Another patch, another bureaucrat nerf. Just how unpopular does FC want crats to be?

[Blackwing]

are still around here (no pun intended)

one addendum:
it should be very well possible to a tl 6 soli crat to self cast rule of one.

have to dig for the calculations but i think wenzell pulled it off around 193 without going for a nuke layout.

[____________Psiraven]

Solitus crats can implant for Rule of One, but if they do that they are sacrificing...

-the best charms
-the best Droids
-the best speeches
-top end mezzes and area mezzes
-top end roots
-top end snares
-stuns (crat stuns have very high pm/si reqs

So, basically, if a Solitus Crat really wanted to be an NT with no cost reducers or HE's, they could do it by sacrificing everything which makes them a really good crat.

And if they use a weapon, they're attack rating is guaranteed to be crap, because they must dedicate the r. hand slot to a nanoskill just like an NT.

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

You don't need to give up that much. 2 groups really, before the 161 cap I was self casting Ro1 for nukes, and for charms using Inveigle Support and Charismatic Rapture. I'll hit TMD at 191. Stuns are pure PM and therefore have no conficts with Nuke set-ups, been using LE for a long time too. For single target calms I use Disjointed From Reality, or lower to save nano and Disjointed Psyche for area calms.

To be honest there is no realy advantage to use DFR over say Anger Addlement, your ams for either working is the same (PM/SI) and the resist is the same. The only difference is the higher one is slower to cast and lasts a lot longer, it comes in handy for my mission calming hot bar.

Where I took the hit is in all things Time and Space, and that includes Speeches, can cast AF but not GL, make a ghetto pet, which is really not much worse than no pet at all. But then again the best pet is about as worthless unless you are soloing. And of course last but not least roots and snares.

So what kept high:
Nukes
Stuns
Calms
Charm

What I gave up
Pets
Roots
Speeches above AF (till 191)

[Blackwing]

if i count 2 triumverate virral eggs and lvl 200 it is doable when using buff pistols ... since i did not tally in nelebs i have some margin of error even he.

the only problem is i would be stuck with that pos khan since i cannot self equip it due to the outrageous full auto reqs which means it is kinda a moot point :/

doable yes, practical .... dunno.

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

I don't use pistols, 2 virrals and a nooblibs yes.

[Blackwing]

i am to tired to cross check if the pistol skills negate each other but the only problem i ran across is that you need a pet soldier if you want to switch from the highest charm to highest pet because of the silly full auto req on the khan which is sadly (to my knowledge) the only pistol buffing time and space.

tsuyoshi and druid for a stable charm then back to an electronicum is np but the damn khan ruins everything

edit: nm i forgot the full auto cluster in the arm, doh.

so it would theoretically be possible for a soli crat to self cast everything if he got 2 eggs and buff pistols.

and it would be possible to switch the buff pistols around freely without needing buffs from other people.

i doubt i will ever find out how practical all this is since it also means he has to be at least 198 or so but after psi said you would drop so much i had to check it hehe.


me go sleepy now

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

I use a bright FA, not shining, Shining is AR =]

[paperjockey]

Nt's also have access to Nullity sphere. It may be rare but it is available Strycker. Fact of the matter in most teams that im in 160+ really dont need me besides maybe for my exp buff. Hell I can go off and precalm the entire mission and my team does A-OK. Ive been in several teams while the enforcer or soldier in group solo's the RM/Ace adds on boss while rest of group kills boss. Whats the point of me calming the adds than?

Id just like to add my 700 attack rating (with speech, wich i cant use in arena because it helps my enemies out hehe) is uberific, thanks funcom

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

Going to add one more thing to this NT nonsense.

Guess what I have to do to get 40m range on my nukes, and lower my nano cost enough to be able to kill a sol or opi? Yep, 1 hard core CPU upgrade and one Computer Deck Range Enhancer. If I want to keep insta-casting my nukes like the NT I need to leave my Recompiler in. That leaves me with what, 3x64 NCUs. You guys think you have it bad because you have to waste a slot on a recompiler. 55ncu for IOR 28% off all nano costs, PNH 52 NCU, +235 nano every 15sec.

13 NCU Coherent Nano Pathway 50% range, there ya go 39m

38 NCU CrunchCom Nano Compressor Pro -18% nano cost

So what costs me 124 NCU you can do in 51 NCU

And some NT is going to tell me I can out nuke him. LOL

[hhj]

Originally posted by Ityn

And some NT is going to tell me I can out nuke him. LOL

I feel for Crats just like I do for NT's but I have to disagree here with you:

You actually can out-nuke a NT with RoO and high enough nano-init, furthermore you should remember that you can also use a weapon - your bot - and charms so the NT wont iven come close damage wise.

Just my 2 cents... both classes need a tweak.

[paperjockey]

Heh, I see alot fo NT's with flashpoints..

And who is dumb enough to attack my low attack rating bot, and not just go after me instead?

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

In total damage output in an ideal situation Crat's can outdamage an NT. This is with 3 pets, guns and nukes. Without some NT buffs we run out of nano way too fast.

Comparing Ro1 to IEF isn't a good coparison, though the average damage over time is very close, and maybe Ro1 is even a few points higher, if you use VE your average damage per second is almost 2 times as high. Can you use VE in every situation? No. Can you use it in many, yes.

