No, it wouldn't be too much, it just wouldn't be necessary. Why not give them a daily that gives them gear instead of credits? Let me just lay it out here ....Originally Posted by slythea
You're saying that you want to help newbies that need gear so you want to give them .... credits. :/
Last edited by Obtena; Oct 7th, 2012 at 17:15:41.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
lmfao are you retarded? i proposed that several times before, you even replied to that.
but, making quests with prof specific reward takes ages to code. a daily with 100k cred reward will have the same effect, newbies would use it to buy belts, ncu, nanos, shopweapons.
after 40 lvls theyd stop doing them cuz they find other stuff that gives more credits by selling
That's just your assumption and not really relevant anyways. Just because you think it would be easier to hand out credits in a daily doesn't mean it's a good solution to getting newbies gear. If that's the case, it's best to do absolutely nothing. Furthermore, giving someone gear as a reward does not have the same impact as giving them credits, especially if the kind of people you want to implement this for are the newest players that according to you, seemingly completely helpless and probably have no clue where, what or when to spend those credits anyways. I'm also chuckling at the suggestion that somehow, they become self-sufficient at level 40. Gear isn't easier to get the higher you level. If you can't do it in the teens, you aren't going to somehow pull it together in the 40's.
Last edited by Obtena; Oct 7th, 2012 at 18:06:17.
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Not one time have I suggested to solve the problem by throwing money at players.
Your anecdotal evidence would only be valid if you could provide statistics of how many new players join the game per month, how many players continue to play the game for more than one month, and how many of those players reach 200+ over time. Are you confident that the numbers will add up in your favor?
Saying that "thousands of players . . . some how through great adversity, managed to level to the endgame" is akin to saying "some people have sawed off their own arm to survive being trapped in the ice on Mount Everest". It's a very interesting story, but it ignores the amount of people who have gotten trapped and died on that journey, and presents the dangers as trivial non-issues. Essentially, it has no meaning at all.
P.S. Consider how many players AO has had at it's peak. How does it compare to the playerbase peak of other games that have better progressions through the learning curve?
That's a good turn around for you then, considering your first response to me in this thread was ...
... which seems to indicate that new player problems are related to getting credits to buy gear instead of players ability to get the gear itself. It's good to see your onboard with the absurdity of the original suggestion of this thread, which is to simply throw credits at new players.
Last edited by Obtena; Oct 8th, 2012 at 03:03:18.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
The problem is, indeed, that new players are unable to afford to buy basic equipment by being self-sufficent. This is an identification of the problem.
The solution to the problem, and therefore the suggestion portion, could involve a number of different things ranging from questable gear, lower prices for gear found in basic shops, lower prices for premade implants from the profession implant terminals, or increasing the value of shopfood from sub-25 Rubi-Ka to at least give more return than shopfood found on newbie island.
There, I finally have suggested that the problem could be solved by giving new players more money. However, I did so in a logical way that follows very simple reasoning. Sub-25 shopfood on Rubi-Ka sells for less than Perfectly Formed Seashells lootable off of lvl 5 mobs on newbie island that can be killed in one hit.
Troll on Obtena.
P.S. Nobody has ever taken any one of the OP's suggestions seriously, although he did have a few gems of creativity hidden in a few of his threads. Oh and thanks for putting our conversation in your sig. It could use a bit more exposure before the New Player Experience is completed. FC has been actively working on this for so long, that most people have probably forgotten that it was a problem.
Well, that's where I disagree with you. Believe it or not, you or anyone else don't actually need credits to play AO, indicating the significant factor to self-sufficiency and success isn't your wealth. Everything you need to be self-sufficient is farmable, lootable and for the most part, tradeable as well. Now, I'm not saying how hard or easy that would be or wanting to get into a discussion about how fun it would be either (it would suck), but the most successful people in the game farm their loot, no question. That's ESPECIALLY true at the lowest levels for new players because quite frankly, the stuff you get from doing missions, etc ... isn't better than the crap you can buy in the shop or trade other players for. Of course, you can argue that getting nanos and building implants with that approach would be an absolute pain in the arse. I will give you that and yes, for those things, probably best to have areas to get some credits.
