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Thread: Soldier vs Enforcer setup discussion (off topic from Soldier forum)

  1. #41
    I could ccl about an evade soldier because unlike an enforcer they won't ever be able to stun lock me while dropping one of the of the biggest alpha's in the game that is extremely hard to avoid or get away from and if I do manage to survive the enforcer is near unkillable if he decides to run.

    A soldier is rootable and much more easily debuffable, their alpha utilizes specials that check against evades with much less perk damage, they have like one stun (that is much harder to land), have less healing, they don't run at capped run speed (even through CC), nor do they have a fear that serves targets up on a silver platter. See the difference bro?

  2. #42
    I would 100% agree with you gates that if soldier had a working defensive toolset that wasn't "on" or "off", and without enormous gaping holes in their general stats like some of the lowest NR and run speed in the game allowing many professions to avoid them until the soldiers defenses are "off", that they wouldn't need to be able to reach such high amounts of defense.

    However until some very drastic changes are made to he many obvious flaws with a soldiers kit (there are Tons of issues) then I don't support removing anything from their kit. And in terms of comparing enforcers to soldiers I have to say that I feel that enforcers have so much more going for them defensively than just potential static def ratings that even though they are both the "tank" classes - enforcers are worlds ahead in both offensive and defensive strength in pvp that it feels silly to compare them at all.
    Leave "Marinegent" AScar - 220/23/65 Atrox Agent
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    I could ccl about an evade soldier because unlike an enforcer they won't ever be able to stun lock me while dropping one of the of the biggest alpha's in the game that is extremely hard to avoid or get away from and if I do manage to survive the enforcer is near unkillable if he decides to run.

    A soldier is rootable and much more easily debuffable, their alpha utilizes specials that check against evades with much less perk damage, they have like one stun (that is much harder to land), have less healing, they don't run at capped run speed (even through CC), nor do they have a fear that serves targets up on a silver platter. See the difference bro?
    My problem is less about the self-buffed soldier dueling other players and more the fully OSB'd soldier at a tower war being unperkable. Conceptually I have a problem with soldiers having high evades, and I have used an evade setup before with surprising results in TL5 PVP and PVE. We could argue who has the better alpha or contributes the most relevant damage, but that is an endless debate between a 60 second to over 2 minute recharging alpha and a constant spam of either AS or FA.

    The amount of evades soldiers and enfs are both getting are also indicating a fundemental issue with AO itself, that too much gear simply adds defense. While in most cases the evades a soldier and enforcer can reach are a non-issue, there are times when those evades are far too effective. Removing the evades from enfs and soldiers will not hurt them as a profession, but doing so should not be done until their toolsets are balanced properly anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    I would 100% agree with you gates that if soldier had a working defensive toolset that wasn't "on" or "off", and without enormous gaping holes in their general stats like some of the lowest NR and run speed in the game allowing many professions to avoid them until the soldiers defenses are "off", that they wouldn't need to be able to reach such high amounts of defense.

    However until some very drastic changes are made to he many obvious flaws with a soldiers kit (there are Tons of issues) then I don't support removing anything from their kit. And in terms of comparing enforcers to soldiers I have to say that I feel that enforcers have so much more going for them defensively than just potential static def ratings that even though they are both the "tank" classes - enforcers are worlds ahead in both offensive and defensive strength in pvp that it feels silly to compare them at all.
    Completely agree, although soldiers tend to do well compared to enfs at tower wars, that's about it. Borealis, duels, tara, and BS an enforcer is superior to a soldier in all these aspects. Nerfing rage would solve this but I don't see that happening sadly.


    I wouldn't mind discussing some interesting ways to solve the "on" and "off" style of soldier defense. I always thought something more active or something that required players to put effort into weakening a soldiers defense would be better.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    A reflect nano that's able to be completely voided by an engineer, trader, or nanotechnician just walking up to them. Otherwise, it lasts 80s.
    Wonder how long it has been since you fought a Trader.
    Neophyte Nerf"Shareida"Batted First Order
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    it's written in the bible.
    Matthew 23:13 "and the trader hath casteth bulk trader at the young age of 14. and it was good. and so he hath an extra 260 comp lit and he hath equippeth better ncu's. and it was good too.
    A Producer's point of view

  5. #45
    This has been one of the better threads I have read in a long while. It made me rethink my NM Sol. I actually had never maxed my evades and left them about 1/2 way maxed. I had just assumed I was not supposed to evade anything anyway being a sol and relied on max DD/max AMS/max Reflects/NM coon with best skill lock modifiers I could get.

    With a few skill resets I should be able to reach very close to those numbers you posted and still keep my original theme together. AMS5 I can handle with comp infuse possibly mastery with little effort.
    Last edited by Psikie; Apr 3rd, 2013 at 22:26:32.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    This has been one of the better threads I have read in a long while. It made me rethink my NM Sol. I actually had never maxed my evades and left them about 1/2 way maxed. I had just assumed I was not supposed to evade anything anyway being a sol and relied on max DD/max AMS/max Reflects/NM coon with best skill lock modifiers I could get.
    even maxing evades and wearing css helps evade things on sold in pvm. mine wears a few pieces of css and with evades maxed collector misses hits reliably with crat aura up. makes tanking with ams down quite a bit easier on the doc.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Shareida View Post
    Wonder how long it has been since you fought a Trader.
    Hi, I play a 220 trader. Sadly enough, besides your never-ending whining about traders, traders are not the nerfest. Or even close.

