What would fix most of our dear community too, sometimes, is to learn how to play and PvP properly, damn right.
What would fix most of our dear community too, sometimes, is to learn how to play and PvP properly, damn right.
Angevil, proud 220 MA from Rimor.
Flourishing anew. About twelve GUI/Perk/Armor setups done so far, hopefully that one will outlast the criticism of my perfectionism!
Ars Magna. Histories became artifacts, images of poor effect, memories filled with acts and neglect
As a vulture of cultures I indeed feed my seeds with much greed, soaked in pleasure I succeed
Keep it civil in here, and keep it geared towards balance. I don't want to have to come back in here again and go "okay.. where'd this lose itself THIS time..?"
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Do the same thing you have always done when you own all the towers in any range ... wait for them to try to get those towers back. NW is a waiting game. It always has been and a true and prudent NW player has twinks available for any circumstance, regardless of the relevant amounts of activity in any range. Your opponents need to be motivated to play this game as much as you are to get the constancy of activity you are looking for.Originally Posted by Noobius76
Last edited by Obtena; Aug 22nd, 2011 at 20:23:02.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Haha. That's just so sad. If you run a business like that it's going under. And that's exactly why we want change. So that ppl don't leave because some of the parts of the game they enjoy is dead.
But you're against change no matter what to the death as always. One literally can't argue with that kind of fanaticism.
It's not sad, it's how NW has always worked. There are long periods of inactivity, sometimes over most or all TL's, depending on how dejected your opponents are from NW. You know this to be the truth and I have personally seen in on RK2 numerous times. That natural ebb and flow of activity in NW should not be ignored when considering the TL5 issue. TL5 is the hardest level range to have a functioning strategy in AO NW which it attracts the most people. Of course it will suffer the most from this activity wave and the suggestions being put forward serve to diminish or eliminate this sophisticated aspect of TL5 NW. Trade off strategy for increased activity? I don't see a strong correlation between TL5 activity drop off and the existence of TL5 twink killers. Seems to me that gambling with the game's complexity for hopes that it will spark interest in TL5 NW is a losing bet from a higher level perspective.
I'm not opposed to changes but I am opposed to changes where the result is worse than the issue it's trying to fix. I don't want to see a change to the game where TL5 NW PVP becomes specific level, specific profession PVP and nothing else. Is that the cost you would pay to get more TL5 NW? Unfortunately, many of the suggested fixes for this aren't better than the present situation and are coming at the cost of those that manage to work within the current guidelines to play AO.
Last edited by Obtena; Aug 22nd, 2011 at 21:20:27.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Yeah the right for the 20 ppl on each server not to QQ because their 207 twink killers got nerfed is clearly more important than the well being of the tl5 range and the game as a whole.
qft.yeah the right for the 20 ppl on each server not to qq because their 207 twink killers got nerfed is clearly more important than the well being of the tl5 range and the game as a whole.
That's just a matter of opinion really. It's not ONLY about those people who rolled 207 twinks ... it's about everyone that has decided to follow the level guidelines when making NW twinks at any level and also those that appreciate the extra complexities of applying level laddering adds another level of strategic thinking to AO NW PVP. What you believe is best for the whole game isn't necessarily such.Yeah the right for the 20 ppl on each server not to QQ because their 207 twink killers got nerfed is clearly more important than the well being of the tl5 range and the game as a whole.
Last edited by Obtena; Aug 23rd, 2011 at 01:32:40.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
oh geez.
Dude, show me how "balanced" a 207 attacking a 165 is.
It's not about the NW laddering. it's about SL dings being equivalent to 5 1-200 dings.
It's no secret that SL up everything, don't be so blind to the facts when you argue.
Yes, laddering is fine. A level 75 toon who is built to kill 59's is FINE.
At level 59, a very well put together toon would likely be able to do some decent damage on a level 75 toon.
But, at 174 attempting to hit a 219, or, better yet, a 175 attempting to kill a 220?
pff, don't be STUPID.
Top rated twinks at 165 can NOT kill a 207. It requires 4 or 5 toons acting in perfect concert to take down a 207.