This idea situation is non-existant in PVP. A crat with one or two pets, and all his bells and whistles, if well played is no match for an equal level NT with all his bells and whistles. Not only do we run out of nano at an alarming rate, we can easily be outdamaged. When I had my high-level NT, Nullity-VE combos were very effective, and with VEs 950ish average damage per second with a high nano ini, no nuke can touch that.

In pvp pets are instantly disabled. They are nothing more than an annoyance. Then we come down to defensive nanos, nukes and guns. NT's and Crats have exactly the same potential in guns and NTs will exceed in nukes, esp with defensive nanos like NS.

Again, I'm not saying NTs don't need some help, NTs do fine in PVP they need more stuff for PVM, better damage nukes, maybe a better AMS modifier for adjusting nuke damage to NR, and maybe mob armor should stop effecting nukes in general. NTs aren't very desired in teams at high levels, many fear using the VE too much and NT's get agg way too easy. For PVP is is obvious that NS should also block all debuffs in addition to all damage.

Crats need love in PVP, and their CC abilities need to not continue to be nurfed in PVM beyond their current point.

Both classes do need work and soon. I just dislike ignorant posts like Strycker's, that are full of misinformation, half-truths, and cries for pity.

[_____________Rebbeca]

Don't forget that crat nukes are 50% based on a blue skill and 50% based on a green skill. Then add in the oh so wonderful all nano skills confilcting at the shining position and you get a crat who has alot less "attack rating" with nukes than a NT. This means more resists for us. It's like comparing a soldier with a nova flow with an enforcer with a pure 2hb weapon.

Also, in order to cast RoO, you basically have to give up TS implants.. which means your bot sucks (unless you are a TL6 nanomage with the special items). I can self cast like a 150-160ish bot because of it.

[Blackwing]

a better risk reward equation past the ominous ql 180 - 190 missions everybody is doing would help both calmers and healing classes.

both abilities turn redundant as the mob color dims yet there is no reason why any sane person should crank the diff higher or leave the max order to get human mobs.

which is a pity since some ao monsters look damn cool - problem is they are damn über compared to human mobs as well.

as for outside hunting not making the mobs immune to all sorts of crowd control would be a good start imo

[_____________Kresten]

IMHO.. It would be a mistake to let 14.6 go-live with NPC MoB's immune to Crowd control...

I can only hope that is is a bug and not a nerf... I have not seen an official reply regarding this issue so far so I prefer to be optimistic and believe that its only a bug in 14.6.

[Blackwing]

i was refering to the outside camps already in game

as *for* the bots and meta pets human mobs can throw up i say wait and see wether it goes life as it is.

if it does well sucks but at least i and some traders will now have an excuse to put an area root up in the favorite / quick bar.

[________________Enri]

I've been having trouble playing my crat lately. Why? Because they make the game too damn easy.

[Blackwing]

will stop for a (brief?) period.

at least if we are talking a team mission.

that calms and charms are extremely powerfull need not be argued.

what people argue against is that 2 of the classes defining features flat out do not work on bosses/things defined as super wicked badass.

if you kill the crowd control you have killed the main reason for invites into teams.

[_________Kalashnakof]

yea crats are one of my fav profs to team with

xtra xp mmm...
xtra 100 attack mmm...
or xtra 7% crit mmm...

calms arent that bad either

crats i think are the most beneficial to a team of any prof
but they shouldnt be the target for any nerfs at all

[Nova]

if you kill the crowd control you have killed the main reason for invite

This is the main problem!

If the 14.6 hit the live so that you can’t charm/calm mob pets, I call it big nerf to any calm professions. If you can’t do your crow controlling at low levels, you need good puller, not calmer.

At level 150+ my crat is not calmer at BS missions anymore, he is one of the damage maker. And he does really good damage.

My nukes do solid 1200-1800, damage.
(Nuke: Cat-0, 863-2,341, what usually hit that 863 only at bosses.)

I use Ithaca as my gun. With 8% scope and 7% crit speech, or if team have MA, I get mark and run the attack rating boost same time. My usually crits is 2.5k.

I do good gun/nuke damage and get agro often.

And boss room, I usually ask my team leave the minions to me, and promise that they will dance to you after the boss is dead. I can always charm one minion, and depend of the mob, I can charm the second too. So at boss room I do extremely nice damage with bot, 2xmob, nuke & shoot. So damage is not the problem at PvM.
PvP, well we can’t use most of ours PvM power’s at PvP.

Problem at high level camps are that you can’t do any Crow Controlling there. What shud been the Bureacrat main abilities or main job. But:
Calm don’t work.
Charms don’t work.
Stun don’t work
Fear don’t work.
Root, well they work sometimes.
But they go broken wary fast or mob warp you to near him so he can hit you again.

You can do some Crow Controlling, but you have to use jumping to building or other mob patching or item bugs. So only way to use CRAT MAIN POWER, CROW CONTROLLING AT HIHG LEVEL CAMP IS USE THE GAME BUGS? What a joke.

Just my 2 cent.

14.5 nerf the Outdoor crow controlling
14.6.1 nerf the indoor crow controlling