    PS,

    Uniiden: How much AR do you have pre chal?
    Xterminatore: 3026
    Uniiden: 2975
    Uniiden: 3148 def
    Uniiden: w/o highway

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Challenger to Behemoth
    Wearer Modify AddAllOffense 301
    Last edited by wonderland; Apr 4th, 2013 at 05:06:20.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    even maxing evades and wearing css helps evade things on sold in pvm. mine wears a few pieces of css and with evades maxed collector misses hits reliably with crat aura up. makes tanking with ams down quite a bit easier on the doc.
    Tanking things like Informant or Pande it's a major help too. I've done raids without a crat or doc because I was stacking over 3k static def, which may seem like a good thing but honestly it's not. Of course, we know of at least one player who would like to disagree that an enforcer or soldier can evade mob damage but hopefully the majority of the playerbase realizes differently

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    Uniiden: How much AR do you have pre chal?
    Xterminatore: 3026
    Uniiden: 2975
    Uniiden: 3148 def
    Uniiden: w/o highway
    We have clearly posted the highest possible self-buffed defensive setups and given the stats they reach. Your trolling and random chat excerpts are pointless.

    If I wanted to include towers, contracts, raid buffs, PVE buffs, and OSB's then I would have done so. Do not try to be evasive with these posts of yours to avoid the fact that you cannot show us an enforcer with 3200 AR and 3000 def.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post

    If I wanted to include towers, contracts, raid buffs, PVE buffs, and OSB's then I would have done so. Do not try to be evasive with these posts of yours to avoid the fact that you cannot show us an enforcer with 3200 AR and 3000 def.
    Why wouldn't you include raid buffs in your final AR/ evades calcs?

    not to be pedantic, but, everyone in game at 220 is easily capable of getting raidbuffs.

    Personally, I farm raidbuffs. I honestly don't think theres a reason to not be playing with them.

    * it helps others get their equip
    * it increases your off/def/damage
    * it means you can immerse yourself (at least a little bit) with dudes from RK1/2 (I don't know that many from the other server yet, so it's still a learning process for me to learn who everyone is.

    Not everyone is capable of getting a 275 presence tower - so I agree this is a good exclusion.

    Obviously not including other profs buffs is appropriate for assessing "self" stats.

  10. #50
    To [Uniiden]: Well, you've been quoted on forums about having some particular selfed stats
    To [Uniiden]: I've just wanted to confirm your actual stats from you and not from others posting chat
    [Uniiden]: No idea what you're talking about
    To [Uniiden]: I can pull it up one second
    To [Uniiden]: Uniiden: How much AR do you have pre chal? Xterminatore: 3026 Uniiden: 2975 Uniiden: 3148 def Uniiden: w/o highway
    [Uniiden]: Right
    [Uniiden]: That was like 4 days ago
    To [Uniiden]: did you have any towers, contracts, raid buffs, or OSBs?
    [Uniiden]: towers
    [Uniiden]: no raid buffs
    [Uniiden]: and osbs/contracts not that I knew of
    [Uniiden]: didnt look for them, im selfed 90% of the time
    To [Uniiden]: which towers?
    To [Uniiden]: guessing AAD, evade, AAO, and weapon skill most likely?
    [Uniiden]: learning presence
    [Uniiden]: my AR is ****
    [Uniiden]: my AR is like 2.9k
    [Uniiden]: pre chal
    [Uniiden]: even with chal and procs I only just break 3.4k
    To [Uniiden]: what's your def right now?
    To [Uniiden]: even just taking away the AAD tower I cant see you having over 3000 def
    [Uniiden]: 2876
    ----------------------------------------
    To [Uniiden]: but I hate someone saying "enfs have 3200 NR, 3200 AR, and 3000 def with nothing running"
    To [Uniiden]: and then quoting you to justify the statement
    [Uniiden]: oh nah, I have 2900ish AR w/o HHAB I have 2.7k NR and as I stand right now a little under 3k dodge def
    ----------------------------------------
    [Uniiden]: 2985 AR right now w/o chal
    ----------------------------------------
    [Uniiden]: Im at 2876 dodge def just sitting here with the bear min
    To [Uniiden]: you probably have mother wolf running though
    [Uniiden]: good call, 2776
    To [Uniiden]: yep, that's the def value I thought you should have but a bit over 2750



    After we took away the OSB's and towers I'm seeing about 3200 AR, 2700 NR, and 2750ish def rating...anyone mind confirming that since I may not be a very good source for enforcer stats? I have a feeling someone is going to have to change their signature
    Last edited by Gatester; Apr 7th, 2013 at 07:39:43.

  11. #51
    Let's discuss the topic at hand, and not hurl insults at one another.
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  12. #52
    In duel scenerios soldiers are okay - things get worse in any other pvp scenerio where your target can freely move and use all tricks: we lack RunSpeed, we do have one of worse NanoResistance and our only defence is AMS - which most players tend to avoid by running from us. As far as I can jump somone in BS/Gankfest its okay, but when it comes to me vs 2 one who can run will do that.

    In fact - only those enforcers will die to my soldier which chose to not run, because if they want to survive, they got plenty of toolset to trick me: Fear, BC, Runspeed, Stuns.

    About that post above with stats: He is probably calculating AAD+Dodge Ranged ect. because there is no way he can get near 3k static AAD skill. And AAD is not o****ed as static skill which add certain ammount to current evasion skills.
    Last edited by Pomidor; Apr 11th, 2013 at 09:06:22.
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