Friday with(out) Means - Sept. 30th, 2011: More Pictures? More Pictures.

[Kazador]

Water looks fine to me, it could be better (more sun/building reflection), but ok..

The only thing that bothers me, is the sky.. it looks the same as in old engine. I think the sky is one of the most important graphic textures to create a good atmosphere in games. Especially in game like Anarchy Online.

But overall I'm satisfied with the progress, so keep up the good work.

[playboyfixer]

right on the spot kaz reflections is what would make the water perfect

[XenonDe]

Oh, someone pressed on the ambient occlusion button
The radius seems to be a tad too big though.

^^^
Read and adjust according to Vhab's post please. The shadows are a bit too soft.
Could also work some on the shader for the water, it's not looking bad but it's really more fitting for a deep river or sea.
Is the Tir Water a river? I always considered it not being that deep and not having many waves. Should look either more clear and reflecting more or more muddy if that's the intented look.

Water in the "old new engine" looked better, even if not being more realistic.
Edit: Water also doesn't match the sky. Gray sky and blue water makes it look unrealistic.

[Keldros]

more pictures, that's all it'll ever be, is pictures...

3 more years. The numbers don't lie.

[Edta]

I might not know what I'm talking about and I do feel a bit guilty about starting this whining. But I do know that when I see water reflections either in RL or in games (such as that old new engine video), I can just stare at them with my mouth open going "oooooh!". I hoped for such a feeling when water reflections would be showed in the new engine but I'm not getting it .
Maybe Tir is just a bad location for showoff? Maybe it would look much better when seen in motion? I hope both.
Tir water is supposed to be toxic. I wouldn't expect such a grayness as in the second picture, but since I don't know more about this toxicity it could be anything I suppose.
Tir water still is toxic right? I seem to remember somebody saying something about an event where players were cleaning it, but I'm not sure and the only thing I could find in the timeline was Tir water becoming toxic.

[Rktim]

Hmmm water could use rolling waves where it hits the shore.. I'm fairly sure AoC has that.. It makes for a much smoother transition. And this is something AO really needs because all water lines are sharp long lines in different angles.

[DocJones]

I might not know what I'm talking about and I do feel a bit guilty about starting this whining.

Don't feel guilty about that, EDTA. I felt the very same as i looked at them. But then again, i bet i am locked out from the new engine thingy (WINE ftw) making me resistant against all this shiney stuffs

[Shareida]

Tir water was toxic.

Fixed that for you.

I suggest you visiting Tir City and checking on it.

[Alternity]

Hands up if you ever died in Tir sewer water back in the day!

[Kazador]

I just found this video of new engine preview on YT (from anniversary meeting in Montreal), check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw0OJMiN5mU

I'm suprised, water looks soooooooo much better in motion. I'm sure it will look twice as good, when they finish it.

[Chrys]

FRIDAY WITH VAPORWARE STATUS UPDATE

You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time

[Mastablasta]

It's nice to see progress & I'm looking forward to next week's patch, but I've got to admit I like these screenies from the erm... "old new engine" more: http://www.athenpaladins.org/aonewengine/index.html

How long until it looks like that?... If ever?

If you look at that video and those images, you can see that most of what makes it look good is smoke and mirrors. Besides the incredible sparkliness of the water, the reflections are too perfect and unrealistic, and it's in general very low-res and looks like a viscous clear gel I don't know if you live in a desert, but large bodies of water just don't work like that except if there's no movement at all in it. The skies are just background images, you can see how it warps on the camelot castle one, and not a dynamic weather based system ,and the general swift cuts of everything gives you just brief looks here and there of a couple locations. Also no new textures or anything.
The Tir in the new screenshots is far more impressive than that one, it just doesn't have a nicely painted skybox to make it look like it's more than it seems.

[Neon_1]

It's nice to see progress & I'm looking forward to next week's patch, but I've got to admit I like these screenies from the erm... "old new engine" more: http://www.athenpaladins.org/aonewengine/index.html

How long until it looks like that?... If ever?

Prolly never. Those old pics look 1000 times better than these new ones. Those old pics actually would make the game look up to date as FC standards ( == around 2006), but these new ones are kinda horrible. Blurred pics from 2002 or so. If those pictures represent any current state of engine, we still have at least 3+ years to go....

Exactly. I think its cute that you guys have so much hope for seeing some changes any time soon.

QFTW

Sigh another worthless FWOM with no progress in sight. I'm pretty sure those Tir shots were taken many months ago. I'm pretty sure Funcom has pulled everyone but Means and Kintaii off AO to work on the Secret World.

Feels increadibly common that friday with Means starts with "Means is not here" and ends with roughly the same screenshots of Tir that has been shown for years now.

Yeah. Its not about progress or plans anymore, its just new head-pics or pics from Tir. If they havent finished even Tir in 4 years, how long will they take to finish the rest ? =P

The Tir in the new screenshots is far more impressive than that one, it just doesn't have a nicely painted skybox to make it look like it's more than it seems.

What has happened to you Masta ? You used to be kinda good troll back in the days, not licking up anybodys bottom, like you do FC:s now. Those pics are horrible, how can you possibly see that those look better than the old pictures linked here ?? Of course if you like blurred 4:3 resolution images with almost no single distinguishing detail, then its better. Otherwise its lightyears setback from those oldies. I know that we havent seen much of the actual video, and it is hard to judge what will it be like when it goes live. Also, those images prolly have many "shinies" set off, like Dagget mentioned. But if you just post pics here saying "hey, there are NEW pics from engine", then many people will expect to see something new and shiny compared to the ones we have already seen.

