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Thread: Item Shop Discussion Forum

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    So it doesn't effect you then if SOMEONE ELSE buys items, its not going to effect the amount of people you have to play with, nobody said lets make every item in the game accessible from the item shop. If they made items like ai armor or other items that can be easily obtained solo then it would defiantly not have any effect on you.
    AO is MMO that means Massively Multiplayer Online. Everything you do affects others. That's not attitude, that's fact.
    Dragocz RK1

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragocze View Post
    AO is MMO that means Massively Multiplayer Online. Everything you do affects others. That's not attitude, that's fact.
    And a good thing about AO is that it is still rooted in the multiplayer aspect instead of just being a 3-in-1 game like most modern entries to the genre. Which is why selling actual items, rather than just convenience items to make certain aspects of the game less time consuming, is something it is very very sensitive to.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    And a good thing about AO is that it is still rooted in the multiplayer aspect instead of just being a 3-in-1 game like most modern entries to the genre. Which is why selling actual items, rather than just convenience items to make certain aspects of the game less time consuming, is something it is very very sensitive to.
    Here is a question. Is point in the game, when you have end game / planed equip, start of the game or end of the game?

    A) Start of the game - mostly pvp players
    You can start do pvp (actual game for pvp players) and be competitive.
    B) End of the game - mostly pvm players
    You have nothing to do, no pvm content (actual game for pvm players, called "grind" by pvp players) to play.

    So, is getting item from item shop helping or not? It depends how much you like pvp and pvm part of the game. Truth is that, items (not social) in item shop take away any accomplishment (mostly from pvm players) as Arguru said. Some players think that, they must have that item to have fun in the game, but it is their personal belief not a fact. If someone believe that, his subconscious won't allow him to have any fun in the game.
    Dragocz RK1

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragocze View Post
    Here is a question. Is point in the game, when you have end game / planed equip, start of the game or end of the game?

    A) Start of the game - mostly pvp players
    You can start do pvp (actual game for pvp players) and be competitive.
    B) End of the game - mostly pvm players
    You have nothing to do, no pvm content (actual game for pvm players, called "grind" by pvp players) to play.

    So, is getting item from item shop helping or not? It depends how much you like pvp and pvm part of the game. Truth is that, items (not social) in item shop take away any accomplishment (mostly from pvm players) as Arguru said. Some players think that, they must have that item to have fun in the game, but it is their personal belief not a fact. If someone believe that, his subconscious won't allow him to have any fun in the game.
    Personally my enjoyment of the game comes from playing with other players and working towards getting desired stuff. Doesn't matter if it's pvp or pvm, towers or raidloot. Playing MMOs alone becomes "grind" and boring extremely fast, which is why I still log on and do stuff in AO, and have all my other MMO subscriptions closed... if it was possible to buy anything in the game it would mean there's fewer people around to do things, because sologrind is what "pvp'ers" want more than they want a multiplayer game...
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    If they made items like ai armor or other items that can be easily obtained solo then it would defiantly not have any effect on you.
    The game company I work at makes its income through micro transactins, and I'm often astonished by how tremendous the gap between "paying" and "free" players is. Unless I'm willing to fork out, I'm nothing. I don't want AO to become THAT.

    I want that damn css to mean something. Right now it's a small, but an indication that you worked for it one way or another. Like it was with the Vindicator title before the implementation of AI dailies. I'm not saying daily missions are bad, just that they lessened its... i don't know, worth maybe. When you encountered someone with V-title, it meant that the person invested a lot of effort/time into gaining it.
    Now it means pretty much nothing.

    The same would happen to ai armor.
    Why don't you add intelligent/xan symbiants and albtraum items to the shop too while you're at it? I don't have time to team (no way) and farm it, so pls add. Don't forget EOE, because the drop rate is atrocious!


    Btw, telling the players that don't have enough time or money "Sucks to be you" is just up.
    Last edited by Anarrina; Jan 26th, 2012 at 15:13:58. Reason: removed obscenities

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Sungrave View Post
    The game company I work at makes its income through micro transactins, and I'm often astonished by how tremendous the gap between "paying" and "free" players is. Unless I'm willing to fork out, I'm nothing. I don't want AO to become THAT.
    Like i said, only items that should be in the item shop can be obtained in game. So you would have the choice to farm them or buy them, either way you will be able to get the items just one way is faster.

    As for the other posters, how does random people buying stuff effect you, how often do you team with random people? Not very often i bet. And if armor etc was added to the shop it would make people more available to team with you due to the fact they wont have to farm non stop to get the items they need, instead they will be freed up to go team for stuff like beast or lox or what ever. Seriously how many city raids have you done and invited random people off lft, or been on lft lately for city raids?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Like i said, only items that should be in the item shop can be obtained in game. So you would have the choice to farm them or buy them, either way you will be able to get the items just one way is faster.

