Capped PvP damage vs uncapped Self heals

[___________Illuvatar]

As of trying to duel a level 160 doc in arena, one thing strikes me. He can't be killed 1 on 1. I'm not usually the whining guy, and I don't cry because I lose a duel (actually, I haven't yet, so I wouldn't know), but it's totally impossible to kill him. No matter what nuke I use, I hit him for about 1100 damage. I assume that's fairly close to min damage, while it hits his 40% cap. As long as he can use Lifegiving elixir, he gets healed for 1000-1200 usually, and we're back to scratch. If I am lucky enough to get in two hits before he heals, he uses Complete Heal, and is back to 100% again. We would pretty much go on forever like this, since I root him out of his range, and he heals away my nukes.

I would assume this was a glitch when they introduced the new PvP caps. Could be it was intentional to make docs the most uber PvP class, but it doesn't seem logical to me.

[_______________Esmee]

what am i doing wrong?
almost any soldier near my level can kill me in seconds. i am 158 now.
hmm could that mean that every class can't kill everyone else. i doubt that, no nts have to be able to kill everyone apparently. and how is he killing you can i ask? complete heal uses 1400 nano. if you can use that in a fight then you haven't gotten off 2 dots and a debuff you might be able to get it in once in a long fight with HE and nano stim..but i really do not get the thing about heals because there are plenty of people that kill me in pvp damn i must either suck or the whining is greatly exaggerated.... probably both.

[_______________Chill]

I never had any trouble killing docs with my dual el diablos soldier : there's no way they could heal faster than 500 dmg per second. I got 30 wins in a row vs all classes with the new pvp rules thanks to those babies
Fast decent damage dmg is the way to go in pvp vs healers (try your fastest cast around 500 pvp dmg nukes if they exist, anyway anything that won't make you waste nano with the 40% cap rule).

Btw Illuvatar, didn't you use to be omni in your early days?
I think we hunted together a few times at nw mines in lush
My soldier was Shotgungirl (I deleted her at lvl94, I got bored and started a new character).

[_______________Garzu]

I can see NO reason why it should be impossible for NT to kill Docs, ok, maybe it is supposed to be hard, but not impossible.

[________________Ming]

Here's how you kill a doc with an NT:

Take your NT to a PvP area, and sit him out in plain sight. Wait. When a doc comes along and see's the easy meat, you root him, and then shout to all your friends "NOW!!!" Then they all open up on him at the same time. Time it just right with your NT and you should be able to get the killing shot in.

Otherwise I know no way an NT can kill a good doc.

[______________Frodur]

I still don't get it....
I totaly agree with Esmee, equal lvl oponent of any given profession will most likely kill a DOC. A heal also take time to cast, not only nukes.
And complete healing, ROLF.......u must be kidding!!!!!!!!!
That doc casting it....well i don't cnow where he gets his nano from....and if he uses it to heal of 2 x 1100 nukes he must be stupid! And i have to say u can't be clever in PvP if he can cast his best heals.....lol.....have u heard of ur debuffnukes Illuvatar?????

A doc casting his/her best dot's drain abouth 2600 nano!!!!!
That leaves the doc with about 4-6 heals for an average of 900, and get of a nanostim for 3 heals more. And if we are lucky we get of a hot before the fight starts so we fight with full nanopool, if we cast it in fight it drains about 600-700 nano.

BUT gues WHAT!!!! thats the only def-skill we have in PvP, we have blue evades, we have blue wpn skills (we can never hit as hard as a wpn profession even with same qlty gun).

And if we should pvp with our given abilities dot's and nukes, doc's would be beaten easy by most other professions.
So when NT's cry for heal-cap on doc's, then a doc's should have the nanocost of dot's, nukes and heals more then halfed and more def-buffs....so we have more stayingpower, and don't have to stand there healing all the time....and not get a singel shot off!
**** when i get jumped in pvp, and my hp drops in 1 sec due to spesials or crits i get to bussy healing and getting away i don't even got time to get my dot's off.

DOC's in PvP, now to do PvP at all, a doc have to pick up a gun, and put a ****load of ip into it and tune theyr wpn skills.
Why should not nt's have to do the same??