At 59, I bet you could take down a 75 easily if two 59's were working together.
That type of laddering is fine. it doesn't involve SL levels.
As SOON as SL dings are included, balance is totally screwed.
Last edited by Anarrina; Aug 25th, 2011 at 04:51:34.
That's never been relevant because that isn't how the ladder leveling rule is determined at any point during AO's existence. It's just simple arithmetic, that is all there is to it. If the level ranges were based on balance, then it would be a heck of alot more complex than the 25% rule.
There has always been some cutoff point in the ladder leveling scheme for PVP levels in AO where level X wasn't balanced against some higher level and smart people doing NW PVP didn't dare exceed that level. You're not saying anything new about that cutoff to any veteran of NW twinking because they dealt with that cutoff (and successfully mind you) in the past. In addition, nothing presently ingame should give you the impression that the cutoff point shouldn't be respected now either. The only barrier here is how badly you have talked yourself into believing how absolutely damaging the cutoff point is for NW PVP at TL5 when in fact, it's always been that way since the beginning of PVP in AO. It's no more a problem now than it was in the past.
Last edited by Obtena; Aug 23rd, 2011 at 04:28:35.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Wrong again.
The reason it's relevant NOW is that BS ranges have prompted people to build toons of this level. And, now, with leveling, research, availability of equipment reaching all time levels of ease of acquiring, it's so easy now to build a toon who is far better equipped than it ever was before, that there is a proliferation of toons who are in the SL ding range with end game or close to end game equipment.
So, your argument fails. You fail to take into account the relevant variables which have only made this an issue in the last 2 years.
The level rules in BS are not related to the ones in NW and the tactics and strategies to win those two encounters are completely different. That association is and always will be nonsensical. The only relation between BS and NW is that they allow for PVP. That doesn't make it a foregone conclusion that the twinks for each of them need to be equivalent in purpose and level. You have done exactly that and it's a bad association that doesn't make the fact that level ranges should be based on balance any more relevant than it was in the past.
If my memory serves me correctly, BS existed BEFORE FC made the extension of the NW PVP ladder leveling rules apply up to 220. If that's correct, those people that made 150+ twinks did it ONLY for BS, not NW, so that argument that they should be able to now safely use BS twinks for NW holds no water at all because it wasn't those people's original intention with those twinks in the first place. It's even more offensive to hear those same people QQ that NW twinkers 'ruined' BS twinkers NW fun by making 207 twinks to win NW. If you want to do BS PVP, you need to make BS twinks and play like you are in BS. If you want to do NW PVP, you need to make NW twinks according to the tactics and strategies employed for NW.
Arguments relating NW and BS PVP levels are just self-serving and that relation has no factual association at all. It's just fabricated to justify your argument.
Last edited by Obtena; Aug 23rd, 2011 at 04:55:22.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
what?
Are you on crack bro?
You're clutching at straws man. Whatever that was you said was just pandering to the gods of verbal diarrhea.
None of what you just said has any relation to the UNARGUABLE fact that SL dings are worth roughly 5 1-200 dings, AND, therefore, and linearity of range overlapping the two ranges will and always will be far out of balance.
Nobody here cares what BS has to do wtih NW. The only reason I mentioned it is because it produced impetus for people to build toons at levels where they normally wouldn't, which, ultimately, due to the totally imbalanced OP'dness of SL dings, makes any toon in RANGE of TL5's completely absurd.
this makes much sense. you guys have my support, as it's what I've been screamin for years now, I just don't think anyone is listening.Yeah the right for the 20 ppl on each server not to QQ because their 207 twink killers got nerfed is clearly more important than the well being of the tl5 range and the game as a whole.
AO: ▐ Renamed 220/30 adv▐ Giit 200/30 NT game over setup▐ Somethiing 199/21 Confused Sold▐ Sixunder 158/21 tard ▐ Eightup 150/20 flex▐ Giitjiit 57/6 NT▐
FFXIV: Giit Paradisian - 50 CNJ/White Mage - Hyperion server
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Since people are loving to troll in here, it has been locked.
Last edited by Haquihana; Aug 25th, 2011 at 01:55:46.
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