FFoK Self Only? Give us a Break!

[Jynne]

Cz, please make sure the designers realize that making Four Fists of Kali self only is good for one thing and one thing only: making offensively weak professions with few or no good weaponry options even weaker.

Doctors - whose incredibly weak offense was already hurting badly from the removal of LLTSes and the crit buffing nerf - currently have only three choices for doing decent damage without expending crippling amounts of IP on multiple dark blue specials. There is the X-3, there is the Home Defender, and there is Martial Arts. Because of the damage-per-hit differential between those guns and punching, and the range advantage, the main attraction of taking the MA route was the ability to get a significantly higher attack rating and the speed. Making FFoK self-only dramatically reduces the attack rating benefit and will essentially force many Doctors to IPR and use shotguns or rifles.

Engineers lose even more. Is this an intentional plan to make engineers quit so you don't have to fix pet pathing or the attack rating, aggro-holding, and trimmer problems with robots? Now Engineers can either use a Home Defender, or a V3 to do some decent damage. The robot, you say? The robot's on the other side of the mission area, humping a table leg; but even if it was right with the team, it misses too much, attacks too slowly, and doesn't really do that much damage when it hits anyway.

All other non-MAs who use martial arts as their weapon are affected even more, since Doctors have a 4/level MA skill and Engineers have transference. Luckily most of those professions have other ways of causing damage that work, unlike the Doctor or the Engineer.

Do the designers want everyone to be playing MAs? Do you want to make non-MA characters using the MA skill IPR? One of the major attractions of going MA as a non-MA is the availability of good buffs for it. It makes a mediocre weapons skill for people who don't have a high crit chance into a very useable one.

On behalf of everyone with dark blue weapons skills: Please stop taking our useable options away from us!

[Turin]

Why did you bother to post this? They dont care about you, or tyhe players. They have there vision of how things should be and thats how its going to be. end of story. I am EXTREMELY shocked they decided to listen to us on the LLTS nerf. But, since they let us win that one, dont expect to win another for a couple years. Bottom line. They want All of our offensivew abilities lowered. They do not WANT docs to have as good of combat as they do now. The3y WANT you to hit like a girl in the pom pom squad. Why do you think all the armour looked like dress's originally?

Face it, asking funcom NOT to nerf things is pointless. We can state our opinions and whatnot, but to no effect usually.

[Jynne]

True enough. You know, if they made LLTSes start dropping again I wouldn't even mind this so much.

Still... self-only is bad. Making the new adventurer, fixer, enforcer, and soldier buffs self-only was bad too. Good that they got the buffs, bad that the buffs are self-only. It increases what a profession brings to a team if they can buff the other people they are with.

But FC continues to hand us poorly implemented code, with many negative 'nerfs' going unannounced and unexplained, all based on an amorphous and unclear design philosophy that often seems to contradict itself.

Cz is in an unenviable position... but it's the devs who can't seem to get their act together that put him there.

[_____________Rebbeca]

I really hate how all the new weapon skill buffs are all self only. Adv/fixer/soldier/MA/enf need some help with nanoskills and they ask a MP for buffs. The MP needs some help with his weapon skills but he's outta luck cause they are self only.


As a crat I play a character that is totally reliant on outside buffs so this trend is unsettling. The only buffs we have are +20pistol, +86 conceal, +50 psychology, and useless 30inits/50 ncu buff. So if I want to get any equipment on I need help from others. But buffs are going the way of being self only. What's next doc +80 treat self only?

[Blackwing]

i rather think more communication would help.

they obviously have a vision and are moving the game into that direction.

however not knowing wtf that vision is like and what options existing characters have to adapt to this is not a very smart plan imo.

the concept art of shadowlands shows a cool looking doctor armor and pistol. can doctors except a working pistol weapon?

it looks as if you want people to go with the weapons cheapest for their class - fine. but what weapons will you give them to survive doing that?

it looks as if you want people to have insane nanoskills after shadowlands - fine. but how to accomplish that? is it available for everyone? what prerequisites do i need to qualify? what boosters i need to buy?

it looks as if you want to change the game from fast crit reliant to steady damage - fine. but what about people who choose fast weapons because they LIKE to use them? will you adjust the database and add new toys for enforcers (mostly since dual wielding enforcers seem to be hit bad by the scope nerf apart from the aforementioned ma users).


if you tell us your master plan we will have a much easier transition time - cut us some slack and give us some credit we might embrace the change if we know what is coming in the future you know?

