Clans and the tower wars.

[trousers]

Although it was OT's disregard of regulations and safety procedures that started this whole affair, so I wouldn't bet that they are too concerned about it now.

Also, when you say "nicer (more expensive) equipment" you should be using the word "Atrox", thats the correct definition after all used by OT scum.

And this is the clan fallacy. The belief that labor standards of hundreds of years ago still apply today. They don't. So quit your goofy ass rebellion already.

[Falikos]

Umm... Was just thinking out loud based on the real life retail companies i know. Whenever there are unions or state safety people up in arms about stuff policy gets added to compensate. I could be interpreting it incorrectly but it seems that at least officially the Clans and to a lesser extent us Neutrals are considered independent businesses per ICC and OT. (at least in terms of the mines, even if everyone sells to OT).

More competition drives prices down usually and while notum is rare on a grand scale it isn't in the scope of the planet side economy. Just pointing out that what a customer pays isn't always what it costs to produce. Id bet a 30-50% margin for both independent miners and OT with anything less being a major margin drain.

Im also assuming the Clan rebellion forced change in business tactics because war is costly and i presume the OT version of HR would be cheaper. I doubt for all the grandstanding that they'd want a war with the clans on a big scale again for cost or for the damage to the company image.

Just an "if it were my business" speculation on my part.

[sistadoc]

Although it was OT's disregard of regulations and safety procedures that started this whole affair, so I wouldn't bet that they are too concerned about it now.

Also, when you say "nicer (more expensive) equipment" you should be using the word "Atrox", thats the correct definition after all used by OT scum.

Awww someones QQ.

[Xeenah]

Maybe it's a good timing to slide in that the 4th Wall forum is an OOC forum? ...Ahem. Back to reading.

[Kotts]

Yeah good point Fali.

[playboyfixer]

big walls of text but i don't agree too much on Trouser's thought of "clan selling cheap, omni reselling expensive".

Right now clans own most of the sites, getting 17.95 out of 25% side xp as it is. If my math doesn't totally fail, recalculating that clans alone has 72% of all notum mining sites in their hands. which means as omni-tek planned to go to rubi-ka to mine 100%, they only mine 28% of their initially (pre-rebellion) quota anymore.

Next to that the neutrals have some sites too, apparently 6.75% side xp, meaning 27% of the sites (if my calculations don't fail).

72%+27% = 99% of notum sites NOT in hands of OT themselves. And having all that notum mining power, i don't think most clans will give omni-tek the benefit of buying low so they can sell high which in turn hurts omni-tek alot, as you can't just put notum miners in an uniform with a gun and have them act as omni AF, they'd need training. Training needs money. They need the outfits too & guns, which cost money. Having all that funding for untrained soldiers training, probably medical costs during training too, with only 1% of the sites yourself, i'm sure we're hurting OT.

Perhaps the only reason OT isn't sending out armies right now to hit us back, is cause the monetary loss it would give right now isn't worth the slim chance of OT getting a major mining site back, to compensate for the costs.

And to say that beside those sites, clans also hold 4 holes

[trousers]

no one has to agree with me, but, if you read the description of 4 Holes it's described as 4 small mines. Read the description of, say, clon**** and it's a Huge notum deposit.

Assuming every mine produces the same amount and quality of notum I would say is a flaw in your math. I may be able to drill and hit Oil in my backyard in Pennsylvania, but it would pale in comparison to the output of a derrick in Texas.

Take Clon**** and then I'll be on board of the Clans having the mining, refining and transporting capabilities to cause Omni-Tek to get nervous.

[Alezander]

All in all i do not belive OT only holds 1% of the mining capacity. I believe there are other open major deep mining facilities open and held by OT.

4 Holes is probably the largest deep mining complex and it is held by the clans. Towers seem more basic surface mining facilities. They probably tap into clear Notum veins near the surface.

Deep mining facilities seem to extract large chunks of Notum mixed with rubble that is then processed and the Notum is extracted. Considering this secondary method yields much larger amounts of Notum, but requires more effort to be invested.

I do not know how much overall mining capacity do the clans and the neutrals hold but either way it needs to be very significant considering considering that there is not a single facility comparable in size to 4 Holes. And as Playboyfixer said clans and Neutrals hold almost all the surface mining sites.

This indeed would put the Clans and Neutrals into a very good position when it comes to negotiating sales prices. Omni Tek is unlikely to cover its contracts without the Notum they buy. And both the Clans and Neuts can permit themselves to simply stop selling Notum for a few months, stockpiling it and arfiticialy raising its value, while OT would probably suffer greatly from its inability to cover contracts (such contracts would most likely include penaulties etc.) Even if it could over its contracts from its own stockpiles that would still hurt OT, as it would see its stockpiles diminish, it would cost much more to refill them, and investors would be very uneasy about seeing the shrinking of OT's stockpiles.

