Can any profession...

[Obtena]

There's something about a breed change in there that means you are CHOOSING to be suboptimal.

Wow, what a logical rationalization ... I guess that means there is something about profession choice that means you are CHOOSING to be suboptimal against enfos for PVP as well. Therefore, everyone QQing about enfos in PVP should just STFU like non-atrox enfos should too AMIRIGHT? I mean, if people are getting steamrolled by enfos because they choose the wrong profession, it must be their fault!!!! If your answer is that all PVP enfos should switch breed to be optimal, then I guess my answer to all people QQing about being killed by OPed enfos is :drumroll:

REROLL!!

... I'm so glad you just gave us /thread here.

[Obtena]

Above average+way OP'd in the primary breed... is... OP'd.

That might make sense if I could change breed on a whim to be OPed in PVP when I want to. Just because there are OPed Atrox enfos out there doesn't mean that the non-atrox ones should be considered to have the same PVP capability. They clearly don't and making statements like you have would imply you're only interested in sticking it to enfos because they do well in PVP. If that's your intent, just say so. Otherwise, stop being so obtuse.

What is pretty clear by all these threads is that there really isn't a genuine interest in fixing what's wrong here. Just grab your torch and pickfork and keep including yourself in the mindless peasantry.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

That might make sense if I could change breed on a whim to be OPed in PVP when I want to. Just because there are OPed Atrox enfos out there doesn't mean that the non-atrox ones should be considered to have the same PVP capability. They clearly don't and making statements like you have would imply you're only interested in sticking it to enfos because they do well in PVP. If that's your intent, just say so. Otherwise, stop being so obtuse.

What is pretty clear by all these threads is that there really isn't a genuine interest in fixing what's wrong here. Just grab your torch and pickfork and keep including yourself in the mindless peasantry.

Enfs have been in the top echelon of PVP prof choices for what 11 years now?

couldn't be time for a change... naw, wait till 20 years.

Where's the rest of my lynch mob!

Get'im boys!

[Obtena]

Enfs have been in the top echelon of PVP prof choices for what 11 years now?

And that has what relevance if you are genuinely interested in making more professions and breeds more balanced in PVP? As many profs and breeds as possible should be addressed and how long they have been at the top or bottom has no relevance to how they should perform in PVP when they are balanced. You're just being a spiteful.

[sultryvoltron]

Wow, what a logical rationalization ... I guess that means there is something about profession choice that means you are CHOOSING to be suboptimal against enfos for PVP as well. Therefore, everyone QQing about enfos in PVP should just STFU like non-atrox enfos should too AMIRIGHT? I mean, if people are getting steamrolled by enfos because they choose the wrong profession, it must be their fault!!!! If your answer is that all PVP enfos should switch breed to be optimal, then I guess my answer to all people QQing about being killed by OPed enfos is :drumroll:

REROLL!!

... I'm so glad you just gave us /thread here.

I believe the entire point of the thread is "what profession should I be so I can survive a 1hb/1he Enfo alpha".

So, how have you solved the thread if your answer is "not the profession you currently are"?

[Obtena]

I believe the entire point of the thread is "what profession should I be so I can survive a 1hb/1he Enfo alpha".

So, how have you solved the thread if your answer is "not the profession you currently are"?

If you want to get to that, the answer to that is really easy: soldier. If that's something people don't know, they are either trolling really hard or noobs and you're falling for it. I mean, if you want to have an honest discussion, maybe you should stop pretending to be ignorant about what we are really talking about for the last 4 pages. You certainly shouldn't be making suggestions that it's reasonable for other people to choose game parameters and expect a level of PVP performance ... except if you're an enfo like you did a few posts above.

[sultryvoltron]

If you want to get to that, the answer to that is really easy: soldier. If that's something people don't know, they are either trolling really hard or noobs and you're falling for it. I mean, if you want to have an honest discussion, maybe you should stop pretending to be ignorant about what we are really talking about for the last 4 pages. You certainly shouldn't be making suggestions that it's reasonable for other people to choose game parameters and expect a level of PVP performance ... except if you're an enfo.

An honest examination of the difference between buyable breed changes and rerolling professions shows that the two are not even remotely comparable.

[Obtena]

An honest examination of the difference between buyable breed changes and rerolling professions shows that the two are not even remotely comparable.

That's a matter of opinion. Regardless, you have made an unreasonable proposal that someone rolling an enfo is choosing to be suboptimal if they aren't atrox, while someone rolling steamrolled professions are not choosing to be gimp if they don't want to be pwned by an enfo. The analogy is the same. You make choices for parameters in the game that affect what your capabilities are. You don't get to be selective in how your logic is applied just so your ridiculous argument sounds good. I mean, I guess you can, but you don't look so smart when you do it. /shrug.

[sultryvoltron]

are not choosing to be gimp if they don't want to be pwned by an enfo.

Your attempt to stretch the matter is getting so convoluted that you're beginning to use double negatives.

[Psikie]

For just plain duel/toe to toe kill power I would choose those over enfo. But thats personal preference.

Shades who pvp don't have two damage perklines either. Shades and keepers are also kiteable, have fewer or no on demand stuns (no int debuff), smaller alphas, are susceptible to roots, and don't have any fear nano to throw out while your MR is firing up followed by a huge snare to hold them still while you mash your perk alpha macro.

I'm not really talking about towers or BS here where all those tools come into play. Kiting/fears/snares/roots don't matter when fighting face to face 1on1.

[MassDebater]

The dev's had plenty of chances to fix this. It's been 2 years, so I think at this point it's safe to say they don't care.
Hypothetically though, assuming we had Dev's who cared about pvp:
- Remove all the stuns
- Remove iMongo's huge hot
- Remove Enfo absorb item
- Remove 1hb/1he exploit rather than encourage it
- Remove fear and snare
- Remove RS on rage


That should create more than two outcomes than: You die, or the enforcer runs away.