[Jynne]

Originally posted by Blackwing
i rather think more communication would help.

they obviously have a vision and are moving the game into that direction.

however not knowing wtf that vision is like and what options existing characters have to adapt to this is not a very smart plan imo.

the concept art of shadowlands shows a cool looking doctor armor and pistol. can doctors except a working pistol weapon?

it looks as if you want people to go with the weapons cheapest for their class - fine. but what weapons will you give them to survive doing that?

it looks as if you want people to have insane nanoskills after shadowlands - fine. but how to accomplish that? is it available for everyone? what prerequisites do i need to qualify? what boosters i need to buy?

it looks as if you want to change the game from fast crit reliant to steady damage - fine. but what about people who choose fast weapons because they LIKE to use them? will you adjust the database and add new toys for enforcers (mostly since dual wielding enforcers seem to be hit bad by the scope nerf apart from the aforementioned ma users).


if you tell us your master plan we will have a much easier transition time - cut us some slack and give us some credit we might embrace the change if we know what is coming in the future you know?

MA is a 'normal blue' 4/level skill for doctors, just as cheap as pistol.

[speardancer2]

I agree, !!!!

Funcom, give us a glimpse of "the vision"..

I have an advent sitting idle, because I have no idea what to do with her...

let us know what direction the game is going, some people who are specializing for certain weapons or types of attacks, are constantly being slapped upside the head, as their whole strategy becomes useless, because of changes they weren't warned about.

[Blackwing]

Originally posted by Jynne
MA is a 'normal blue' 4/level skill for doctors, just as cheap as pistol.

hmm crap has been some time since i checked the docs ip cost.

i went pistol because i wanted the buff guns to equip armor and maybe use a better heal sooner and was ecstatic that this choice was made viable with the addition of the electronicum.
(*but i toyed with the ma idea for a long long time before the ipr)*

as for my fun doc, well he is a trox with a beam so ....

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Jynne
Engineers lose even more.

Engineers have the best MA buff (+300). Even when/if FFoK is self only, Engineers will still be able to obtain higher MA skills than Martial Artists.

edit: fixed typo

[____________Travesty]

The shift toward self only buffs is terrible. We are supposed to be able truly support each other. Yes, even make our sister classes better at certain things than we are at times. If they dont like that, then adjust the numbers. Dont turn this into "my best buffs are for me only".

The real funny thing is, I always feel in teaming with strangers that you are wanted more based on what buffs you can give the team rather than what you can contribute as far as damage.

[Jynne]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate


Engineers have the best MA buff (+300). Even when/if FFoK is self only, Engineers will still be able to obtain higher MA skills than Martial Artists.

edit: fixed typo

Yes, and we aaaaall know engineers are sooooo much more powerful than MAs. Just look at how many people are quitting their MAs to make Engineers!

*snicker* If Engineers had crit buffs, green evades, evade buffs, and heals maybe you'd have a little credibility there. But you don't, and you get absolutely no sympathy from me. FC continues to make it so that choosing Martial Artist as a profession is playing on 'easy mode' and keeps ratcheting up the problems for everyone else.

[__________Beautyfarm]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate


Engineers have the best MA buff (+300). Even when/if FFoK is self only, Engineers will still be able to obtain higher MA skills than Martial Artists.

you of course dont wanna say that engineers are the better mas, or even close to comparable

( just pointing it out for slow thinking people )

[cold]

*shrug*
Guess we'll see engineers with X-3 rifles after 14.6 then. 14.8 will give us X-3 enforcers

[Blackwing]

Originally posted by Shard
The shift toward self only buffs is terrible. We are supposed to be able truly support each other. Yes, even make our sister classes better at certain things than we are at times. If they dont like that, then adjust the numbers. Dont turn this into "my best buffs are for me only".