    As for the other posters, how does random people buying stuff effect you, how often do you team with random people? Not very often i bet. And if armor etc was added to the shop it would make people more available to team with you due to the fact they wont have to farm non stop to get the items they need, instead they will be freed up to go team for stuff like beast or lox or what ever. Seriously how many city raids have you done and invited random people off lft, or been on lft lately for city raids?
    I think you have lost touch with things somehow.. if you've been playing since Beta or Release I can understand how that's possible.

    I have been teaming with people on a daily basis, doing raids and random other encounters.. that is what I find fun about the game. If not for playing with other people, I could find a much better game to play that is single-player on my PC.

    You keep asking how random people buying stuff effects others and I keep telling you how.. and you have yet to really respond to my comments.

    If people are buying items from an items shop and therefore not doing the content, what type of effect do you think that has on those of us that do the content? Do you not see how that would lessen the pool of players and thus result in a less fun experience for those that came to a MMO to actually team? I mean, it is not unreasonable that I (and many others) play AO for the team aspect as opposed to just solo/triple-log through the game. In fact, I would say that it is more reasonable to expect to have players that come to a game to play with others than to have people that play a MMO just to solo.

    Feel free to respond or stop asking the same tired question.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jan 26th, 2012 at 17:35:31.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    As for the other posters, how does random people buying stuff effect you, how often do you team with random people?
    I answered this question in my last post, and others have answered this question as well quite thoroughly. Is it possible comprehension is a factor? saying "yes, I comprehend what people are saying" won't convince anyone at this point.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    I answered this question in my last post, and others have answered this question as well quite thoroughly. Is it possible comprehension is a factor? saying "yes, I comprehend what people are saying" won't convince anyone at this point.
    I gave specific instances of what i was saying, how often do you team for city raids? I know i never do i just solo them just like 90% of everything in the game. If i team with people for other things its always friends or org m8s i hardly ever look for random people on lft except for inferno missions which is just to fill the team but isn't necessary. If people didn't have to farm for items they needed non stop then people would be more available to team.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    I think you have lost touch with things somehow.. if you've been playing since Beta or Release I can understand how that's possible.

    I have been teaming with people on a daily basis, doing raids and random other encounters.. that is what I find fun about the game. If not for playing with other people, I could find a much better game to play that is single-player on my PC.

    You keep asking how random people buying stuff effects others and I keep telling you how.. and you have yet to really respond to my comments.

    If people are buying items from an items shop and therefore not doing the content, what type of effect do you think that has on those of us that do the content? Do you not see how that would lessen the pool of players and thus result in a less fun experience for those that came to a MMO to actually team? I mean, it is not unreasonable that I (and many others) play AO for the team aspect as opposed to just solo/triple-log through the game. In fact, I would say that it is more reasonable to expect to have players that come to a game to play with others than to have people that play a MMO just to solo.

    Feel free to respond or stop asking the same tired question.
    Once again you fail to read, i said before that not everything should be obtainable from the item shop but you seem to think every item in the game will be and then you wont have anyone left to play with, get some friends in the game or more org members then you don't have to worry about it. Freeing up people from having to farm all day every day to get some items will make them more available to team with you. Instead of me farming city raids solo all day i could be out doing org beast raids or lox runs, helping other people with stuff. But instead of doing raids or helping friends im forced to farm non stop every chance i get for items.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    If people didn't have to farm for items they needed non stop then people would be more available to team.

    If people didn't have to farm for items they needed, then what would they be teaming up to do?

    And just because a decent experienced toon can solo ai generals doesn't mean that everyone in the game can. I know most newer people struggle with the right combo for ai gens and some people do actually farm gens in S10 as a team because those aren't really that solo friendly (and the s10 gens drop lead bots).

    And where does the item addition end? They've already practically put in Ofab armor (in the form of VP) and you see how great of an effect that's had on the game. How about pande drops like zod loot? I mean, I can solo zods with my doc so should they throw those items in as well? How about reactive armor? I can solo that too? HHAB's? I can solo xark/razor.. might as well throw that in? All of the inferno dyna loot.. heck all of the SL dyna loot is solo farmable.. so that should be added too? Where's your line in the sand for what is 'ok to add' and what isn't?

    The game is about more than what 1 person can do.. I think you are missing that point.

