So, About the "Neutral Neck Item Imbalance"

[Notcrattey]

I think an "as good as clan and omni" token board would be a terrible idea, since being neutral would therefore be the most effective choice for PVP.

For BS maybe, and then so what?

[aramsunat]

For BS maybe, and then so what?

towers. neut towers have a much smaller time frame when they are attackable

[Seoin]

Bump, it would be nice for the advantages and drawbacks of being neut/sided to be purely content and convenience based instead of applying limits to a characters potential.

I have nothing against neuts being able to become as 'powerful' as sided toons, and to be a 3rd faction that could hold it's own in pvp, but there needs to be something to balance the both-sides-of-battlestation and every-garden-exit thing. Or there wouldn't really be any reason to be sided.

[sultryvoltron]

I have nothing against neuts being able to become as 'powerful' as sided toons, and to be a 3rd faction that could hold it's own in pvp, but there needs to be something to balance the both-sides-of-battlestation and every-garden-exit thing. Or there wouldn't really be any reason to be sided.

I don't see why people think having every garden exit is an actually good benefit...

It saves a few minutes running max and requires you to do the garden key quest twice.

Also, having as many people as possible who can go on either side of the battlestation sounds like its only positive. There are literally no negative aspects of that. In fact, the benefits are so overwhelmingly positive, that most people would love the idea of a red vs blue battlestation with randomly assigned sides.

[Lazy]

Also, having as many people as possible who can go on either side of the battlestation sounds like its only positive. There are literally no negative aspects of that. In fact, the benefits are so overwhelmingly positive, that most people would love the idea of a red vs blue battlestation with randomly assigned sides.

glad you found so many good reasons for being a neut. looks like you dont need a better board after all.

[Gatester]

For BS maybe, and then so what?

You seen what Artyomis proposed in the side change thread, well imagine if everyone did do that...and stayed neutral. The way it is, clan and omni are more or less equivalent, so PVP can at least exist because those two factions will fight each other.

If neutral was gear-equivalent to clan and omni, having the current advantage in battlestation PVP as well as having the highest number of possible PVP targets, then the shift would occur. What becomes 45% clan, 45% omni, and 10% neutral PVP could look more like 10% clan, 10% omni, and 80% neutral PVP.


Imagine the impact on tower wars and open PVP in these cases. There is a possible good result, if neutrals were willing to fight amongst themselves, otherwise PVP would be unlikely to occur because one of three groups would have a significant majority in PVP events as opposed to two relatively equal groups consistently fighting with an independant third minority.


TL : DR

I think a viable longterm neutral majority would be the complete death of PVP.

[sultryvoltron]

I think a viable longterm neutral majority would be the complete death of towers.

I agree. It wouldn't be the death of all PvP though, not by a longshot.

[Unikorn]

I think an "as good as clan and omni" token board would be a terrible idea, since being neutral would therefore be the most effective choice for PVP. I do not believe we want neutrals being the dominant PVP faction.

What most neutrals want, however, is simply comparable computer literacy and runspeed on their quality neck items. Even if it is less, being closer is what the real issue is. Neutrals do not need a Paragon board, just add comp lit and runspeed to the xan boards and maybe give a TL3-TL6 set of neck items which are about 15-20% less quality than faction neck items.

Yes, yes please. This is exactly what I have been thinking Funcom should consider doing. Thanks for making that clear.

EDIT:
Also, @ BS advantage: Just change how BS works, so that it's not about Omni battling Clans. Make it Group 1 and Group 2. It would fix the problem of the lack of players of either side to start BS. This solution would also reduce the childish bickering of the opposing sides. 'Omnis always 4cap' etc etc.
This 'advantage' is more of an advantage to sided players rather than Neutrals. We fill your spots. We make BS start so you can trash-talk each other to death.

[Dagget]

Group 1[/i] and Group 2. It would fix the problem of the lack of players of either side to start BS. This solution would also reduce the childish bickering of the opposing sides. 'Omnis always 4cap' etc etc.

BS should never be changed to 'Red Vs Blue' or 'Group1 Vs Group2'. It might be more convenient from a numbers point of view but that is simply the MinMax crowd translating their spreadsheet to the game. The game is about Omni Vs Clan (with Neutrals in the mix) and anything that tries to sanitize that diminishes the game. But this is a topic for another thread.