The real funny thing is, I always feel in teaming with strangers that you are wanted more based on what buffs you can give the team rather than what you can contribute as far as damage.

since if you do pickup teams you are practically whoring yourself out, strapping into some skimpy dresses and putting on the rouge to then fight for the precious slots remaining i always took the buffs into the equation.

by removing them and basing professions only on damage and healing more then half of rk gets shafted.

all pet professions lose - your pet is not there, your damage without pet sucks so bye.

everybody using a fast crit reliant weapon goes bye bye. so i might have to make my dual wielding trox forcer into just what the team needs another beam enforcer yay!

non 1he adventurers or bow mas go bye bye unless no other healer shows up.
.....
really not a good idea.

when i make a group i grab the first 6 people who reply or are lfg and in the appropriate level range and work from there and it usually works.

however the number of players unwilling to do that increases daily and by making it so that you have to judge the team members based upon what they alone bring to your team and no longer by the sum of all the parts it is only made worse.

[Cemetarygate]

Jynne, the point of my post was to state that Engineers will not lose the most. Which I thought I did. I'll rephrase. The ones that will lose the most are those that don't have martial arts buffs of their own to make up for the loss of FFoK.

[Jynne]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
Jynne, the point of my post was to state that Engineers will not lose the most. Which I thought I did. I'll rephrase. The ones that will lose the most are those that don't have martial arts buffs of their own to make up for the loss of FFoK.

Okay... I probably overreacted a little, but it kind of burns me to see anyone implying that Engineers, of all professions, should be nerfed.

I take 'nerf cries' for my own profession, Doctor, more easily than for Engineers.

[____________Intrepid]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate


Engineers have the best MA buff (+300). Even when/if FFoK is self only, Engineers will still be able to obtain higher MA skills than Martial Artists.

edit: fixed typo

But does this higher attack rating then MAs equate to more damage then MAs?? LOL not even close.

Originally posted by Jynne
Yes, and we aaaaall know engineers are sooooo much more powerful than MAs. Just look at how many people are quitting their MAs to make Engineers!

*snicker* If Engineers had crit buffs, green evades, evade buffs, and heals maybe you'd have a little credibility there. But you don't, and you get absolutely no sympathy from me. FC continues to make it so that choosing Martial Artist as a profession is playing on 'easy mode' and keeps ratcheting up the problems for everyone else.

exactly

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by tallistro
you of course dont wanna say that engineers are the better mas, or even close to comparable

( just pointing it out for slow thinking people )

Lol. Ok, I'll say it. Engineers are the better MAs.

[Bionitrous]

Damnit, I forgot to put in my entire point in that rant.

The point about the Doctor Tank Armor and Pistol shown in the Shadowlands concept art is as follows:

They put 'Professon=Doctor' on the requirements for both those items. They then can put whatever skill requirements on them and it just doesn't matter. If you don't have a Pistol buff, it just doesn't matter now that they've abandoned the Skill system.

All they have to do is look at a Doctor at the level they want you to use those items and bingo, there's your requirements.

So, even if they wanted to make a 'Doctor-only' Bow (or pick your deepest darkest blue skill), for example, it wouldn't matter if you had to spend a million points per point in Bow, it wouldn't matter because they could just put ridiculously low requirements on it and have it check at 50% of Dodge Ranged, effectively doubling your Attack Rating.

The skill system is dead. This game is now dictated by how the developers tell you to play your 'class'.

Whether or not that's a good thing is not for me to say. I simply despise it, however.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Intrepid
But does this higher attack rating then MAs equate to more damage then MAs?? LOL not even close.

Yes, it does actually. The Engy will do more damge with their 1,300 attack rating compared to the MA's 1,100 attack rating. (Approx. numbers based on level 200 solitus chars fully implanted, buffed and such. Those numbers are by no means exact.) In other words, if each took a shot at a mob the Engy does have the potential to out damage the MA.

However, long term damage is in favor of the MA, due to the crit factor.