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Thread: Item Shop Discussion Forum

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    No. Simply, no.

    For me you guys have already gotten very close to the proverbial line with VP/token packs which can be sold for ingame credits.. not to mention the Dust Brigade helm which gives a huge advantage for low-level twinking.

    The minute I see stuff like implant sets (hey, you save time by not having to run across stores!), Ofab sets (you don't have to do battlestation lol I mean tower daily anymore, more time saved!), typed clumps (those LE missions are a huge timesink!), that's the minute I will give away all my stuff, delete my characters and leave AO altogether. And trust me I won't try TSW either if this hypothetical case were to become reality.

    While mer personally, one player, might not make much of a difference to you remember that it's always a few who complain/protest. Cherish those players, the few who complain do so because they cared in the first place. The much much much larger majority that's silent doesn't give a damn and will just cancel their accounts. Then again, we all know AO has a huge population so who cares.
    This x1000. The Item Shop broke AO for me on a very fundamental level because it was never just vanity items, and was never going to be just vanity items. If people are paying to avoid playing through content, there's something wrong with that content. I've drifted back now and then but a lot of my ingame friends also hit that break point with it's introduction and much of what drew me to the game has been hollowed out. In the balancing act of 'income up front with the loss of some players' vs 'income spread out and those players staying', well FC made its choice.
    I'm actually Ophiuchus // Cynic092 but Forum accounts are fickle, fleeting things...

    Are we there yet?

    Bombqueen.

  2. #42
    I'm not sure what was wrong with the old paid points system, it was not as invasive and integrity-breaching as the current shop browser yet it served/could have served the exact same purpose. I also still have nearly $30 worth of the now "phasefront points" which are useless to me since I already have my vehicles and I don't expect any new items or products to be added to that feature due to the current shop.


    Just also wanted to repost what Wrangeline said here;
    http://forums.anarchyonline.com/show...4&postcount=31

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Skill is what I see as the traditional pay-for-power, which is not something I'm interested in pursuing. I call it Skill because in an MMO, the endgame raid/content/whatever (should) be non-trivial. Buying the reward would be tantamount to players short-cutting the Skill element. Note that selling gear which is the equivalent of formerly endgame content rewards, that the current end-game players have had on farm status for years could arguably be Time depending on the specifics of the situation. For example, if it's an early hoop that players need to go through to get to the actual endgame via itemization and the RPG system. But I agree, this is an area where we as developers need to be mindful.
    im sorry, but you are mixing AO with some other game where actually IS a grear progression.
    as a healer and DD perspective, there isnt any non-solo pve content where gear has anything to do with completion diffuculty.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
    ---
    How much is enough?
    Member of Halinallet!

  4. #44
    What really pains me is that the first post of the new producer is ... on In Game Shop...
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
    Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
    220, 220, 200, 164, 150, 116, 110, 82, 70, 57, 40, 21 ...

  5. #45
    I disagree on the Time part. Selling xp stims is time, so is teleports, character boost, buff cans, or portable terminals, that's fine. However if low end leveling armors are so hard to get that you feel the need to fork in money for it, it's a design flaw that should be fixed instead.

    I'm talking for example about tier armor, you can't put them in the shop thinking it will sell well. It's a pain in the ass to collect and it won't feel any nicer to buy them. The contrary is also true, putting easily available stuff in the shop will feel like a rip off unless it cost cents.

    Otherwise, I'm still ok.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
    N E U T R A L I Z E R S

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    No. Simply, no.

    For me you guys have already gotten very close to the proverbial line with VP/token packs which can be sold for ingame credits.. not to mention the Dust Brigade helm which gives a huge advantage for low-level twinking.

    The minute I see stuff like implant sets (hey, you save time by not having to run across stores!), Ofab sets (you don't have to do battlestation lol I mean tower daily anymore, more time saved!), typed clumps (those LE missions are a huge timesink!), that's the minute I will give away all my stuff, delete my characters and leave AO altogether. And trust me I won't try TSW either if this hypothetical case were to become reality.

    While mer personally, one player, might not make much of a difference to you remember that it's always a few who complain/protest. Cherish those players, the few who complain do so because they cared in the first place. The much much much larger majority that's silent doesn't give a damn and will just cancel their accounts. Then again, we all know AO has a huge population so who cares.
    I agree. If you want to sell power/time, make two servers one without power/time items in store and pay to win server. So anyone can choose, where he wants to play.
    Dragocz RK1

  7. #47
    Please be very careful on how far you stretch this "selling time" principle. I fear you may be surprised at how many subscribers you'll lose if you start putting things in the item shop that players have historically had to work hard to get (for instance, tier as a leveling armor or HHAB as an item needed to participate in endgame content). And a lot of the sales might just displace current sales of token packs, which have much the same function, but support the in-game economy, and, because they have been around for a while, don't upset as many as adding new stuff would.

