for how loong does funcom think we can play without changes?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Again, removing Tro will not fix anything for the fights you consider unfair (Tro users vs Tro non-users).

Enf, Keeper, MA, Zset MP are all easier to kill with Tiger instead of Tro.

I have an engi with tro, a crat with tro, and an advy with tro. I've also got access to an account with a doc with tro.

I am pretty sure that all of these toons play very well with tro because I do so because I can.


However, I also have (played) advy prior to going ranged with full melee advy setup, (not underpowered except in mass pvp), endgame keeper, doc without troaler, enf, trader soldier and MA.

I've played every prof at endgame except NT, agent, MP and Shade

Out of all of the toons, the easiest to play ones are the ones with pistols... and, I know this sounds retarded, but they are easiest to play because you can spam damage. This feels easy and it is easy, you can let procs their job and empower you and help you defend yourself or help you kill your target. It's not rocket science.

All the profs with troaler feel the most balanced, and, reasonably so, becuase you're playing against profs with troaler.

On the other hand, all profs except enforcer (that I've played), are usually totally overwhelmed by nearly any prof who sports a troaler. Consistent, hard hitting AS will eat every single prof eventually, with exception of agent, doc and advy.

like I said, it's not rocket science... I use them because I want to be competitive. But I know they are OP'd as hell compared to anything else in game, because I also have toons who don't/can't use it.

[wonderland]

Funny stuff going on here, but MassDebater is right, tiger is stronger than Troa'ler unless you happen to just have both a really, really high aimed shot multiplier and high attack rating to actually perk people. Otherwise, something like a tiger is stronger.

Some professions are just straight up given those stats, with little to no sacrifices though.

and Noobastank, I have no idea what you're talking about (I have a hard time making sense of anything you're saying), but I'm just going to add in that playing a profession doesn't mean you understand anything about it.

On the other hand, all profs except enforcer (that I've played), are usually totally overwhelmed by nearly any prof who sports a troaler.

and this constantly capping aimed shot is coming from what profession? Adventurer? Okay. Not coming from a metaphysicist, trader, or doctor definitely.

[MassDebater]

I have an engi with tro, a crat with tro, and an advy with tro. I've also got access to an account with a doc with tro.

I am pretty sure that all of these toons play very well with tro because I do so because I can.


However, I also have (played) advy prior to going ranged with full melee advy setup, (not underpowered except in mass pvp), endgame keeper, doc without troaler, enf, trader soldier and MA.

I've played every prof at endgame except NT, agent, MP and Shade

Out of all of the toons, the easiest to play ones are the ones with pistols... and, I know this sounds retarded, but they are easiest to play because you can spam damage. This feels easy and it is easy, you can let procs their job and empower you and help you defend yourself or help you kill your target. It's not rocket science.

All the profs with troaler feel the most balanced, and, reasonably so, becuase you're playing against profs with troaler.

On the other hand, all profs except enforcer (that I've played), are usually totally overwhelmed by nearly any prof who sports a troaler. Consistent, hard hitting AS will eat every single prof eventually, with exception of agent, doc and advy.

like I said, it's not rocket science... I use them because I want to be competitive. But I know they are OP'd as hell compared to anything else in game, because I also have toons who don't/can't use it.

Again, Tiger is more dangerous to high hp and evade profs. Minus doc because they can heal each AS like it is nothing.

Your post seemed to claim that profs like Keeper are nerfed due to Tro, when Tiger kills them much easier.

Tro is widespread because it is still semi decent in pvm and it comes with 80% pistol perks for adv, doc, eng, crat, mp.


Remove Tro and people will just go back to alternatives that are between slightly worse, even and better in pvp, but suck in pvm, look ugly, are more expensive and/or possibly other sacrifices.

It is not as simple as "hurr durr Tro OP delete it."

[Insane666]

Put me in the "quitting when rebalance comes" column please.

with as little faith i have that FC wont actually destroy the game i love with the reballance you might aswell put me in the same collumn,,,

id much rather continue playing with perma raging spaghetti monsters, lubchild adventurers with access to coon/acro/heals/whatever then risk it and let fc play with ballance in pvp

[Otansaanpas]

Graphics don't mean squat.

Look at some of the best games in history:

tetris
super mario brothers
Baldur's gate 1/2
final fantasy 1

how is SMB1 better than lets say GTA IV?

[wonderland]

with as little faith i have that FC wont actually destroy the game i love with the reballance you might aswell put me in the same collumn,,,

id much rather continue playing with perma raging spaghetti monsters, lubchild adventurers with access to coon/acro/heals/whatever then risk it and let fc play with ballance in pvp

The only issue I have with the rebalance, is that it looks like, to me, profession concepts and designs are being changed. I could see many people who didn't make adventurers to be constant shapeshifters, or made metaphysicist to be a debuff heavy profession legitimately upset at what they once loved being changed. I'm not talking about, "They couldn't learn it after rebalance because they're stupid," I mean, "They made it because they like x, but x is now y so they no longer find it interesting and fun, regardless of whether they are skilled or not."