This would probably put OT in a uneasy position where it would have to accept paying more for the Notum they are buying.

OT would probably still make massive profits anyways, but still it would be way less then what they are used to. And i am sure there are plenty of market analists out there in the galaxy just waiting to tell profecies of doom and gloom.

This situation all in all would force OT to react somehow. Its silence and inaction simply reinforces the idea that OT is just unable to do anything about the situation.

[Alezander]

no one has to agree with me, but, if you read the description of 4 Holes it's described as 4 small mines. Read the description of, say, clon**** and it's a Huge notum deposit.

Assuming every mine produces the same amount and quality of notum I would say is a flaw in your math. I may be able to drill and hit Oil in my backyard in Pennsylvania, but it would pale in comparison to the output of a derrick in Texas.

Take Clon**** and then I'll be on board of the Clans having the mining, refining and transporting capabilities to cause Omni-Tek to get nervous.

In game 4 Holes is by size and scale the largest mining operation i have seen anywhere on the planet. The fact that Clon**** holds more or less Notum is largely irrelevant if there is no extraction capacity anywhere in sight. And for a matter of fact, almost all land control surface mining in Clon**** is aparently held by the clans, despite the area being OT heartland.

[Otansaanpas]

In game 4 Holes is by size and scale the largest mining operation i have seen anywhere on the planet.

And public only gets access to small fraction of the planets surface.
I cant tell if there are vastly bigger mines just outside of PW or any other zone.

and having 0% xp-bonus still grants you 100%+0% of the xp..
I dont think OT is in any kind of danger what comes to notum mining (or any other mineral).

and about Clon**** deposit.. it doesn't say the notum is from clon**** nor how long ago the deposit was made.

[Kotts]

Ant kind of documentation on story/lore leading up to or the release of the Notum Wars expansion would be helpful for this discussion Id say.

Where are the old farts when you need them?

[playboyfixer]

lots of interesting stuffzor

Also, by jacking up prices for OT, and / or stockpiling to create inflation (or deflation, the one that raises prices ) Omni-Tek would have to sell higher themselves again too, which would make market speculators have a field day, and most likely make the OT stock markets drop due to concerned investors.

In short thus: win-win situation: win, as clans have most notum and omni doesn't; 2nd win, as OT loses money from investors running off ;D

ps: i don't think ur oil thingie works as well here trousers, as the air here isn't infused with oil, like the RK air is infused with notum. My guess is that the planet has alot of notum both on top as deep down. If itdidn't have much on top OT wouldn't have invested heavily in researching and creating those mining control towers, and rather just build a big deep-drilling installation somewhere

ps @ kotts: i thought ur an old fart

[Kotts]

Hah! Well technically I am I guess. But NW is before my time. Still curious how FC presented NW.

[playboyfixer]

probably as football is presented: kick a ball to run after it

NW: plant a tower to have it destroyed XD

[Xeenah]

*grabs popcorn*

[Alezander]

Well i tried to look back and find some info about the begining of the Notum Wars.

Information that i have managed to dig up so far.

http://www.anarchy-online.com/wsp/an...&table=CONTENT


http://www.anarchy-online.com/wsp/an...&table=CONTENT


If i find anything more ill stick it up here too.

[Kotts]

Alezander, that's exactly the kinda stuff I was thinking about! Thanks!
More tinder for the camp fire!

[playboyfixer]

so stays a bit as alez & i said, we can bump prices up by withholding from omnis, while they "legaly" are the only ones shipping it out (even though smugglers will try their best too )

[Boltgun]

It's more a politic blow then an economic one. Tarkhan Zora came with the promise to take control back on Rubi Ka but now the clans are in charge of ground at the doorstep of Omni 1. This adds to the loss of the mines at 4 holes, OT isn't mining much notum anymore for now.

One thing for sure, the ICC want notum shipped offworld and OT's power is based on it. Even if they are still shipping the notum, the clan have some of the corporation keys on hand and can pressure OT for it, if they agree on what to ask for and how that's it.

[Xeenah]

Let me toss puzzle pieces up, just to see how they gonna fall...


1. Clans control most tower fields
2. The ICC allows Clans to mine under condition that they sell the mined notum to Omni-Tek at pre-determined prices

I'd be curious to see what would happen if, ICly, Clans kept control of the notum towers but refused to mine them... That's not smuggling and nobody can say it's illegal either...

*grin*

Mmm'kay! Done tossin'...