Credit Black Holes

[drainbamage]

Creating substantial credit sinks (which I would say the GMI and new city rents are) is going to deplete credits

Pretty sure that's the point, and also why new credit faucets haven't been added yet.

[Dafie]

Monthly city rent
(org with many ppl, they gonna merge server why don't you merge with another org ?)
Full perk reset service guy
(wait 48h... once you could not full perk reset like that and we were still manage to twink)
NPC vendors and shops
(time to sell ur shop food, could be fine to increase the value of some shop food (not pearls ofc)
GMI fees and tax
(use shoping channel instead maybe? lower price on ur item)

travel to ely? hey u jokin? do your garden quest key

[zoneik]

Monthly city rent
(org with many ppl, they gonna merge server why don't you merge with another org ?)
Full perk reset service guy
(wait 48h... once you could not full perk reset like that and we were still manage to twink)
NPC vendors and shops
(time to sell ur shop food, could be fine to increase the value of some shop food (not pearls ofc)
GMI fees and tax
(use shoping channel instead maybe? lower price on ur item)

travel to ely? hey u jokin? do your garden quest key

Some org don't wanna merge

Once again u can get around this buy not buying perks resets and waiting 48h (but its still a credit sink if you do)

For the price of some shop food its pointless and inpractical

you can spam shopping forever waiting for items to sell, what about the rest of the game play you intended to do should you put that on hold?????

another quick money sink the new(ish) HP/Nano recharge packs wtf is with the prices on them ???????? lets say a lvl 1 toons is created by a new player there save up a few 100K after deducting price of nano's implants and weps (unless MA MP Doc Crat Engi NT that do fine without weps) that leaves this person who has spent alot of time farming shopfood pritty skint then there expected to pay out huge sums of money for med packs

you guys need to stop thinking about how credit sinks effect you but start thinking about the less experiance or less fortunet, with the price of things these days its no wonder new players are put off

[Cratertina]

Well, credit sinks are much needed. Despite everything CSS is again reaching S10 era pricess. People are loaded, just sell them anything. Removing credits from highlevel content will help newbies a lot.

Credits galore! Devs are doing a decent job now.

[Unkfix]

people that farmed s10 made peasant cash compared to the real sources of income in this game.

People that farmed s10 MADE cash compared to other sources of income which simply trade items for cash MADE by others who farmed things like s10.

When you farm alb/db2/db3/pande you're not putting new credits into the game, you're just trading around credits that have been in the game for years. If there are more credit sinks than there are ways to generate new credits, as time goes on you'll find yourself unable to sell those items to other players for the same high prices because noone will have enough credits to buy them from you.

[Unkfix]

you can spam shopping forever waiting for items to sell, what about the rest of the game play you intended to do should you put that on hold?????

Should suggest in game suggestion forums for a global shopping channel with high level restrictions (think 150+) to avoid having it used by spammers.

[Psikie]

When you farm alb/db2/db3/pande you're not putting new credits into the game, you're just trading around credits that have been in the game for years. If there are more credit sinks than there are ways to generate new credits, as time goes on you'll find yourself unable to sell those items to other players for the same high prices because noone will have enough credits to buy them from you.

Correct, economics 101.

I wonder if AO will be around the day that pande loot rights on BOC or alba EAD/bracer are selling for less than 5m.

[Utopian]

Correct, economics 101.

I wonder if AO will be around the day that pande loot rights on BOC or alba EAD/bracer are selling for less than 5m.

The question should be...

Will there ever be a time where loot-selling is not needed at all.

[Psikie]

The question should be...

Will there ever be a time where loot-selling is not needed at all.

Unlikely. There will always be haves and have nots. Doers and talkers. Teachers and learners.

[Utopian]

Unlikely. There will always be haves and have nots. Doers and talkers. Teachers and learners.

Well, true - but the problem now is that loot-selling (farming instances to sell nodrops) has become a play style. I find it odd, really. I love to farm all my own gear - will barter for things that I cannot seem to get lucky for, etc - this gives me a sense of accomplishment with doing the work. I do sell the odds and ends that I find and don't need or will give to orgmates if they ask (they know I am a pack rat).

But lootright selling limits the ability of the person who wants to work for their gear/items because of the lack of population. It has gotten so bad, that I resist the urge to level another toon to 220.

[Psikie]

Well, true - but the problem now is that loot-selling (farming instances to sell nodrops) has become a play style. I find it odd, really. I love to farm all my own gear - will barter for things that I cannot seem to get lucky for, etc - this gives me a sense of accomplishment with doing the work. I do sell the odds and ends that I find and don't need or will give to orgmates if they ask (they know I am a pack rat).

100% I agree. I think I have purchased loot rights maybe 4x ever. It was always for some dreadloch item that I could never get to drop. I've never paid for pande/apf/LOX loot on any of my 220's though.

[Ciex]

Well, true - but the problem now is that loot-selling (farming instances to sell nodrops) has become a play style. I find it odd, really. I love to farm all my own gear

I see nothing odd here, youll earn money for LR faster than you collect points on point bots and unless you are not doc/enf/crat/sold there you cant count on having teams every thime you feel like doing some pvm. Farming your owbn stuff was fun on a first 220, way less fun on second and totally annoying on next ones, at last for me.

[Glarawyn]

or at least rework the nodrop mechanism into a "nodrop on equip" system where such items become actually nodrop only when they are equipped the first time

It's already been implemented in AO, but it's an open a box or finish the tradeskill type process. Open box, box destroyed, NODROP item spawned in inventory, or add one more piece to the item that changes it from the unfinished item to the NODROP item.

If you wanted a credit black hole, implement something along the lines of creating the Bureaucrat Suit (Bureaucrat Suit guide): Hologram Camera + ID Extractor to generate ID Data, and apply the ID Data to item to personalize it.