Essentially, it does seem the game may get more balanced, but I feel there are ways to balance the game that aren't so radical and stunt-ish.

[Wyoming]

It is not as simple as "hurr durr Tro OP delete it."

If your statement were true, why are there no more shovels? The tro basically overwrote any ranged PvP setup since it meant there was very little sacrifice for a massive gain; who wouldn't want a Doc which can land perks at the same rate as a Soldier AND have Aimed shot?
Tiger Docs/Crats didn't have the perks and the 11 second Aimed Shot, on the most part.

And as for Advies... kiting and unrootability + 11 seconds Aimed Shot = Did someone spike your tea...?

[wonderland]

laff, what? Doctors couldn't get 11s aimed shot on the ofab tiger? Since when? and even just "having 11s aimed shot" doesn't mean you're doing a lot of damage with it. Pistol doctors need piles of aimed shot skill to actually do more than 2000 damage with their aimed shots a lot.

A doctor with a ql250 tiger caps aimed shot on enemies' health like 5-10x more often than a pistol. I absolutely loved it on my doctor.

They [Bow doctors] didn't have the perks, but pistol doctors do not get to perking even adventurers (With pistol perks, and that's not with dof up) without cutting out a lot of their health.

No, it's not anything like a soldier's attack rating and perks.

[Insane666]

The only issue I have with the rebalance, is that it looks like, to me, profession concepts and designs are being changed. I could see many people who didn't make adventurers to be constant shapeshifters, or made metaphysicist to be a debuff heavy profession legitimately upset at what they once loved being changed. I'm not talking about, "They couldn't learn it after rebalance because they're stupid," I mean, "They made it because they like x, but x is now y so they no longer find it interesting and fun, regardless of whether they are skilled or not."

Essentially, it does seem the game may get more balanced, but I feel there are ways to balance the game that aren't so radical and stunt-ish.

thats exactly what i meant, i fell in love with ao being the game it is, im more and more afraid that the supposed reballance will be more of an attempt to reinvent the game, in wich case ill be propably done with ao, since it would end up not the game i fell in love with

[Obtena]

Yessah!

Maintaining a reliable level of players It's not about resubs so your quotes have little to do with what I said. In addition, it's clear you don't understand why graphics is a priority. As I have said before, graphics engine upgrade is one of those fundamentally necessary activities that HAS to happen so the game can continue being developed. It's analogous to upgrading to a more current version of your OS if you want to run software that doesn't support the OS you run now.

I'm still in awe that you manage to push your Tro removal agenda at every opportunity as well. All the arguments are still the same.

[Raggy]

Maintaining a reliable level of players It's not about resubs so your quotes have little to do with what I said. In addition, it's clear you don't understand why graphics is a priority. As I have said before, graphics engine upgrade is one of those fundamentally necessary activities that HAS to happen so the game can continue being developed. It's analogous to upgrading to a more current version of your OS if you want to run software that doesn't support the OS you run now.

I'm still in awe that you manage to push your Tro removal agenda at every opportunity as well. All the arguments are still the same.

But the graphics engine has diddely-squat to do with core gameplay mechanics, which is what the rebalance, and this thread, is about. As for continuing the development of the game, only in terms of graphical assets does the engine age play a key part, and for those to be developed, AO has to have an active development team, which it doesn't.

Ergo, Rebalance -> Engine

[Obtena]

Not really. The thread is about certain people wondering how long we will play without changes. You don't know how many people are not represented by the OP, probably have sub'ed for a long time now and think the way the game is changing is actually great. I'm willing to bet they are probably the majority of the subbing customers at this point as well. AO shares it's development team over all the FC staff. Just because they aren't dedicated to AO doesn't mean it's not happening. If the graphics engine is similar over all the games, then the guy making trees in AoC can make trees in AO as well. That's actually a great thing for AO, just too many veterans with too much vitrol to think that clearly to realize it.

[Raggy]

Not really. The thread is about certain people wondering how long we will play without changes. You don't know how many people are not represented by the OP, probably have sub'ed for a long time now and think the way the game is changing is actually great. I'm willing to bet they are probably the majority of the subbing customers at this point as well. AO shares it's development team over all the FC staff. Just because they aren't dedicated to AO doesn't mean it's not happening. If the graphics engine is similar over all the games, then the guy making trees in AoC can make trees in AO as well. That's actually a great thing for AO, just too many veterans with too much vitrol to think that clearly to realize it.

If the majority of subbing customers were happy with the state of the game, there wouldn't have been a server merge.

And if the guy making trees for AoC is going to be making them in AO aswell, there is going to be a VERY serious issue trying to preserve the art direction of a game set nearly 30000 years in the future on an alien planet.

[Obtena]

If the majority of subbing customers were happy with the state of the game, there wouldn't have been a server merge.