    Instead of asking Funcom to fix the game issues, you're saying "just sell me the loot". That's almost laughable. I don't want them to sell me the loot.. I want them to change the way the game is not-working for the majority of players...not make it so that I don't have to team which, for me, means they're changing it so that I don't have to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Once again you fail to read, i said before that not everything should be obtainable from the item shop but you seem to think every item in the game will be and then you wont have anyone left to play with, get some friends in the game or more org members then you don't have to worry about it. Freeing up people from having to farm all day every day to get some items will make them more available to team with you. Instead of me farming city raids solo all day i could be out doing org beast raids or lox runs, helping other people with stuff. But instead of doing raids or helping friends im forced to farm non stop every chance i get for items.
    lol seriously did you just tell me to get more friends or orgmembers? Not even sure how to respond to that. Yes, you're right. I just play alone in my 2 person org. I'll learn to be more social. /sarcasm off On a serious note, I'm one of the more active people on the server in terms of putting together teams/raids both in my org and publicly.. so try again with your really bad assumptions.

    And didn't you say you've been playing since release.. what exactly are you farming that's taking so much time? I've only been playing since 2004.. and tbh, I am hard pressed to find a single item that I have to farm and if I want something I can just buy it. I could understand someone new with this farming complaint, but not someone that claims to be a vet of the game.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jan 26th, 2012 at 17:57:36.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    If people didn't have to farm for items they needed, then what would they be teaming up to do?

    And just because a decent experienced toon can solo ai generals doesn't mean that everyone in the game can. I know most newer people struggle with the right combo for ai gens and some people do actually farm gens in S10 as a team because those aren't really that solo friendly (and the s10 gens drop lead bots).

    And where does the item addition end? They've already practically put in Ofab armor (in the form of VP) and you see how great of an effect that's had on the game. How about pande drops like zod loot? I mean, I can solo zods with my doc so should they throw those items in as well? How about reactive armor? I can solo that too? HHAB's? I can solo xark/razor.. might as well throw that in? All of the inferno dyna loot.. heck all of the SL dyna loot is solo farmable.. so that should be added too? Where's your line in the sand for what is 'ok to add' and what isn't?

    The game is about more than what 1 person can do.. I think you are missing that point.

    Instead of asking Funcom to fix the game issues, you're saying "just sell me the loot". That's almost laughable. I don't want them to sell me the loot.. I want them to change the way the game is not-working for the majority of players...not make it so that I don't have to team which, for me, means they're changing it so that I don't have to play.



    lol seriously did you just tell me to get more friends or orgmembers? Not even sure how to respond to that. Yes, you're right. I just play alone in my 2 person org. I'll learn to be more social. /sarcasm off On a serious note, I'm one of the more active people on the server in terms of putting together teams/raids both in my org and publicly.. so try again with your really bad assumptions.

    And didn't you say you've been playing since release.. what exactly are you farming that's taking so much time? I've only been playing since 2004.. and tbh, I am hard pressed to find a single item that I have to farm and if I want something I can just buy it. I could understand someone new with this farming complaint, but not someone that claims to be a vet of the game.
    If you are in such a big org and have so many friends then why would you have a hard time finding people to team with? As far as my comments you still don't seem to get it, Let me put it like this, I have a choice to spend 4 hours a day doing city raids for months till i get enough items or credits to make a set of armor, which means i wont be teaming with anyone else till thats done. Or instead of doing that i can just buy some PP and get the items and be done with the endless city raids and go team with some friends and do something. And yes i have been playing since release, last time i took a break for a bit i gave all my stuff away to friends, so when i came back to the game i had to start all over.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Once again you fail to read, i said before that not everything should be obtainable from the item shop but you seem to think every item in the game will be and then you wont have anyone left to play with, get some friends in the game or more org members then you don't have to worry about it. Freeing up people from having to farm all day every day to get some items will make them more available to team with you. Instead of me farming city raids solo all day i could be out doing org beast raids or lox runs, helping other people with stuff. But instead of doing raids or helping friends im forced to farm non stop every chance i get for items.
    see, that's the cross-roads of the argument.

    Poor design (low drop rate, everything has to be farmed excessively leading to farmers selling to players, poor levelling design via low xp rates, and so on...) is likely a good reason for a lot of people quitting over the years. actually, from those I have known ingame who are gone, that is generally the prime reason, so its not necessarily speculation on my part.

    if the poor designs were fixed, (higher drop rates, more variety of gear that isn't shop fodder, more social stuff dropping off everything, much better xp gains in RK etc..) so that people were rewarded more often, would that not mend the original problem and increase playerbase?

    the other solution is to add fixes via the itemshop in the form of "time savers." the whole argument boils down to this:

    - Will the itemshop solution keep new players playing, and lure back old players?
    - Will the itemshop buyable "stuff" give the same "mental" reward to players as earning it?
    - Will the itemshop buyable "stuff" discourage those that want to earn their way?
    - Will new players be eager to subscribe to a game that already has an itemshop, that sells items that are clearly designed as a bandaid to poor design, or will they stay froob?


    these questions are rhetorical, so not really meant for anyone to try to answer unless they have hard statistics proving one way or the other.

    but, its clear. fixing the problems that cause people to get bored and leave is a long term investment with no upfront benefit. whereas, adding fixes to the itemshop is a short term money generator. What scares me, and likely others, is that long-term wise, its a dangerous move with an unforeseeable outcome.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  14. #114
    Please stop feeding a troll who joined in 2010 yet claims to have several 220 (either e-bayed or superuser from FC).

