Last time I offtanked the Rhand like a boss and saved the day!Originally Posted by Djiax
This is not CHing!
This is still a terrible idea and you should come back to the game so we can try it out.
You gained 96 PVP Solo Score.
Angelyna: (03:55) Srompu forces your NCU to run Feet of Stone...
[Theater of Tragedy] Johnnykay: he's a 220 crat and srompu is probably wearing tl5 symbs
[Theater of Tragedy] Johnnykay: he deserved to die
one toon less to share loot with, very clever.
@dijax: cool story bro.
Last edited by Xootch; Dec 25th, 2012 at 16:59:54.
I like Psykie's mindset.
Considering this mindset, agent really need only a few boosts.
All out crit setup isn't bad, with Chaos, maybe 2/3rd of a NT's damage ?
You can also, in a number of encounters, FP crat and add in 2 pets.
If you are lower level, i think something has to be tried in FP NT, insta casting Izgimmer's Envelopping Flame will give you a flat boost to your DPS since your weapon will fires normally during IEF's recharge time.
For a more extreme idea, and 220... I like the idea of maximizing +damage !
But i think a shen stick MA setup would shine more, since it gives even more damage per minute !
The idea of a maxed out twinked MA agent is crazily appealing. It's even more so that you really have to try it before saying it sucks or not : the amount of variables and complex game mechanics involved gave me headaches each time i tried to predict what kind fo damagae output that would give. It's even more complicated now that +dmg affect perk. And procs.
tldr; i think yall wine too much, simply put, agent is hard and complex and give less returns for huge effort compared to many other prof. It is no wonder people don't pick agent cause most agents don't even try.
@ Xootch i have many other cool stories in that vein ! I ll send in private if you want !
the problem is agents don't exist in a vacuum. why take 2/3rds of an nt dmg when you can take all of an nt's dmg in the form of an nt?
why take an fp crat wit h2 charms if you can take a real crat wit hcarlo and decent debuffs (and literally 3x the dpm)
why take an agnet spamming IEF at lower levels when a real nt spamming VE gives more xp/hour?
do you see the trend? it's not that agents are weak or anything, it's just anything an agent can do someone else can do better, faster, more efficiently and with less effort.
You can simply not trap yourself in that kind of thinking. I mean, PvM is boring enough. Sure i can hop on my NT and deals wonderful DD with minimum effort and tank most thing in game with just a doc or sometimes just a crat, but it gets old quick. Agent has many other enjoyable aspects. Wider possibilities, complexity, ability to think outside the box, mainly. Goin in that direction is much more appealing then whining "blablabla i m nerfed and i can't find team". Ultimatly, you can just form teams yourself. You can make PvM appealing by pushing boundaries, by yourself. And i think an agent offers that, even if it's not flat efficient or the quickest way to do it. I am very fine playing my agent in that vacuum. Then you team other players and they join you in your lill world of challenge and outside the box thinking, not the other way around. They tell you are the nerfest, you have no DD, and you swap in that crit setup, Chaos, FP crat and odds em. And laugh at em.
Quicky, the 2/3rd of NT's dmg is with, i believe, crit Chaos only. Add in the 2 pets (and 4% crit aura while at it), and you are a good DPS. Glass canon.
Also IEF spam is single dmg DD, don't compare it to VE. And the agent with IEF spam and good tl5 weapon dmg will odd the poor NT spamming TotP or whatever single damage setup the NT can be running around with.
Edit : I was just trying to make a quick list of all the gameplay's aspect that an agent can bring, both PvM and PvP, and the list is simply too huge, and many ideas of things i have not tried yet nor heard about comes to mind. Agents are like a swiss army knife. I agree the core efficiency should be enhanced, which would then, combined with the wide potential, makes it the best profession in game by far, in term of entertainment, content, offered to the player.
Last edited by Djiax; Dec 25th, 2012 at 20:52:48.
So to sum up the findings of this thread, in 90% of the cases:
Why take a ... for debuff / CC when you can invite a crat instead?
Why take a ... for heals when you can get a doc instead?
Why take a ... for tanking when you can have a soldier instead?
Good job figuring out 5y old news!
The problem is not with agents or traders or MPs, the problem is the ****ing holy trinity, and the lack of incentives to use anything else.
usually the 220 main he's /following :P
i dont think that true. agents arent invited to teams not because they cant do things as good as the real prof, they arent invited because they contribute jack, not even decent dps. when compared to doc, they cant heal worth anything without raid /fail due to ch taunt (and even ch healing woudl be ridiculous by todays standards), they do a fraction of crat damage but even worse can debuff with crat stuff at all. also, they cant provide any reflect in sl. its not that they bring less to the table, they bring next to nothing to a raid force that often enough is 3 people these days.