Problem as i see it after 13.0 is that nt's and nanobreeds are left with way to low hp bec of the dmg output they have compared to the dmg they deal (also due to the serius rangenerf).
A god way to balance this out is to give nanobreeds better hp.

And yes there are some great doc's out there in PvP, but darn i don't see many of them.
And remember that some ppl have a 1000board, that board adds a ****load to hp, nano, def ++....
A Novice doc on RK-1 is 1 of them.

[___________Illuvatar]

Originally posted by Garzu
I can see NO reason why it should be impossible for NT to kill Docs, ok, maybe it is supposed to be hard, but not impossible.

Nothing is impossible, sorry for the exaggeration. Point is a doc is supposed to be health personel, not a bad ass fighting mofo. It's a roleplaying game, the characters profession should be somewhat adapted to the profession they have chosen. Could I kill an equal level doc? I dont know, omnis doesn't have any. I tried arena vs Stitchngs, 160ish doc with Shotgun, I couldn't take him, but then again, I can't use my range in arena.

[___________Illuvatar]

Originally posted by Danae
I never had any trouble killing docs with my dual el diablos soldier : there's no way they could heal faster than 500 dmg per second. I got 30 wins in a row vs all classes with the new pvp rules thanks to those babies
Fast decent damage dmg is the way to go in pvp vs healers (try your fastest cast around 500 pvp dmg nukes if they exist, anyway anything that won't make you waste nano with the 40% cap rule).

Btw Illuvatar, didn't you use to be omni in your early days?
I think we hunted together a few times at nw mines in lush
My soldier was Shotgungirl (I deleted her at lvl94, I got bored and started a new character).

Hey, yeah I remember you, sadly Omni side at Rk2 isn't very impressive. I had a few issues with a couple of the members in the only Omni guild worth being in ( no offence to the others ), and was sick of hanging around in trade to get a team once in the week, so I went clan. Actually liking it pretty good

drop me a tell online some time

[________________Ming]

I totaly agree with Esmee, equal lvl oponent of any given profession will most likely kill a DOC. A heal also take time to cast, not only nukes.

Not true. Not at all. Not even close. Docs are taking out enforcers now. It's all a matter of equipment and weapon. A doc with a shotgun does insane damage as well as his healing, dotting, and slowing capability. I mean insane damage. More than an NT can do certainly. As much as any soldier. VS an MA with his minimum damage fists? hehe, no contest. MA docs are total crap in PvP, btw. Shotguns are where its at.

Plus take into consideration the level you're talking about. At level 110 or so a doc can put on a QL 180 maybe even 200 gun that crits for 1200 very consistently.

Am i saying docs are overpowered? Not at all. I'm saying there are things people can do to almost any class that make them super PvP gods. I want an IP reallocation so I can max out hammer and shotgun on all of my characters. Nuff said.

[_______________Esmee]

shotguns are nice weapons no doubt. no arguement there.
however, i have said it before and will say it again and again that heals are good but i have no chance against some classes like soliders and mps probably engineers but i have mostly fought and lost to soldiers. a soldier my level is *impossible* to kill for me with mk shield. an ma can get me or an agent just depending on who has better timing and luck and strategy. to cry for things to be nerfed i think is just stupid. especially since it is the ONLY thing that doctors have in pvp. i am not killing anyone quickly. the only time i can kill anyone is when i can heal myself up and then possibly whittle down their hps with dots and the slow line that docs have. like frodur did mention, good dots and debuff use up most of the nano pool.
Debuffs are used successfully by some people i have fought..i really don't see what the fuss is about except that people ***** when they don't get an easy kill.
i don't automatically assume that every soldier i fight is using the double mk exploit, they are just not a class that will be easy for me..a doctor to beat is all.

[_______________Garzu]

Well, to be honest, i dont want to nerf heals, all i want is to play by the same rules. One nuke in PvM does 1300-2400, while in PvP it is halved, but healing is the same both places, of course this is unbalancing, nothing to argue about. But i see only 2 possible solutions, 1. make dmg normal in PvP again, or 2. make healing 50% too.