[Mastablasta]

What has happened to you Masta ? You used to be kinda good troll back in the days, not licking up anybodys bottom, like you do FC:s now. Those pics are horrible, how can you possibly see that those look better than the old pictures linked here ?? Of course if you like blurred 4:3 resolution images with almost no single distinguishing detail, then its better. Otherwise its lightyears setback from those oldies. I know that we havent seen much of the actual video, and it is hard to judge what will it be like when it goes live. Also, those images prolly have many "shinies" set off, like Dagget mentioned. But if you just post pics here saying "hey, there are NEW pics from engine", then many people will expect to see something new and shiny compared to the ones we have already seen.

Look up the definition of internet troll, and you'll see that from your perspective I probably make quite an excellent one still

How I can say they look better than those old ones? Like I said, the old ones used smoke and mirrors to achieve an effect. The skies you see in those images are static backgrounds. That means they'll never change. The shadows do not line up properly with what casts them, and they're far too hard. And in general, the old screenshots are just the exact same graphics that we have now, only with shadows and reflective water, an effect you can already have if you turn on "offscreen surface technology" and suffer rendering the game at 50% the set resolution. 4:3 resolution, what does that matter? It's a superior aspect ratio to 16:9 if that's what you're getting at.
The old ones do not include high quality buildings. There's no "blur" other than what you see now, because of the low-quality textures that scale down at a distance, and surfaces that aren't under the influence of Anisotropic Filtering. Look at the old Ogre screenshots, you'll see that there's just as much, and more, blur going on there. But you have to find the ones that do not showcase it, because they were quite careful not to display surfaces at the general viewing angle that causes the blurriness.
You'll also see plenty of the hoaky oldschool distance fog, which is far more subtle in the Dreamworld engine.
And details? What details, exactly? AO geometry consists almost entirely of large square surfaces. You can see all the ones present in those areas. Could they have chosen a better location to take the shots of Tir from? Possibly. I'd have gone with an upper far corner to catch the entire city.

And you do see something new and shiny; the water reflections, which have not been featured before. If you don't like them looking like a wavy mirror, that's your preference. I personally prefer a more subtle water reflection but perhaps that comes from having always lived no more than a stone's throw from at least one large body of water.

IMO AO looks fine to me the way it is. I'm more annoyed by technical difficulties, like the problem with the lighting, where suddenly the whole scene is lit and all other lightsources disappear in the glare, and then when you turn the camera 2 degrees it goes back to the proper lighting. And the fact that you can't run AO at 2560x1440 is also quite annoying. Having to run in a smaller window with 512 pixels of stuff peeking out at the sides is annoying.
My wishlist for AO graphics update is a longer viewdistance for everything, including ground high quality textures, ability to run at high resolutions and a constant lighting model. The rest doesn't bother me. Getting upgraded characters and stuff, that's just bonus.

[seithan]

Ive been hearing about the new engine since 2007, thats close to 5 years now.. I just returned to the game and i didnt come back for the shiny graphics.

The game is old and the graphics are just "iconic" for the current standarts but i doubt anyone plays the game for the graphics.

Its the community and the gameplay



*squizes the eyes and picks a few word in the hazy distance: SWTOR*

[Mastablasta]

*squizes the eyes and picks a few word in the hazy distance: SWTOR*

Singleplayer online pay2play with ugly graphics to boot.

[XenonDe]

Those pics are horrible, how can you possibly see that those look better than the old pictures linked here ?? Of course if you like blurred 4:3 resolution images with almost no single distinguishing detail, then its better. Otherwise its lightyears setback from those oldies. I know that we havent seen much of the actual video, and it is hard to judge what will it be like when it goes live. Also, those images prolly have many "shinies" set off, like Dagget mentioned. But if you just post pics here saying "hey, there are NEW pics from engine", then many people will expect to see something new and shiny compared to the ones we have already seen.

Judging purely from a technical standpoint they are an improvement. Remodeled Textures, Models, shading model and so forth. The problem with them isn't the engine but the choosen lightning and shadow composition. Too soft, too blurry, overshadowing every detail. And imo the water doesn't work too well for Tir.
I'm a bit disapointed in the looks but that's not because of the engine but for scene selection/building. Something that should easily be fixable to give the same "hell yeah!" feeling we saw in the old engine. ..Riight fc? Sure wouldn't mind some new pictures!

Btw looking at the cam-corded vid on youtube makes the new engine look better then these screenshots suggest. Just as you said screenshots never do any engine justice.

[Mamman]

Singleplayer online pay2play with ugly graphics to boot.

As unfortunate as it may be that's how most people would describe AO by now.

[Solstiare]

After reading 4 pages of assorted opinions on the new screenshots, I am left with one inescapable conclusion:

The ones of you that kvetch and whine and moan on and on about how bad the new engine looks are full of {it}. If you knew what you were trying to speak of, you would be saying very different things. Go back to WoW or stop talking out of your backside.

[Chrys]

Pretty sure the public judge a graphic engine based on looks, not on technical finepoints of its alleged sophistication by a bunch of fanboi spindoctors

iow, it walks talks and squawks like a pre-Source (c.2005?) engine, whatever else you wanna say about the insides.