Here is where it gets fun. Impressively enough, FC already thought of that when they released AO from day one, considering that they actually WANTED people to be able to play the game. No, I don't agree that you don't make enough money from doing newbie stuff to buy those basic things. You do, I have and so have many others for the last decade. Arguing otherwise is rather stupid because logically, it should mean no one could ever play this game. Every AO player starts with nothing, had the newbie experience and managed to level with the same amount of difficulty. It's not insurmountable like you sensationalize it to be. Whatever difficulty threshold you are referring to as impossible is way above that of basic gear needed to level. Anyone that argues it's not possible to play this game as a newbie should be getting extremely strange looks from every single player because we have ALL had that experience.
Giving new players money, no matter how cleverly you think you are can do it, will not show anyone what is needed to be successful in AO, will not guarantee them items they need to level will be available for purchase when they need them, tell them where to purchase those items or even give them any idea of what they should be purchasing to help them along. The impact of giving a new players credits is almost nothing when compared to giving them some fundamental information and a few helpful items. It's an incredibly ridiculous fix to hand someone credits when what they really want and need is gear and a clue how to play. Honestly, I hope FC devs are reading this thread. All the problems with high prices for things and player's mentality about how to get stuff stem from exactly the kind of bad ideas this thread is suggesting.
Last edited by Obtena; Oct 8th, 2012 at 05:36:08.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
You keep saying the same thing, and it still doesn't mean anything. More people quit this game than continue to play it at the moment. Something is wrong. Gear access is one of the things that needs help, specifically implants.
And that has NOTHING to do with access to credits. Handing someone a mitful of credits doesn't teach them a damn thing. The credits needed for those items are available through traditional methods and proven over the last decade to work for probably tens of thousands of players. Mind you, some of those players having played a much HARDER starting experience than new players would be experiencing today. You simply aren't going to have a sensible argument that says that it's too hard for new players to get basic gear (either through paying for it or farming it) and level based on whatever your evidence is, while it completely contradicts the fact that current and veteran players have been doing exactly that with much more difficulty since the release of the game. The 'something' that needs improvement here is more information and guidance for new players, not more credits and cluelessness.
The only thing you are doing by giving people credits that would quit this game based on it's difficulty is a delay to the inevitable conclusion of their departure. What are these people going to do when they get to the level where you turn their credit faucet off? You simply can't have a system where you subsidize new players and then expect good results from them when you turn off the welfare.
Last edited by Obtena; Oct 8th, 2012 at 06:06:35.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Again, I'm not suggesting giving players more credits, except in one post where I listed the three major options for fixing the problem. Any of those options is a viable solution.
Granted, I do not think shopfood should be less valuable on RK than on newbie island. That is a seperate problem that falls under the same umbrella category. That being said, it is hard to argue against it as there is no reason for it.
You aren't suggesting to do it, but you aren't saying it shouldn't be done either. Seems that you learned fence sitting as an interesting new trolling technique in your hiatus. That's fine if you claim you don't have a position you want to stand by while contradicting yourself by arguing with people at the same time.
No matter. From where I sit as a player who has had the newbie experience, it's very easy for me to argue that there should be no further injection of credits towards new players as a way to help them out as it's not necessary, very short-sighted, temporary and counter-productive to teaching them what they need to know to play the game.
Last edited by Obtena; Oct 8th, 2012 at 06:25:53.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
I contend that the new player experience should include viable means to obtain basic gear through various methods. I suggest that implant costs should be lowered to more appropriate levels for profession implant terminals for all QLs up to 50.
I contend that shopfood should be a viable way for new players to earn credits to afford low level weapons, armor, implants, etc. I suggest that the value for shopfood for all RK weapons, armor, stims, nanos, etc. should be increased so that their value is at least greater than Melted Circuitboards and Perfectly Cut Seashells, making it more time efficient to shopfood items to vendors on the mainland than to stay on newbie island and farm those two items.