Perhaps simplify the whole operation by adding a store that sells one time use ID-Data items at various set quality levels (25 level gaps?). Make it nice and automated instead of using the Hologram Camera and ID Extractor.

So a low quality ID Data chip is cheap and works with low quality items, but a high quality ID Data chip would be needed for high level items, and of course they get very expensive.

[Utopian]

I see nothing odd here, youll earn money for LR faster than you collect points on point bots and unless you are not doc/enf/crat/sold there you cant count on having teams every thime you feel like doing some pvm. Farming your owbn stuff was fun on a first 220, way less fun on second and totally annoying on next ones, at last for me.

To each his own as they say. I am not trying to "earn money", I have a job to earn money. I want to quest for items - ya know, play my character to build his inventory and enjoy the game.

But its funny that you mention points bots...as those should be removed, killed, destroyed, burned, or whatever term you want to use, because it is a source of many issues in this game. Again, my opinion and I know its not shared by all...

[Aiken]

Why all the hate for the raidbots? I've never really understood that at all. From my pov, it's the community uniting collectively to benefit the many.

If you don't want to be part of that particular community, nobody is forcing you to join. Over the many years that i've been active with a raidbot on RK1, i've seen SO MANY people that will join a raid even tho they don't actually need *anything* from said raid, except some points to use on other items in other raids, or just for the social aspect of the raid.

I can hardly count the times that kind of person has logged in a tank, or a doc, or some other prof that's needed by *everyone* even tho they need nothing more than perhaps some points for an item in another raid, or just to stand up and help others in that community.

Mutual Benefits.

It's an attitude thing I guess...

[Psikie]

Why all the hate for the raidbots? I've never really understood that at all. From my pov, it's the community uniting collectively to benefit the many.

If you don't want to be part of that particular community, nobody is forcing you to join. Over the many years that i've been active with a raidbot on RK1, i've seen SO MANY people that will join a raid even tho they don't actually need *anything* from said raid, except some points to use on other items in other raids, or just for the social aspect of the raid.

I can hardly count the times that kind of person has logged in a tank, or a doc, or some other prof that's needed by *everyone* even tho they need nothing more than perhaps some points for an item in another raid, or just to stand up and help others in that community.

Mutual Benefits.

It's an attitude thing I guess...

+1 Agree totally.

The only time I didn't like raid bots was when I wasn't part of any of them lol.

[Utopian]

+1 Agree totally.

The only time I didn't like raid bots was when I wasn't part of any of them lol.

Well, there are those of us that dont care for them - not because I am not part of them (I am, kinda have to be for s42/Tara) but that we would prefer a system that doesn't rely on prior raids to gain advantage for loot in future raids.

It really is that simple. And, for all those that say "dont join then" - well, with the population at such low levels for content (s42 is my example) it is near impossible to have the points raids and open raids happen in the times I have - it splits the available folks into two groups. If s42 and Tara were instanced, it would allow both playstyles to coexist. I think all of the other areas are already.

And, its not an "attitude" with the negative implication given - its just I prefer the open idea of lets get a group and raid - split loot - have a beer, and ya know what - lets do it again tomorrow.

I understand the folks who like the points and the reasons; I just can't figure out why folks don't understand our pov. Oh well, as I said..to each his own.

[Esssch]

They can understand your point of view, and that works great for groups of friends, but for 12 or more strangers it falls apart. DKP (which seems modeled on the points system) is a fair loot system used in thousands of guilds across many games. Rewarding people for showing up more than once is how it should be for larger groups, otherwise you lose attendance rapidly.

[Psikie]

They can understand your point of view, and that works great for groups of friends, but for 12 or more strangers it falls apart. DKP (which seems modeled on the points system) is a fair loot system used in thousands of guilds across many games. Rewarding people for showing up more than once is how it should be for larger groups, otherwise you lose attendance rapidly.

Point bots also reward people that show up with nothing to gain...good example is Enf/doc that are already end game or have the loot from the instance/raid already.

How else do you get those players to come if the point system that rewards continually for participation? Who is going to tank or doc anything for a group of strangers with no real or perceived future reward? If that is you be sure to make yourself available to be called upon to drop what ever you are doing and tank/doc raids for any and everyone at a moments notice.

[Cratertina]

I wish there was an option... A tiny Leet in borealis, where one could buy WU for 200mil, BOC for 750mil, some pande zod items for 100-150mil, inteli symbs at 100mil a piece, xan symbs for 100mil a shot, Arid questline for 400mil, Neretva for 400mil. 500mil for supple, 150mil for observant and strong, 75mil for arithmetic and enduring and finaly... 10k for spiritual.

That would be an excellent credit sink. Offcorse then everyone would want S10 back to get some money to use it in the first place. This would basicly "cap" the market and every time prices would go overboard the excess money would get booted out of the game. This is all that needs to happen and then credits would go under control very fast.

Alternative is a man sitting in funcom office and fullfilling resonable buyorders every day, and thus draining credits out, there has to be something so people who claim to have 35 billion credits have something to spend them on.

When newbie 220 tries to buy a set of 300 CSS it takes litterary a year to do so. In today's gameworld it's kinda inconcievable, to have people wait for 1 year to be viable at endgame pvp. Or any level pvp for that matter. Making a lvl 93 twink takes about a billion, wich takes forever to farm on said 93.

Current system only makes veterans richer and newbies poor..., how do you know you're a veteran? You have 2-5 bil sitting around doing jack nothing... we then complain why out of 100 220's online we can't get 8 to start 220 BS round. And cycle finishes off there unhappy veterans unhappy newbies. It's time we start to chunk out epic credits out of the system, becouse inflation is slowly creeping in again.