    On second thought I suspect that this troll is undercover FC developer who tries to convince us what a wonderfull idea is selling everything in ingame shop.

    If I am wrong then at least read my sig
    Awikun 220/70/30 Ranged adv - my Main that I hardly ever log
    Awisha 220/70/30 Shade - Can solo 95% of all bosses
    Cratawi 200/70/30 Crat - S7/DR Solo farmer
    Awiken 220/70/30 Eng - Pvm Eng
    Nukiwa 200/70/30 NT - almost forgotten (awaiting retwink)
    Awidoc 200/70/30 Doc - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awix 200/70/30 Fix - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awienf 220/70/30 Enf - tanked every single boss (and still lives)
    Soldawi 220/70/30 Sol - Pvm Sold
    Awima 150/xx/xx Ma - best S10 MA farmer
    Doctorawi 220/70/30 - Pvm Doc
    Awienfo 200/70/30 - Atrox with Pande red belt and 2xQL300 hammers
    Macierewicz 220/70/30 - Pvm Crat
    Zlakobieta 220/70/30 - max complit +top tradeskiller

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Awikun View Post
    Please stop feeding a troll who joined in 2010 yet claims to have several 220 (either e-bayed or superuser from FC).

    On second thought I suspect that this troll is undercover FC developer who tries to convince us what a wonderfull idea is selling everything in ingame shop.

    If I am wrong then at least read my sig
    lol good point
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Awikun View Post
    Please stop feeding a troll who joined in 2010 yet claims to have several 220 (either e-bayed or superuser from FC).

    On second thought I suspect that this troll is undercover FC developer who tries to convince us what a wonderfull idea is selling everything in ingame shop.

    If I am wrong then at least read my sig
    this has been in the back of my mind the whole time. I have doubts as no dev would be that cowardly to pose as a troll instead of just discussing something. either way, devs do read the forums, and all discussions, even if they are spurred on by trolls, help to get the devs brain juices flowing. although, sometimes it seems the discussion does nothing to help and bad decisions still get made from time to time.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  17. #117

    Funcom employee

    We have pretty staunch anti-sock-pupperty internal regulations/rules, so I can assure you that any opinions posted here by FC-employed individuals will be posted under FC accounts. We can let you guys speak for yourselves, and let... er... ourselves speak for ourselves. So I promise you, anything posted in here without a blue name/background is not from a Funcom employee. =)
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  18. #118
    but, my monitor is black and white!





    j/k
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Awikun View Post
    Please stop feeding a troll who joined in 2010 yet claims to have several 220 (either e-bayed or superuser from FC).

    On second thought I suspect that this troll is undercover FC developer who tries to convince us what a wonderfull idea is selling everything in ingame shop.

    If I am wrong then at least read my sig
    Neither E-bayed or from FC, nor a troll. I make a valid point but people cant seem to get it. You talk about not having people to team with if items were added to the items shop but how many times have you teamed with someone on a city raid except for a city daily in the last few years? How many lox teams do you see running? Or people on lft for these? I rarely see anyone on lft for city raids, and as for Lox its always people teaming with the same people and not inviting off lft. Most people don't invite off lft for beast either, its always a select group doing beast for what they want or to sell loot. For leveling well that's easy, pocket teams with org or friends in it from 1 to 200 easily, 200-220 is mainly org m8s or dual logging and getting a couple randoms to fill the team. So right now as it stands the amount of teaming without people you know or people from org is almost non existent, for everything high level there are raid bots.

  20. #120
    part of the problem, is that people feel they are entitled to something just for showing up.

    In three scenarios I can recall, I invited randoms into a city raid that were "just there to get their daily." I always specify that i have dibs on loot when inviting randoms. most of the time if something dropped they needed, I let them have it. on three occasions, when bots dropped, I actually got cussed out for not rolling it. I'm sorry, but we had a deal.

    People want to be rewarded for their participation. its part of video games and theres no going back. but, part of the problem with AO, is that reward = effort / number of players in team or raid. if drop rates were rolled seperately for each person, and the loot was unique to each player (ie - a loot window opens for each player that is unique to them) as well as xp going up as team grew bigger, then there would be no penalties for teaming. no amount of item shop fixes will change this problem as it currently sits. it will just allow the willing to circumvent it, and deny those who "earned" their reward first hand the satisfaction of accomplishment, unless of course the effort is drastically reduced to compete fairly with a potential itemshop purchase.
    Last edited by SoapTarder; Jan 26th, 2012 at 19:23:35.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

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