I contend that there is no linear progression to gaining a full set of gear (i.e. every slot filled) for sub-25 characters. I suggest that there be more profession specific options for questable armor other than Cybor Armor. Also, I suggest that the Living Cybor Armor Quests clue you in that the remaining pieces can be found in the subway. Finally, I suggest that you should be given, at the very least, three "significant" implants for your profession (for example, the three MC imps for a Nano Technician) and guided through the process of equipping them before you leave the newbie zone.
No fence sitting here, just bored with your trolling.
Also, nice job blaming me for a double negative. Might as well blame everyone who doesn't even post on the forums for being guilty of the same.
I will acknowledge that some implant help and direction for armor would be good, inline with the idea that giving information is more valuable than credits. Other than that, anything related to pricing or profession specific options either aren't necessary or already exist to enable new players a basic fundamental for leveling.
As for the blame, it was warranted. Have a position if you want to discuss issues.
Last edited by Obtena; Oct 8th, 2012 at 07:22:35.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
In my new player experience thread I discovered that a full set of premade implants costs over 100k credits. Without some outside knowledge of what to sell to players, I was only able to make 5k credits by the time I was level 15 by looting every single thing that dropped and shop fooding it, and by doing a few quests.
One piece of regular cyber armor cost me 4k credits, and I was required was to buy it for a quest.
The cost of implants and gear for a character who is not even supposed to leave Borealis is outrageous. But please, this thread needs more anecdotal evidence about how "all these players made it, and it doesn't matter who we lost along the way".
Finally, identifying issues is not the same as solving problems. You don't believe there is a problem, so identifying the problem using facts and statistics is important. Suggesting solutions to a problem that you don't think exists is a wasted effort.
the solutions you posted are clearly from veterans point of view. more money and cheaper items.
normal "lets buy everything" style of AO.
You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
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were you also not using the ingame OOC channel because you weren't told about it ingame?
when i started playing i, too, found out that **** was expensive. the first thing i did when i saw the price of a set of 30 imps costing 100k creds was ask in OOC what the easiest way to earn money was. i was instantly directed towards clicksaver, aouniverse and these here forums. don't forget we're playing an MMO where advice and help is available ingame in the form of player interaction.
You're wrong about credits, in my opinion but I can't disagree about armour choices. Stop over dramatising though. 'More people quit than play' - Surely, unless I failed miserably at maths, that would mean there was noone playing?
Regardless of what it means, because I suspect it's just badly worded and you're trying to say 1000 people play but 2000 people quit, that's still rubbish. The amount of people that quit over complexity, not understanding the game from scratch, the lack of graphics engine progress, etc etc - you have absolutely no pull tying the number of people that quit to this topic. The number of people quitting over this issue alone isn't likely to be huge.
Let's face it - a challenging economy is something one must expect when joining a game of this age. Even younger games like WoW are beginning to have this issue - it is inevitable. You are completely not wrong that new players have issues - but credits are neither the issue nor the solution.
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No he wasn't. The rule was he couldn't do anything unless someone told him about it or explained how to do it. So until someone told him that you could change channels and talk in OOC he was screwed, just like a new player.
The *veteran* economy is not a problem is how i would put that. Newbie economy is way out of whack. It still gives me nightmares how many concrete cushions I had to blitz to earn money for my first yalm. All 4 million creds worth. I died idk how many times trying this "blitzing" strategy i read about on the forums.
Didn't know about basic armor, didn't know morphing memories were pvp items, couldn't kill Eumi for the ncu ring to sell. No quests to do for some better weapon than the newb island bats i was using.
Shopfood wasn't worth a whole lot at all in RK dungeons. Then you get to SL and realize there's even less shopfood to be had. What with the only way to level being killing giant rocks and all.
Is something as basic as making RK shopfood worth more really going to hurt you, a veteran, in the long run? Not one bit. Will it helps some players out? Yes. Are shop prices exorbitantly high? Yes, everyone, even Obtena, agrees with that. Could they come down? Absolutely. The solution lies somewhere in the middle -- slightly better shopfood, slightly lower prices in shops, which is where newbs are gonna start.
solution: gief more money and make stuff cheaper.
You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
First shade with Blades of Boltar
---
How much is enough?
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