Monthly Development Update – Nov 5th 2012

[Misat0]

We're working through a bug list that came out of the test migration we ran internally on a copy, where we compared pre-migration and post-migration characters. There's not a lot of bugs, but we obviously need to fix them. This isn't one of those things we can ship with known issues.

I will give more information in the next monthly update.

Thanks for the update.

Are there some real game breakers in that list at least (The "Oh ****, how could that happen?" ones)?

Not that even the smallest bug in that process wouldn't be considered breaking by the players affected.

[Ekarona]

Thanks for the update.

Are there some real game breakers in that list at least (The "Oh ****, how could that happen?" ones)?

Not that even the smallest bug in that process wouldn't be considered breaking by the players affected.

I would let them take their time considering a few issues I have found with GMI... This isn't something you can fix very well later...

[Arguru]

We're working through a bug list that came out of the test migration we ran internally on a copy, where we compared pre-migration and post-migration characters. There's not a lot of bugs, but we obviously need to fix them. This isn't one of those things we can ship with known issues.

I will give more information in the next monthly update.

Macrosun: That can't happen.
Cube: That doesn't happen on my machine.
Ilaliya: That shouldn't happen.
Genele: Why does that happen?
Macrosun: Oh, I see.
Cube: How did that ever work?
Ilaliya: svn blame Silirrion
Macrosun: One day we will write tests.

[Misat0]

Exactly how I think about it Ekarona. I'm just curious about the nature / severity of those bugs.

Arguru, something link this also crossed my mind.

[Deemure]

It matters not the bugs they have found and are working to fix, although I have some concern about how thoroughly they are fixed. My bigger concern are the bugs they have not and may not be able to find in the test processes. For instance, I doubt they can test every profession with every possible option of manos, equipment, skills, etc. Hence there is the probably no way to test all facets.

Given the extraordinarily difficult testing environment, I am glad they are doing what they can to find and fix the bugs they can. I think, however, it is an unrealistic and unfair expectation that testing a change of this magnitude can catch all the trouble spots.

[MachSchau]

I just have a feeling that problems will arise no matter how hard they work on this merge. Maybe not for everyone and I think the problems will be varied to small and large. I only hope that we have enough CR available to take care of the issues swiftly.

[Phixalicious]

I think, however, it is an unrealistic and unfair expectation that testing a change of this magnitude can catch all the trouble spots.

I don't think it's unrealistic or unfair at all. But then again, I've never subscribed to the "every game has bugs" blanket excuse fans and devs alike love to throw out when stuff fails to work correctly. And as Ilaliya himself pointed out, this is one of those times it has to be done right the first time.

[Traderjill]

I think the server migration is a good time to give out a free month.

While I'm probably going to have one paid account active for the opportunity to see how things are/play with a new group of people (RK1 folks) I don't know that i'd want to reactivate my other now inactive paid accounts.

The concern/fear I have is that something will go wrong/bug out and by the time the new engine/new player experience/etc come out (and I do actually resub those accounts) it'll be way past Funcom's usual timeframe to recover items or resolve the issue.

Alternatively, a free week or a reduced cost month (1/2 off) would be cool as well just so people can make sure everything is good with their toons, recover names, get back up to speed with org ranks, etc.

[Ekarona]

I think the server migration is a good time to give out a free month.

While I'm probably going to have one paid account active for the opportunity to see how things are/play with a new group of people (RK1 folks) I don't know that i'd want to reactivate my other now inactive paid accounts.

The concern/fear I have is that something will go wrong/bug out and by the time the new engine/new player experience/etc come out (and I do actually resub those accounts) it'll be way past Funcom's usual timeframe to recover items or resolve the issue.

Alternatively, a free week or a reduced cost month (1/2 off) would be cool as well just so people can make sure everything is good with their toons, recover names, get back up to speed with org ranks, etc.

I suggest giving the currently playing players a week or two of headstart with this stuff. Just to play it fair ;D

[Windguaerd]

Of the merge doesn't happen today, then it needs to be postponed until at least Jan. In Dec people come back for xmas stuff and they may be confused with the migration and potential problems from it.

Start 2013 with a new server, united community and a free month.

[Hardcore]

Of the merge doesn't happen today, then it needs to be postponed until at least Jan. In Dec people come back for xmas stuff and they may be confused with the migration and potential problems from it.

Start 2013 with a new server, united community and a free month.

That'd kept me from not re-subbing. The only reason I want to activate my account is because of the eventuall merge that is happening. Else than that I'm not super interested in anything else. I play to pvp nowadays, and new faces means new fun, new strategies and best of all - MORE ACTION!

[MachSchau]

Of the merge doesn't happen today, then it needs to be postponed until at least Jan. In Dec people come back for xmas stuff and they may be confused with the migration and potential problems from it.

Start 2013 with a new server, united community and a free month.

People who dont keep up with AO will be confused anyways so your point is moot.

[Cratertina]

Funcom is really steping up in my view as game developer. Atleast in AO that I follow and play. It's becoming more epic every day. and now with server merge, one of first major system changes, things are looking up for AO.