As for Neutrals getting closer, or even equal comp lit in neck items, I have no objection. Things like HP, Dmg, and AAO/AAD are the more important items to separate them by.

.

[sultryvoltron]

BS should never be changed to 'Red Vs Blue' or 'Group1 Vs Group2'. It might be more convenient from a numbers point of view but that is simply the MinMax crowd translating their spreadsheet to the game. The game is about Omni Vs Clan (with Neutrals in the mix) and anything that tries to sanitize that diminishes the game. But this is a topic for another thread.

As for Neutrals getting closer, or even equal comp lit in neck items, I have no objection. Things like HP, Dmg, and AAO/AAD are the more important items to separate them by.

.

Really? I thought it was about foolheartedly exploring the shadowlands, committing xenocidal chores for ergo and the redeemed/unredeemed, fighting off the alien threat, stopping the psychotic dust brigade, and learning more about the xan. At the same time, there may or may not be a war going on, because when there is not an immediate threat to their towers, each side will congregate together in neutral cities, go to dance parties, and work on the above tasks together.

[Kopecz]

Really? I thought it was about foolheartedly exploring the shadowlands, committing xenocidal chores for ergo and the redeemed/unredeemed, fighting off the alien threat, stopping the psychotic dust brigade, and learning more about the xan. At the same time, there may or may not be a war going on, because when there is not an immediate threat to their towers, each side will congregate together in neutral cities, go to dance parties, and work on the above tasks together.

You forgot to add "endlessly killing off one poor dragon."

[Unikorn]

You forgot to add "endlessly killing off one poor dragon."

Lol. Poor Tarasque. :')

[aramsunat]

I don't see why people think having every garden exit is an actually good benefit...

It saves a few minutes running max and requires you to do the garden key quest twice.

Also, having as many people as possible who can go on either side of the battlestation sounds like its only positive. There are literally no negative aspects of that. In fact, the benefits are so overwhelmingly positive, that most people would love the idea of a red vs blue battlestation with randomly assigned sides.

sounds like it sucks to be neutral. May I suggest picking a side? It will magically make all your problems go away. Really.

[sultryvoltron]

sounds like it sucks to be neutral. May I suggest picking a side? It will magically make all your problems go away. Really.

Your contribution to this thread is both meaningful, and valuable.

[Lazy]

Your contribution to this thread is both meaningful, and valuable.

he has a point. if you want a tokenboard that bad, go sided. if you're not willing to go sided for a token board then clearly the advantages to being neutral outwiegh the negatives and no tokenboard is needed.

[Shareida]

Why don't we just eliminate all differences between Omni, Clan, and neut, delete all but one profession, throw the storyline away, and call it a day?

[aramsunat]

Why don't we just eliminate all differences between Omni, Clan, and neut, delete all but one profession, throw the storyline away, and call it a day?

people would whine about gender imbalance

[aramsunat]

Your contribution to this thread is both meaningful, and valuable.

Just as meaningful as this thread

[sultryvoltron]

Just as meaningful as this thread

New lead designer, new thread.

[Xirayne]

I have nothing against neuts being able to become as 'powerful' as sided toons, and to be a 3rd faction that could hold it's own in pvp, but there needs to be something to balance the both-sides-of-battlestation and every-garden-exit thing. Or there wouldn't really be any reason to be sided.

Pretty much. I'd like it a lot if there was more to being omni or clan than just who has tl7 towers and a very few select items. Some more omni and clan specific content and conveniences would help ****e up the factions. It's a real shame that pretty much the only difference in content is which garden you pull inf missions from

What I'd like would be for FC to design some faction specific content and quests to further give each of the factions some personality. I'd love to see the war between omni and clan pick up, and content for it. A proper conflict between the factions is very important for keeping a game healthy, and right now that is lacking. I just don't want the devs to think that faction specific items that give one(or two) factions a set-in-stone power advantage over the other is a legitimate way to create that conflict and balance the sides. If neutral is to be designed as a less desired faction, then make it require more work than the other factions to reach the same rewards.