[Gatester]

The dev's had plenty of chances to fix this. It's been 2 years, so I think at this point it's safe to say they don't care.
Hypothetically though, assuming we had Dev's who cared about pvp:
- Remove all the stuns
- Remove iMongo's huge hot
- Remove Enfo absorb item
- Remove 1hb/1he exploit rather than encourage it
- Remove fear and snare
- Remove RS on rage


That should create more than two outcomes than: You die, or the enforcer runs away.

That is a bit much lol, an enforcer would be reduced to a punching bag with a ton of max health which people would have fun killing, wouldn't even need to kite them since they would be unable to kill you.

A few of those would be enough, or even most of them with some reasonable replacements like improving 2hb for PVP. If the alpha was a little easier to survive and the enforcer could not run away I think most people would be satisfied anyways. Just keep in mind, if the enforcer should not run then is it fair for others to run from the enforcer?

[MassDebater]

Theyd still have a hot on Imongo just not double the next one.

They'd still have a great perk alpha and 1k AAD.

They'd still their 4 or 5 heal perks and 35~k HP.

[Sromp]

What is this I don't even

Let me see if I followed the reasoning:

Enfos are OP.
Trox Enfos are more OP.
Both are balanced because Agents can stop playing and roll Soldiers instead.
?????????????????????

[Gatester]

You know I PVP'd most of the time on my enforcer without MR, only using it for a short period to help at towers and borealis ganking. To be honest, enforcer did fine in PVP as long as I made use of the rage mechanics and constantly ran away. You fight until your proc fires, challenger, and then try to perk your target with everything. If that fails you run away. If you try to stand an fight like I did for over a year, you will fail, rage, and think the profession is terrible. It just is not designed for that style of PVP.

It sucks, and it is lame, and your kill count is abyssmally small, but your death rate is practically nil. Compared to my solitus shade and atrox MA, it actually performed less effectively. Both my shade and MA could kill more often and survive prolonged encounters more easily, NT encounters being the exception. My MP was either slightly more likely to kill a target or was offensively pathetic with massive survival, which was terrible.

I suppose my point is that without MR or without being atrox, an enforcer's kill/death ratio is probably rather good, while other professions may kill significantly more often while dieing more often. I think most of us would prefer to die more often if we could kill more often though, and without relying on MR or 1he/1hb to do it. The enforcer PVP toolset is rather weak in mass PVP as well but there are some planned changes to improve that.

[Obtena]

Let me see if I followed the reasoning:

Enfos are OP.
Trox Enfos are more OP.
Both are balanced because Agents can stop playing and roll Soldiers instead.
?????????????????????

Well, you didn't follow all that well. Still, I give you the 'winz intrawebz' award so you don't walk away feeling bad for being unable to grasp the point being made. Participation is important.

[sultryvoltron]

Well, you didn't follow all that well. Still, I give you the 'winz intrawebz' award so you don't walk away feeling bad for being unable to grasp the point being made. Participation is important.

I think the point really is that you're full of ****.

[Gatester]

I think a better way for people to accept whether the professoin they use is OP is to determine what makes them OP.

Let's say agents as an example. Aimed Shot makes agents OP in some situations. Is AS an agent tool or a general tool? It is a general tool. AS is OP.

Mongo Rage makes an enforcer OP in some situations. Is MR an enforcer tool or a general tool? It is a general tool. MR is OP.

Rage makes enforcers OP in some situations. Is rage an enforcer tool or a general tool? It is an enforcer tool. Enforcers are OP.


Looking at it this way, while enforcers may not be OP because of MR they are OP because of rage. The trick is not nerfing what is made OP due to a tool, but nerfing what makes the tools OP, MR. When a professional tool itself is OP, then that tool needs to be nerfed, rage. Without MR the 1he/1hb alpha is more or less a toolset meant to kill non-evaders. Evade professions should not be vulnerable to alphas which are typically 20k+ in damage but non-evaders who rely on active defenses or damage mitigation tools should.

My comments should be taken as general opinion and not exactly how I would alter the game of course. I still dream of the day enforcers would rely on regular damage for PVP and lose their perk alphas.

[sultryvoltron]

I think a better way for people to accept whether the professoin they use is OP is to determine what makes them OP.

Let's say agents as an example. Aimed Shot makes agents OP in some situations. Is AS an agent tool or a general tool? It is a general tool. AS is OP.

Mongo Rage makes an enforcer OP in some situations. Is MR an enforcer tool or a general tool? It is a general tool. MR is OP.

Rage makes enforcers OP in some situations. Is rage an enforcer tool or a general tool? It is an enforcer tool. Enforcers are OP.


Looking at it this way, while enforcers may not be OP because of MR they are OP because of rage. The trick is not nerfing what is made OP due to a tool, but nerfing what makes the tools OP, MR. When a professional tool itself is OP, then that tool needs to be nerfed, rage. Without MR the 1he/1hb alpha is more or less a toolset meant to kill non-evaders. Evade professions should not be vulnerable to alphas which are typically 20k+ in damage but non-evaders who rely on active defenses or damage mitigation tools should.

My comments should be taken as general opinion and not exactly how I would alter the game of course. I still dream of the day enforcers would rely on regular damage for PVP and lose their perk alphas.

Enforcers are OP. MR is OP. Enforcers who use MR are double OP.

[MassDebater]

But really lets highlight the worst part which is that 1hb/he perk alphas are exploiting.


Yet no one is being banned?

I've seen permanent bans for far far less.