And yoiu all have to remember, we got the 50% dmg in PvP becuase of whining, and we got nerfed, so i dont see any reason at all why the rules are changed for dmg, and not for healing.

Best solution would be to cap specials to 40%, not normal attacks, the whining was about instakills, which i agree is no fun.

[______________Frodur]

Hehe, yes we can wield a +170 shotgun at lvl 110. And yes we can maybe beat an enforcer at equal lvl, lets say 110.
But at higer lvl's an enforcer with q200 beam that he can put on by him self crits lots for 1,5k +, yes i've been hit that hard by a lvl 140 enforcer and died to him.
And btw all my def-skills are maxed + feet plants q200.

So what if we wield an q200 shotgun, still we cant hit as hard as an Trader or soldier who can rise their skills way above a doc.
It's not only the qlty of the gun that deside how hard we hit.
All we do is hope for a crit on our guns, and ppl with high duck-exp have less chanse of getting hit, as the crits are a combination of a doc's att points/skill and the oponents duck-exp skills.

And to Garzu, i agree a bit with u, most castingprofessions should have their dmg spells "redone" for pvp. What i mean is, the 50% cap was not god for dmg-spells, maybe 60-70% would be better.

But as i've said before, maybe higer hp, and also nanopool on nanobreeds would balance this out.

And taking out 50% dmg cap will still make some professions instakill with in pvp.
So would NT's...

[___________Illuvatar]

At level 110 I'm quite certain you have more than 1,5k HP.

Never the less, I agree with Garzu here. Specials should ofcourse be capped, not normal crits. But they also need to fix the crits buffs. UVC pretty much makes you crit on 8 of 10 shots, that also makes it a big unbalanced.

[Mysticknight]

Doc's are supposed to be just group healers???????????
With how they changed agro Docs have to become good tanks now. at lvl 75 my doc gets owned in PVP 2 hits kills him.
ok if damage is supposed to be 40% how the hell does he die in 2 hits.didnt even have time to get 1 cast in.

[________________Ming]

Alpha strike. FA 40% Burst 40% Fling 40% 120%=dead.

[_____________stergir]

CAREFUL WHAT U SAY MING!

Before u know it they'll nerf the alpha strike! Somebody over at funcom will decide that soldiers can't switch weapons in the middle of a fight.

[____________eleetist]

All I can say is I see some of the other higher level players making a great point... only do 50% damage on specials... and honestly I don't think there should be a 40% hp cap... Either that or just up everyone's hit points in much the same way as mobs were increased. by limitting damage Funcom effectively boosted heals.... actually if FC returns damage to normal and ups hit points... the two things will happen... people will both be able to have longer PvP fights and mobs won't be friggin' impossible to solo!!! Just think about that.

Right now it seems like hp = 3* Body Dev + 30.... or something close to that... just make it 5* Body Dev + 30.... that would make things interesting...

[______________Frodur]

Well then....half heals and i have to agree with this post by "Necessity"

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Well, I'm starting to see everyones points after losing my freshman title and getting horribly owned in pvp today.

I also would like to move for mk to work 1/2 as long and only deflect %50 of damage. I'd also like agents to shoot 1/2 as far, roots to last 1/2 as long, and debuffs to lower %50 as much skill. All polital areas should then immediatly be changed to %12.5. Ma's crit buffs should immediatly be lowered to %50 of the pertentage they raise. Fixers should run 1/2 as fast and crats should ... umm.. have...err..ok.

/me dunks docs into the nerf pool and sits high and proud with the NT's and Agents.


__________________
Commander Del 'Necessity' Orbin
OpForce - www.opfor.i8.com
Combat Medic - You can have your pillowfights.

[______________Frodur]

Originally posted by Illuvatar


Nothing is impossible, sorry for the exaggeration. Point is a doc is supposed to be health personel, not a bad ass fighting mofo. It's a roleplaying game, the characters profession should be somewhat adapted to the profession they have chosen.

Ohhh, where is it stated that we should not be able to be a fighter?
We got pretty nerfed 2 u know, our dot's is also halfed and they still take same amount of nano to cast.
we have blue wpn skills, blue evades and have no def-abilities but our heals and hot's.
Thats the only thing that keeps us in pvp atm.