    When someone buys a token pack to re-sell, then uses the credits to buy gear from some other player, 3 players have benefited (the player who originally bought the token pack now has needed equipment, the player who uses credits to buy the token pack has tokens, and the player who sold his stuff to the first player has credits). It increases the velocity of in game currency. But if you just put whatever equipment the first player wanted in the item shop, only he benefits, and you potentially anger a lot of customers.

    Personally I wouldn't care about other players having the option of buying power (so long as there was nothing not achievable in-game for sale), except that AO isn't much fun with no one else in it, and this looks like it could hurt the in-game population.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    Please be very careful on how far you stretch this "selling time" principle. I fear you may be surprised at how many subscribers you'll lose if you start putting things in the item shop that players have historically had to work hard to get (for instance, tier as a leveling armor or HHAB as an item needed to participate in endgame content). And a lot of the sales might just displace current sales of token packs, which have much the same function, but support the in-game economy, and, because they have been around for a while, don't upset as many as adding new stuff would.

    When someone buys a token pack to re-sell, then uses the credits to buy gear from some other player, 3 players have benefited (the player who originally bought the token pack now has needed equipment, the player who uses credits to buy the token pack has tokens, and the player who sold his stuff to the first player has credits). It increases the velocity of in game currency. But if you just put whatever equipment the first player wanted in the item shop, only he benefits, and you potentially anger a lot of customers.

    Personally I wouldn't care about other players having the option of buying power (so long as there was nothing not achievable in-game for sale), except that AO isn't much fun with no one else in it, and this looks like it could hurt the in-game population.
    yes doing so will hurt the kids who sit at their parents house and do nothing but play video games and make them quit, some of us work for a living and cant afford to sit and play all day. The way ao is made we are penalized for having jobs, we cant spend days farming for items we need.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    yes doing so will hurt the kids who sit at their parents house and do nothing but play video games and make them quit, some of us work for a living and cant afford to sit and play all day. The way ao is made we are penalized for having jobs, we cant spend days farming for items we need.
    Then :

    1) dont play AO

    or

    2) accept you ll be subpar to people with more playtime.


    I ve chosen the 2nd.
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
    Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
    220, 220, 200, 164, 150, 116, 110, 82, 70, 57, 40, 21 ...

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    Then :

    1) dont play AO

    or

    2) accept you ll be subpar to people with more playtime.


    I ve chosen the 2nd.
    Why should we be forced to choose? Maybe they should adjust drop rates on ai bots so they are easier to get. Or add items to the shop we can buy that will help us out, we pay the same amount every month to play the game, just don't have the time to play like 90% of the people, why not allow us to spend our hard earned cash we earn on items we could use.

  11. #51
    This is why you see subscription models going down the drain everywhere. Those of us who helped make it a success are now no longer able to spend as much time on it as we once were. As a result the games will all get free, but far more expensive through micro transactions
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Jan 25th, 2012 at 17:23:36. Reason: p
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Why should we be forced to choose? Maybe they should adjust drop rates on ai bots so they are easier to get. Or add items to the shop we can buy that will help us out, we pay the same amount every month to play the game, just don't have the time to play like 90% of the people, why not allow us to spend our hard earned cash we earn on items we could use.
    Well, it's as if you asked for allowing drugs in sports competition ...

    "Others have more time to train than me, but there's no reason I should be less good... so .. I ve got cash, I can buy stuff to boost my capacity ?"


    I think not...
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
    Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
    220, 220, 200, 164, 150, 116, 110, 82, 70, 57, 40, 21 ...

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    Well, it's as if you asked for allowing drugs in sports competition ...

    "Others have more time to train than me, but there's no reason I should be less good... so .. I ve got cash, I can buy stuff to boost my capacity ?"


    I think not...
    Lol that isn't even a good comparison. First were talking about a video game, not RL sports. Second your example is about illegal drugs, which nothing about AO is illegal. They could add time based items like other games, say set of CC for 7 days is 500 PP, 30 days is like 1500PP permanent is like 3000PP, these are just examples not what i would say would be actual price. But this would help bring in the funds needed for the developers to work on their projects like the rebalance and engine. Either that or FC should start up a credit selling site and rake it in like the non legit ones probably do.

  14. #54
    cash shop purely for vanity items : YES

    cash shop that allows the line to be blurred between people who invest time in the game and those who don't/cannot : NO

    if as Gridpain posted... face the fact you cannot compete against someone that can invest more time in the game then you... damned people these days with their entitlement issues. It's like saying you should be paid the same as your co worker, even when he works twice as much as you.
    Freedom or death!
    Anything then being an Omni Tek Corporate slave!