[MachSchau]

The changes recently have been really good. Sadly, they have come way too late. If stuff like this came out 3-5 years ago I dont think we would be in the same situation. But a lack of system changes isn't why people leave in an MMO, I think it is more about content also. There hasn't been real content since LoX.

[Deemure]

I don't think it's unrealistic or unfair at all. But then again, I've never subscribed to the "every game has bugs" blanket excuse fans and devs alike love to throw out when stuff fails to work correctly. And as Ilaliya himself pointed out, this is one of those times it has to be done right the first time.

The game code is old, using several generations of devepolment techniques and capabilities. Plus the simple math says it is effectively impossible to test everything. Simple math people. There are 220 levels, 70 researches, 12,000 nanos, tens of thousands of possibilites for IP application, and probablyh 30,000 likely options for armor, 20 for weapons, dozens of playfields, and not sure what else I may have forgotten. By my math, this equates to well over 15 billion possiblities to test. They could test this until eternity freezes over and still not get every possible combination. So lighten up. Yes it needs to be done right, but is if foolish to expect that it will be done perfectly. There are simply too many combinations and the cage/code is too complex for even the most determined and sophisticated testing plan to capture everything. If you look at my posts, you will see I am about as far from being an apologist as there is on the forums. But this is a prime case of paralysis by testing. So it is appropriate to give them some slack on it. It is more important that they try to avoid the major problems and have teams standing by to fix things quickly as they are discovered. I can assure you that having been responsible for major application development and migration in the past, this is a task that is most difficult to do.

[Lazy]

The changes recently have been really good. Sadly, they have come way too late. If stuff like this came out 3-5 years ago I dont think we would be in the same situation. But a lack of system changes isn't why people leave in an MMO, I think it is more about content also. There hasn't been real content since LoX.

except for ... y'know... db3 ... and gauntlet... and s7... and dark ruins... and dailies... and that notum miner area...

The game code is old, using several generations of devepolment techniques and capabilities. Plus the simple math says it is effectively impossible to test everything. Simple math people. There are 220 levels, 70 researches, 12,000 nanos, tens of thousands of possibilites for IP application, and probablyh 30,000 likely options for armor, 20 for weapons, dozens of playfields, and not sure what else I may have forgotten. By my math, this equates to well over 15 billion possiblities to test. They could test this until eternity freezes over and still not get every possible combination. So lighten up. Yes it needs to be done right, but is if foolish to expect that it will be done perfectly. There are simply too many combinations and the cage/code is too complex for even the most determined and sophisticated testing plan to capture everything. If you look at my posts, you will see I am about as far from being an apologist as there is on the forums. But this is a prime case of paralysis by testing. So it is appropriate to give them some slack on it. It is more important that they try to avoid the major problems and have teams standing by to fix things quickly as they are discovered. I can assure you that having been responsible for major application development and migration in the past, this is a task that is most difficult to do.

it's actually quite easy. duplicate a live db, transfer it over, and check to see iff both are the same. if they are, ez pz, you're done. the problem comes when something doesn't go as planned and picking through the blobs to see what went wrong :P

[Traderjill]

except for ... y'know... db3 ... and gauntlet... and s7... and dark ruins... and dailies... and that notum miner area...

I think the problem is that there hasn't been what many of us define as real content (stuff that allows for robust exploration, multiple playfields to be explored/mastered, etc and can't be steamrolled by a team of 3-4 in less than a week). AO needs an expansion of Shadowlands proportion. It is long overdue.

Before anyone says that you can't stop people from steamrolling through content, I will say that I disagree. Game devs can put in gates that prevent players from just going from A to Z in 7 days and it can be done in a way that isn't super restrictive to players. They sorta had that gate with Xan in that you had to do the Arid and Neretva quests to gain access to the instances but they took it away.

[Lazy]

I think the problem is that there hasn't been what many of us define as real content (stuff that allows for robust exploration, multiple playfields to be explored/mastered, etc and can't be steamrolled by a team of 3-4 in less than a week). AO needs an expansion of Shadowlands proportion. It is long overdue.

Before anyone says that you can't stop people from steamrolling through content, I will say that I disagree. Game devs can put in gates that prevent players from just going from A to Z in 7 days and it can be done in a way that isn't super restrictive to players. They sorta had that gate with Xan in that you had to do the Arid and Neretva quests to gain access to the instances but they took it away.

we're currently in this weird loop of bleeding players -> less money to play devs -> less devs working full time -> less content being made -> more people leaving etc.

i dont see where the manpower amd money for another proper sl-like expansion is oging to come from tbh...

[MachSchau]

except for ... y'know... db3 ... and gauntlet... and s7... and dark ruins... and dailies... and that notum miner area...




it's actually quite easy. duplicate a live db, transfer it over, and check to see iff both are the same. if they are, ez pz, you're done. the problem comes when something doesn't go as planned and picking through the blobs to see what went wrong :P

Thats not real content, just flavors of the month.

[Esssch]

except for ... y'know... db3 ... and gauntlet... and s7... and dark ruins... and dailies... and that notum miner area...

I thought Dark Ruins came out before LoX.