Last edited by Xootch; Dec 26th, 2012 at 05:31:41.
I always saw Agents as a one-man army class. Sucky in teams, excellent on their own, like MPs.
Personally, I'd enjoy it if Agents could personalize and upgrade their rifles to suit themselves tactically - for example, with an Agent-only shop, they can disassemble weapons, and edit them to have:
Lower recharge, for a better AS cycle (Recoil Modifier)
Higher criticals (Improved Scope)
An offensive proc which scales to the ql of the gun (Damage, DoT, Stun, Dodge Debuff, Snare, DeTaunt)
A positive proc which affects the Agent (Healing, Evade Boost, Offensive Boost, Critical buff, Range increaser, ect).
Higher minimum damage
Lower evade check (for lowbies).
An endgame, upgraded rifle should be essentially a godgun for Agents only, with possible damage ranged such as:
550-750(750)
To really open up targets.
There should also be a questline for Agents to earn OTHER CLASSES Specialisations, making Agents less of a "Lvl to 220, pwnpwnpwn" and more of a "Learn, adapt, specialise" type, being really good at their assigned task.
rofl no
sincerely, everyone who has to pvp against agents.
i havent pvped on my agent for almost 2 years (just a buffho these days). back then i stood a chance against most folks (/w tohwas ofc), crucial was to have a concept of opponing profs tactics. how's it today? stompu seems to do okay? but i imagine we fell downhill quite a bit...? the point is, agent used to be crappy for pvm (can solo okay tho), but made a very interesting pvp class, which made up for that. but i'm not so sure if that is true any more.
Last edited by Xootch; Dec 26th, 2012 at 17:45:57.
well let's recap
they can get enough evades to reliably avoid FA's even with debuff up
cycling through 10 fp's is considered "selfed"
and, ofc eating 4 capped aimedshots out of sneak while running around is always a barrel of laughs /s
yup. agents' pvp performance really took a dive in the last 2 years :P
Last edited by Lazy; Dec 27th, 2012 at 02:27:47.
Hang on.
-Cycling 10 TPs isn't selfed. It's OBed to the hilt.
-4 Agents all ganking together sucks yeah. So does 4 shades, 4 engis, 4 NTs, 4 advs. In fact, I bet 4 doctors all hitting AS/malp together has a good chance of gibbing a fixer.
-Also, top reasonable dodge def for an Agent is around 3100ish, selfed. That's using RI and notucomm. Things like non-modified notucomm and motfk could push it up or down, but that's a good ballpark.
Lazy, the guys you're fighting probably have 12m, towers, contracts, and crat aura.
However, the thread is about agent damage and usefulness in a PvM team.
You gained 96 PVP Solo Score.
Angelyna: (03:55) Srompu forces your NCU to run Feet of Stone...
[Theater of Tragedy] Johnnykay: he's a 220 crat and srompu is probably wearing tl5 symbs
[Theater of Tragedy] Johnnykay: he deserved to die
ganking lazy with a team = agent pvp skill these days? now if that aint going downhill i don't know what is.
you haven't lived until you've seen an all-agent bs raid.
Maybe with a bigger rifle, they could specialize.
I don't think a snare'll do much to a Fixer.
Or a Dodge-Debuff to an Engineer.
Personalized rifles are the best rifles of all time!
well, if we knew about the whens of the rebalance, this discussion would be pointless. maybe op is asking for a well thought through temporary fix, much like the as pistol. in that case wyomings rifle stats could be very real. (appearently fc temporary fix employee rarely works, but if he does, he only works after a complicated yet serious dosis of a secret drug cocktail that - imo - must contain a dose of lsd that is leathal to the unprimed human body)
I'm totally making an agent on test to get together some DPM numbers, what's the damage parser which breaks down nano damage, special damage, etc. I just use the old standard damage dumper.
Your best DPM is going to be dual Tonfas. I don't think anything else will even come close.
Dual pistols will probably be second, based on some rough number crunching I did.
That being said, most professions can at least function in PvP while in a PvM setup because of defensive perks. By going anything other than Rifle on an Agent, you lose out an almost every single perk, which are all offensive perks.
Im going to look for the best DPM from mimics as well, but the whole point is going to be that agent's are not given a viable means to reach effective levels of damage while remaining in their intended toolset. I need to run some actual tests though, compare them to the other tests I have been running too, otherwise I'd be like one of those guys that makes up random numbers and uses them as "facts" in a discussion
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