    Created 2005-11-16 (paid main that's all mine )
    Created 2005-02-03 (froobie)
    Created 2007-10-11 (second paid account because i wanted a freaking shade :P)

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    They could add time based items like other games, say set of CC for 7 days is 500 PP, 30 days is like 1500PP permanent is like 3000PP, these are just examples not what i would say would be actual price. But this would help bring in the funds needed for the developers to work on their projects like the rebalance and engine. Either that or FC should start up a credit selling site and rake it in like the non legit ones probably do.
    The problem is, FC's revenue doesn't just increase by however much people spend buying temporary CC in the item shop. It would also go down by however much subscription revenue they lose when traditional MMO players cancel in response to putting CC in the item shop - and then again by however much subscription revenue is lost when players who otherwise wouldn't care quit because many of the players they knew left over the CC in the item shop. It's not a clear-cut financial gain for FC, at all. It could even decrease total revenue.

  16. #56
    Personally, I don't care about whether they add level boosts, buff cans, xp stims etc. as all that is just ... nonsensical time. It's the point of any MMO that noone really wants to spend ALL their time on. If I look back and think of all the hundreds and hundreds of hours I spent running around RK missions hoping to get a new lvl so I could add 5 points to my skill and in 500 more hours maybe use a new nano... then that time probably could've been spent better. Today, that kind of gameplay just doesn't sit well. We've seen a lot of things changed to make it less so, but it's such a core part of AO that it'll never quite go away, nevermind how much players are trying to sploit their way around it with OSTs, kiteteams and whatever else you might have now. So, XP stims, lvl boosts, go ahead. Less trouble that way. And we can get to the meat of the gam which is where the fun is at.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by omegahealer View Post
    cash shop purely for vanity items : YES

    cash shop that allows the line to be blurred between people who invest time in the game and those who don't/cannot : NO

    if as Gridpain posted... face the fact you cannot compete against someone that can invest more time in the game then you... damned people these days with their entitlement issues. It's like saying you should be paid the same as your co worker, even when he works twice as much as you.
    Does your co worker have the same exact title as you do? Or the same education and experience? There's a lot of things you have to factor in so if your going to use poor examples please think a bit more about them. As far as competing that's not an issue for some of us, even though we don't have the time doesn't mean we don't have characters that are setup, but to setup a new character we have to strip others.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    The problem is, FC's revenue doesn't just increase by however much people spend buying temporary CC in the item shop. It would also go down by however much subscription revenue they lose when traditional MMO players cancel in response to putting CC in the item shop - and then again by however much subscription revenue is lost when players who otherwise wouldn't care quit because many of the players they knew left over the CC in the item shop. It's not a clear-cut financial gain for FC, at all. It could even decrease total revenue.
    People threaten they will quit all the time but they wont, its just useless words. And even if people did quit it wouldn't be but a handful, and adding the items to the item shop would bring in new people or people who had quit before because of it being to difficult to obtain the items they needed/wanted. Plenty of people i know quit playing because they became bored trying to farm the items they needed in the little amount of time they had. I canceled 4 our of 6 accounts due to boredom, 2 are paid up for a year, it just gets way to boring trying to farm items every day with the 4 hours i have time to spend and not getting anything i need. Either change the drop rate so the items are easier to obtain or add them to the item shop.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    This is why you see subscription models going down the drain everywhere. Those of us who helped make it a success are now no longer able to spend as much time on it as we once were. As a result the games will all get free, but far more expensive through micro transactions
    qft

    I don't always agree with what masta says, but was thinking this while reading through the entire thread.

    adding my own thoughts, this leads to the concern that many older AO players have, which is: pick one or the other, having both sub+item shop seems like a transition. AOC currently (according to last quarter reports) is making money from subs and item shop at a 50/50 ratio with a rather large playerbase, while ao is like 15/50 with a small player base. will AO ever break that ratio and beat it? and really, the ratio is irrelevant because its dependent on population, so I'm not going to ask the obvious dumb question that has no smart answer, but instead ask the new Producer the more reasonable question- Will AO ever become fully free to play with itemshop? Not saying I would prefer this necessarily, but sub+itemshop isn't very attractive to new and old players alike, and gives a "teetering over the edge" feeling to subscribers. statistics and finance reports from other MMO's have proven the F2P+itemshop model is far more lucrative than any other model, as it attracts more players up front than any other model, and hence more itemshop sales. just curious about future plans regarding this in relation to AO.

    (*edit* was going to add that the sub+itemshop model that TSW will have (apparently) is the one element that worries me more than anything about a new game that I have been looking forward to. not really the right thread, let alone forum for this comment, but its relevant in that AO current follows this model, and its worrying from a gamer perspective.)
    Last edited by SoapTarder; Jan 25th, 2012 at 18:31:48.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    People threaten they will quit all the time but they wont,
    yeah, right .... look at the current population ...
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
    Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
    220, 220, 200, 164, 150, 116, 110, 82, 70, 57, 40, 21 ...

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    yeah, right .... look at the current population ...
    I don't think this is because of any threatened "i quit" threads, because if that were the case then there were only 100 players in the first place.

    No, I call time, as the only real reason for anything here.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

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