I don't get your statement. Server merge was a result of low population. The merge was serving paying players needs. The population of people that play are clearly more satisfied with the game than the population of people that don't, unless your going to try to tell me that people that play this game are intrinsically stupid enough to pay for it and not play it simultaneously. (Not at this monthly rate they aren't)

The fact that there was a server merge goes directly to what I'm speaking about ... it's obvious that FC's approach to AO is about satisfying paying customers, not getting resubs. That's why it's evident to me that if you play this game primarily for PVP, your always going to be in the group of customers that are last to get attention. The PVP crowd will never be the majority supporter of this game.

And if the guy making trees for AoC is going to be making them in AO aswell, there is going to be a VERY serious issue trying to preserve the art direction of a game set nearly 30000 years in the future on an alien planet.

Really? You are talking about the art direction? Who cares. Seriously ... Who. Even the most hardcore RP guy doesn't scrutinize the landscape to that level ... if they did they would have quit 7 years ago. Ridiculous. As long as rocks and trees look like rocks and trees, that's enough. Honestly, you wouldn't even notice it and if you did, no one would think anything of it. Frankly, they SHOULD try to reuse skins. It would get done faster and be easier to do.

[Raggy]

I don't get your statement. Server merge was a result of low population. The merge was serving their needs. The population of people that play are clearly more satisfied with the game than the population of people that don't, unless your going to try to tell me that people that play this game are intrinsically stupid enough to pay for it and hating it at the same time.

The fact that there was a server merge goes directly to what I'm speaking about ... it's obvious that FC's approach to AO is about satisfying paying customers, not getting resubs and for me. That's why it's evident that if you play this game primarily for PVP, your always going to be in the group of customers that are last to get attention.

What's not to get? People stopped playing because the game became stale/nothing changed. It would be ridiculous to suggest they all quit due to RL issues.

Oh yeah, that's a REAL serious issue ... maintaining the difference between grass and trees and rocks between two different games. Honestly, you wouldn't even notice it and if you did, no one would think anything of it. Frankly, they SHOULD try to reuse skins. It would get done faster and be easier to do.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that immersion plays no part in an MMO? If anything the style and art direction of graphical assets will become an even bigger factor once the new engine comes in.

[Obtena]

What's not to get? People stopped playing because the game became stale/nothing changed.

Yeah and those that stayed behind are the customers that are the ones FC are most likely to satisfy with the changes they are going to make just simply based on the fact those people are still ingame paying and playing. Again, I'm not talking about some kind of strategy to get people resubbing. That's a short sighted approach for a game at this state. The near term goal of graphics engine is a necessary growing pain.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that immersion plays no part in an MMO?

Dunno ... are you trying to tell me that you can identify the authenticity of a tree on an alien planet 30000 into the future and claim that it can't be anything like a tree in AoC and therefore it ruins your immersion experience? I would love to see that conversation in game suggestions. Bottomline, if my rocks looks like rocks, I'm immersed. I doubt you will find many arborists or geologists waxing philosophically about how immersed they feel playing AO because of the authenticity of the landscape, but hey, what do I know. I'm probably going to quit when my rocks don't end up with the right amount of quartz in them or when my tree leaves don't change colour in the fall.

[Raggy]

Yeah and those that stayed behind are the customers that are the ones FC are most likely to satisfy with the changes they are going to make. Again, I'm not talking about some kind of strategy to get people resubbing. That's a short sighted approach for a game at this state. The near term goal of graphics engine is a necessary growing pain.

FC has been saying they are doing XYZ for the past 5 years. Nothing has happened, people have left, they are doing nothing to keep current subs, why are you having a hard time understanding this?

Dunno ... are you trying to tell me that you can identify the authenticity of a tree on an alien planet 30000 into the future and claim that it can't be anything like a tree in AoC? I would love to see that conversation in game suggestions.

Do you understand the term 'Art Direction'?

[Obtena]

FC has been saying they are doing XYZ for the past 5 years. Nothing has happened, people have left, they are doing nothing to keep current subs, why are you having a hard time understanding this?

Yes clearly advancing the graphics engine, server merge and other stuff is 'nothing'. I forgot. The time tested mantra of vitrolic forum trolls. When at a loss for words, just say FC is doing nothing, not listening, etc..

Do you understand the term 'Art Direction'?

I do in a game that's in the state AO is. Do tell, who is the current art director in AO?

[Raggy]

Yes clearly advancing the graphics engine and other stuff is 'nothing'. I forgot. The time tested mantra of vitrolic forum trolls.

Clearly? It wasn't even clear they were even developing the engine until recently. There is nothing clear about how FC has handled the repeated promises of changes and development to the game, people got fed up of waiting, people are getting fed up of waiting yet again.

I do in a game that's in the state AO is. Do tell, who is the current art director in AO?

Mstrbstrd.

[Obtena]

Clearly? It wasn't even clear they were even developing the engine until recently.

There is something to be said for paying attention I guess.

Mstrbstrd

We should ask him what his plans are to ensure the composition of the rocks and trees in AO stay true to their original intent now that AO shares resources with other games, just to ensure our immersion is complete.