McKnuckleSamwich]

hurts donit.

[Burgly]

One aspect of DPSing that this conversation hasn't covered is the relative lack of compatibility between PVP setup MA's and PVM requirements.

A properly PVP setup MA is about 60% effective in PVM as a DPS prof.

A properly PVP setup Shade is about 90% effective in PVM as a DPS prof.

MA loses a LARGE chunk of DPS capability when switching to pure fist. With the loss of a nice quick recharging fast attack on offer with a triple wield kuma tonfa setup as the best case scenario for PVM MA's, you're looking at a loss of 25 hits per minute (45% loss), significantly impacting proc chance, and becoming significantly more dependent on target AC's to produce good damage.

Not really, as pvp shades dont usually perk TR, that means massive dmg and health drain loss, more like 70% as effective as a DPS prof :S maybe less.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Not really, as pvp shades dont usually perk TR, that means massive dmg and health drain loss, more like 70% as effective as a DPS prof :S maybe less.

I'm playing a PVM setup shade with TR perked.

I'll unperk it and I'll report the damage loss.

Unfortunately I'm not really good at playing shade so it'll end up being a pretty rough comparison.

My feeling is that I can't see one perkline reducing dmg output by 30%+ though, that seems completely unintuitive.

[Burgly]

Having TR perked and having the buffs from TR running u gain a total of 550 or something dmg (cant remember exactly how much).

[Cratertina]

For all it's worth MA absolutley rocks at lvl 150. Especialy in S10 and other RK content. Playing any other char at that level feels slugish and lame.

hehe Keepour at same level for example, hardly epic.

That being said, There would be absolutley no harm in making 220 MA the best DD in game there is right now. Very few are around and it'd be kinda fun to see them poping around in highly gimpy glasscannon builds.

There are many many professions that could use similar upgrade. Agents, MP's, NT's, Keepers, to name a few. That being said MA should perform much like shade at 220, yet it somehow doesn't by about 25% or so. Maybe give MA a stack of DD perklines similar to shades, so you have two shortcut bars full of perks you need to hit in order. That'd bring it close to shades in DD and make MA's less afk friendly.

Norris's foot,
Lee's fist, could be names for perklines.

Gif moar to 220 MA's!

[NayNay9]

Even the weapon of choice for most PvM MAs is dumbed down


The weapons (Kuma-Tonfa) right and left have a Max Beneficial Skill of only 2600, while all other Xan weapons are 2750 MBS

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Even the weapon of choice for most PvM MAs is dumbed down


The weapons (Kuma-Tonfa) right and left have a Max Beneficial Skill of only 2600, while all other Xan weapons are 2750 MBS

I never noticed that, and I'm kinda annoyed by it now that I read it.

[Psikie]

I never noticed that, and I'm kinda annoyed by it now that I read it.

Why? I thought fists were still your primary weapon anyway?